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Old
03-06-2013, 05:56 PM
  #276
monster_bertuzzi
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
dang, he scored some 'big' goals? sweet! is fernando pisani still available?
Did Pisani ever literally side-line people with huge hits?

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03-06-2013, 05:58 PM
  #277
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Yeah it's not like he was a huge physical presence for us and scored huge goals or anything...
So you'd take Raffi even with his reputation of not fitting in with the other players, over Higgins? You don't risk divisions in the room for a cross grade of 3rd liners.

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03-06-2013, 06:03 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Garry has been fine, that's the rate for a #4 defenceman as strange as it.

-Sturm signing...horrible
-Kassian and Gragnani for Hodgson and Sulzer...horrible
-Letting Torres walk...horrible
-Letting Ehrhoff walk...horrible
-Samuelsson for Booth..horrible now in hindsight
-Grabner for Ballard...terrible
-Re-signing **** face, err AV long term...horrible
-Leaving the toilet seat up... horrible
-Forgetting to walk his dog.... horrible
Is any mistake he made not horrible to you?

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03-06-2013, 06:24 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Yeah it's not like he was a huge physical presence for us and scored huge goals or anything...
All 3 of them?

Torres hits hard but he's got a reputation and he isn't a great hockey player. Higgins destroys Torres in the ability to actually play the game of hockey.

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Old
03-06-2013, 06:42 PM
  #280
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So you'd take Raffi even with his reputation of not fitting in with the other players, over Higgins? You don't risk divisions in the room for a cross grade of 3rd liners.
Is it so hard to keep both? They're both bottom 6 forwards making under 2 million.

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03-06-2013, 06:43 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Is it so hard to keep both? They're both bottom 6 forwards making under 2 million.
Considering a good source reported that Higgins was going to walk if Torres re-signed, yes.

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03-06-2013, 06:52 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Considering a good source reported that Higgins was going to walk if Torres re-signed, yes.
If that really is true then yes he made the right choice with Higgy. I find that hard to believe, though.

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03-06-2013, 07:12 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Did Pisani ever literally side-line people with huge hits?
i too like it when people are injured for my bloodlust to be geographically associated with a winning team

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Old
03-06-2013, 07:23 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
So much hindsight in this thread. Gillis should seriously get some of that!

Even if some of the moves MG has made turn out to be bad... he still made them for all the right reasons. Can't fault a GM if it goes south for reasons beyond his control. Most of them have been sound hockey moves based on good decisions.

You make the right move time after time, and it'll turn out to have good results more often than not. Pretty simple to understand.


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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Mike Gillis did a couple things that separate him from others. Un orthodox for any GM let alone a rookie.

He traded away 2 fully developed prospects. And so far, the one deal is officially a bust.

And the second one, he basically lost the day he made it depending on your point of view. A Kassian at full potential is not worth as much as a Hodgson at full potential. Naslund was always worth more then Bertuzi. Kane is worth more then Bufuglyn ect.

For all the heat that Burke gets for the Kessel deal, what did we really get in return for two firsts ?
Both trades were made for the right reasons. The reasons have been laid out by previous posters, and I'm not interested in arguing against points propped up by hindsight or fortune-telling.

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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
i too like it when people are injured for my bloodlust to be geographically associated with a winning team
LOL!


Last edited by SoTzuMe: 03-06-2013 at 07:31 PM.
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03-06-2013, 07:42 PM
  #285
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A Kassian at full potential is not worth as much as a Hodgson at full potential. Naslund was always worth more then Bertuzi. Kane is worth more then Bufuglyn ect.
Sure could've used a Kassian at full potential more than a Hodgson at full potential in the Boston series.

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03-06-2013, 08:09 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Considering a good source reported that Higgins was going to walk if Torres re-signed, yes.
That source was Higgins' brother was it not?

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Old
03-06-2013, 08:13 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by me2;61115231
- Kassian for Hodgson... [B
Hodgson should have brought back more. Kassian + 2nd at least or Kassian and exhange of firsts. If we got some decent prospect from the 2nd (ie Petan) and Kassian that'd be fine by me for a guy that wanted out and wasn't playing that well. sometimes you just have to cut and run and the team got about all that anyone was willing to pay[/B]

-Letting Torres walk...rather have Higgins

-Letting Ehrhoff walk...agreed

-Samuelsson for Booth...Loved Samuelsson but he is starting to get injury prone and old and seemed to want out

- I think the reason Gillis didn't get more for Hodgson, aside from Kassian's upside, was that due to timing. Gillis wanted to do the deal right there, BUF didn't have the same focus. To them, getting Hodgson would be great, but they still had the insurance with Roy and Ennis in house, so they could have waited until the offseason as far as bargaining position goes. Not so for Gillis. The timing cost him the extra return IMO.

