HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > St. Louis Blues
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Jake Allen recalled

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-06-2013, 01:14 PM
  #51
MattyMo35
Moderator
Schwartz Be With You
 
MattyMo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 7,278
vCash: 50
It may not really mean anything to any goalie other than that Jaro and Ells are not getting the job done currently, and they're bringing in a guy that was able to get the job done is his short stint. Allen wasn't spectacular when he was here, but he made the easy saves and also came up with some very timely saves at crucial periods. He gave us a chance to win in each of his games. I guess we'll just wait and see how this works.

MattyMo35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 02:10 PM
  #52
intangible
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 836
vCash: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
Stats don't tell everything. I'm seriously wondering how you guys can still defend Halak after these years? He IS NOT a #1 goalie, flat out. I've said it since he's been here and gotten a lot of flack from friends who just bring up his ONE playoff performence.
Nice to see someone else not drinking Koolaid.

We have two average goalies. Halak is better than Elliott, but when you're talking average, does it even matter? At Halak's price he should be a starter, and we've given him such a role, but he isn't skilled enough for it. That's the reality we have to deal with. I don't know how it will change, if it ever will, but if he wants to keep his job he better get his act together, both mentally and physically.

intangible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 02:41 PM
  #53
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 7,322
vCash: 714
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
All I'm saying is it's a function of the true (not the sound bites for the paper) feeling in the Blues' organization about Halak. If they don't believe he's the guy it's a terrible waste of money. And if they don't believe he's the guy how much worse could the consequences be of going with Elliott/Allen the rest of the season IF they don't believe in Halak's mental makeup, or health, or whatever.
I think you're grasping at straws a bit here. Halak isn't having a fabulous season, but he's playing a lot better than Elliott.

To me, the most damning moment was right after Halak was pulled last night, when Elliott came in, the body language of the team looked like they KNEW they were going to lose. They have zero confidence playing in front of Elliott. Between that moment, and the Dallas game, after having almost a month to try and pull it together, I just don't see how they have time with 26 games left to give Elliott more starts in the NHL this season unless there is no alternative.

I like Elliott, and I think he'll get back into form, but I'm not convinced he can do it this season in the role as a backup. The team's psyche is too fragile right now, which is its own issue, but solid goaltending is all the more important.

The one stretch where the team started to get back to playing the defensive game, aggressive forecheck, and quit running around on defense with everyone trying to do everyone else's jobs was the stretch when Allen was starting.

If Allen continues playing with confidence, and the team wins some games, I see Elliott being exposed to waivers when some of the forwards get healthy and need a spot back in the line-up. He may get another start before that happens, but I think he may have already had it. I'm really not sure anyone will pick him up....but I think the Blues are in a position where there is no more choice about the matter unless they're willing to sacrifice this season.

Silver lining: IF the team gets back to playing the Blues hockey we became accustomed to last season, they'll enter the post-season with little pressure on them. Maybe that allows them to have a better run?

2 Minute Minor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 03:05 PM
  #54
BlueDream
Registered User
 
BlueDream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 6,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
Stats don't tell everything. I'm seriously wondering how you guys can still defend Halak after these years? He IS NOT a #1 goalie, flat out. I've said it since he's been here and gotten a lot of flack from friends who just bring up his ONE playoff performence.

He's had the starting job for his 3rd year now and still has yet to show that he can be THAT go to guy. I'm done with excuses, he's not a number one goalie and never will be.
I agree with you. And even that one playoff performance gets way overblown. He had some good games but also got pulled a couple times.

It's hilarious how much worse Halak is than guys like Quick, Rinne, etc. It's not even close. Halak can't carry this team to the Cup, and as much as the whole team deserves blame for the **** that happened last night, that doesn't happen to goalies like Rinne. Halak (and Elliott) were both awful.

It's about time people realize that we are not that strong in net. Halak is just not that good...He's an average starter really. I never understood how people were so mesmerized by him.

BlueDream is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 03:14 PM
  #55
TheOrganist
Don't Call Him Alex
 
TheOrganist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,875
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
To me, the most damning moment was right after Halak was pulled last night, when Elliott came in, the body language of the team looked like they KNEW they were going to lose. They have zero confidence playing in front of Elliott.
They knew they were going to lose because a mentally weak team was shell shocked after witnessing a two goal lead evaporate in stunning fashion.

Had nothing to do with Elliott entering the game.

While it's true they have no confidence in Elliott, that team was fried last night even if Glenn Hall replaced Halak.

TheOrganist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 03:54 PM
  #56
Mike Liut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 5,477
vCash: 50
Blues don't need Hasak in his prime type of goal tending, just somebody who makes all the normal saves and some occasional great ones, and somebody who doesn't wilt under adversity. Is that too much to ask for?

Mike Liut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 04:09 PM
  #57
Use the Schwartz*
****in' eh
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,513
vCash: 500
Hurricanes need a goalie. Think we can trade Elliot and our first rounderforthenexttenyears for Jeff Skinner??

Use the Schwartz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 04:22 PM
  #58
ItsOnlytheRiver
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
I agree with you. And even that one playoff performance gets way overblown. He had some good games but also got pulled a couple times.

It's hilarious