- Torres also fell into that category of being a dangerous hitter. Similar to Cooke. The Canucks may have wanted to part with that before they had to deal with a much more negative situation down the line.

- Letting Ehrhoff walk will be endlessly debated. Do all players have to follow the "covenant", or do you make exceptions?

- I make that Booth deal again today if offered the choice. One of the best buy low deals Gillis has made IMO. Of course, not everyone will agree.

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Old
03-06-2013, 08:14 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
- I think the reason Gillis didn't get more for Hodgson, aside from Kassian's upside, was that due to timing. Gillis wanted to do the deal right there, BUF didn't have the same focus. To them, getting Hodgson would be great, but they still had the insurance with Roy and Ennis in house, so they could have waited until the offseason as far as bargaining position goes. Not so for Gillis. The timing cost him the extra return IMO.

- Torres also fell into that category of being a dangerous hitter. Similar to Cooke. The Canucks may have wanted to part with that before they had to deal with a much more negative situation down the line.

- Letting Ehrhoff walk will be endlessly debated. Do all players have to follow the "covenant", or do you make exceptions?

- I make that Booth deal again today if offered the choice. One of the best buy low deals Gillis has made IMO. Of course, not everyone will agree.

So do I . Agreed.

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03-06-2013, 08:19 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Sure could've used a Kassian at full potential more than a Hodgson at full potential in the Boston series.
I know.

I wish more people could see a long term here instead of just Hodgson being getting the juiciest minutes with the best players on a lousy team.

There is no doubt that Hodgson -who is an RFA this offseason- will have his Dad..........I mean his agent demand 6 mil or have a hissy fit.

I think it was a mistake for the Sabres to let Hodgson pad his totals in a contract year. But then again, few thought he could get 21 points in 24 games.

And its easier said than done to duplicate this over 82 games for around 70 points but I think Cody can do it if he can continue to improve and has the quality players around him.

We dont need a 70 point center with the Sedins on either wing. And Hodgson aint getting no 70 points nor 40 goals nor Selke trophy from the second line. Ever.

So I wish people could see the win / win for both Hodgson and Kassian.

Zak was not being developed in Buffalo the way he is here. Wait 3 years and see how great he is going to become.

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Old
03-06-2013, 08:20 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Sure could've used a Kassian at full potential more than a Hodgson at full potential in the Boston series.
Better to build your team to beat just one team then 28 others right?

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Old
03-06-2013, 08:24 PM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Sure could've used a Kassian at full potential more than a Hodgson at full potential in the Boston series.

Kassian at full potential will be a player only matched by 4 or 5 players in the league.

I think Hodgson is actually at or close to his full potential right now. Focusing more on defense will invariably detract from his offensive game as well. His physical attributes won't improve significantly due to a limitation in size and speed. So the natural area to improve will be on defense.

Another thing: It's not a Kane vs. Byfuglien debate. Hodgson isn't a premium talent like that. It's more like Pavelski vs. Byfuglien. Based on that evaluation, I'm taking Byfuglien every time. No one player has add as much to do with this team losing in the 2nd round in 2009 and 2010, than him.

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Old
03-06-2013, 08:41 PM
  #292
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Honestly, even in hindsight, it was not that bad of deal.
Grabner was quickly waived, and Bernier lasted less than a year with the team.
As of now, it is Howden for Ballard, a prospect for a NHL player.
If you look at it that way, it is not great, but it is also not terrible.
If Ballard is bought out this summer, would the deal then be Howden for nothing? How a player is handled after a deal is irrelevant to the deal itself.

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03-06-2013, 08:46 PM
  #293
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If Ballard is bought out this summer, would the deal then be Howden for nothing? How a player is handled after a deal is irrelevant to the deal itself.
Exactly. The deal stands as it was made. Grabner being waived is irrelevant.

The only realistic way the trade becomes a "win" now is if we get a new coach who gets better hockey out of Ballard.

As it stands, losing Mitchell that year and taking on Ballard is a painful thought to bear.

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03-06-2013, 08:49 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
I know.

I wish more people could see a long term here instead of just Hodgson being getting the juiciest minutes with the best players on a lousy team.

There is no doubt that Hodgson -who is an RFA this offseason- will have his Dad..........I mean his agent demand 6 mil or have a hissy fit.

I think it was a mistake for the Sabres to let Hodgson pad his totals in a contract year. But then again, few thought he could get 21 points in 24 games.

And its easier said than done to duplicate this over 82 games for around 70 points but I think Cody can do it if he can continue to improve and has the quality players around him.

We dont need a 70 point center with the Sedins on either wing. And Hodgson aint getting no 70 points nor 40 goals nor Selke trophy from the second line. Ever.

So I wish people could see the win / win for both Hodgson and Kassian.

Zak was not being developed in Buffalo the way he is here. Wait 3 years and see how great he is going to become.
Cody has played great for Buff. His offense would be welcomed in Vancouver and every other team in the NHL. No way does Kassian look better as a player than Cody. Hodgson ceiling is so much higher and to say Buff was not developing Zak is just nonsense

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03-06-2013, 08:53 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
Gillis shouldn't get anymore credit for signing Hamhius than Nonis got for signing Mitchell. Malhotra is another Gillis blunder, he could've signed him the year before he did for under 1 million, probably would've helped against the Hawks more than Wellwood did.

Gillis sure gets a lot of credit for a guy that's made no core moves and no coaching changes in 5 years and has just rode along riding the core that was already here and moving around the depth pieces.

Look at our best two lines tonight:

Sedin Sedin Burrows

Hansen Raymond Higgins



ONE of those 6 players is a Gills addition. This is 5 years since he got here and all the guys producing were already here. Both goalies were already here, can't seem to win without Bieksa and he was here, Edler plays the big minutes he was here.

AV works with what Gillis gives him. Which are basically depth players and guys from Florida.
In all fairness to Gillis when you pick that low in the draft its very hard to find gems

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Old
03-06-2013, 08:59 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
Cody has played great for Buff. His offense would be welcomed in Vancouver and every other team in the NHL. No way does Kassian look better as a player than Cody. Hodgson ceiling is so much higher and to say Buff was not developing Zak is just nonsense
Hodgson is a talented young centre, with excellent offensive skills and a defensive skill set which could be improved but with his high IQ and work ethic i don't see his lack in D hindering him for too long. You don't find players with the type of vision and offensive awareness like Hodgson has too often.

We are hopping that kassian turns into a Lucic type of player, with his play right now, i see potential of that happening, but it's getting smaller and smaller

The thing that screws with me the most is that, fine if it was deemed that we HAD to trade Hodgson, why didn't we wait until draft day to get more or during the off season? We were lacking in secondary scoring, then we trade away our best choice for secondary scoring. Then play the player we traded for, for 4th line minutes. Not to mention Kassian wasn't and still isn't that great offensively.


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03-06-2013, 09:22 PM
  #297
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I’m neutral on Gillis.

Ultimately, his performance ought to be judged by the club’s winning percentage while he is at the helm. By that record it doesn’t get much better in the GM fraternity, him just missing the ultimate prize notwithstanding. The specifics--who was here before, who was drafted, traded for, dealt, and even signed for what amounts/terms--doesn’t really matter, so long as the owner is cool.

But if we must get into specifics:

Drating - way too early to tell. 4-5 years after being drafted Sedins were still rated as 3rd liners.

Contract signings – very good save for Lou’s deal, which we don’t know if the driving force was management or ownership.

FA signings – good. And even if the D men were hell bend on coming here anyway, MG helped with the winning environment that encouraged them further. Sturm ought not be mentioned since he was rectified immediately. Tanev is like getting a home run out of an 8th round pick.

Trades – less than stellar to poor, at the moment, but this can change depending on how the Kassian for Hodgson (even now the comparison must be K’s current PPG to H’s last year numbers) and the impending goalie move turns out, which won’t be known for years, more so if we get back pick(s).

If Luango is given away for scraps and it indeed turnd out that Bozak, Kadri and a pick were on the table last summer, and Lou nixing it wasn’t the reason it didn’t go down, then it will get ugly. We’ll never know, I guess, but then Lou strikes me as the type that may one day write a tell-all.

-Ballard – bad trade in hindsight. MG needs to get on the same page with his coach or make changes behind the bench.

-Booth – either good or neutral since he cost us nothing. Even if he’s bought out, I rate it as a neutral/lateral move. Every argument that so-and-so takes up cap space presupposes you landing someone who gives better bang for the bucks at that time. It can’t be proven.

Again, club’s current winning percentage trumps all.

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Old
03-06-2013, 09:36 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
Cody has played great for Buff. His offense would be welcomed in Vancouver and every other team in the NHL. No way does Kassian look better as a player than Cody. Hodgson ceiling is so much higher and to say Buff was not developing Zak is just nonsense
What do you think Hodgson's ceiling is?

His offense would be welcome, his defense... eh, not so much.

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Old
03-06-2013, 10:07 PM
  #299
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Exactly. The deal stands as it was made. Grabner being waived is irrelevant.

The only realistic way the trade becomes a "win" now is if we get a new coach who gets better hockey out of Ballard.

As it stands, losing Mitchell that year and taking on Ballard is a painful thought to bear.
You could make the case that ballard cost us ehrhoff but not really mitchell. Malkin hit cost mitchell as well as a myopic focus on getting two way play from all 6 d....which never materialized with ballard.

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03-07-2013, 01:05 AM
  #300
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-Samuelsson for Booth...Loved Samuelsson but he is starting to get injury prone and old and seemed to want out
I seem to recall Samuelsson being upset at being traded.

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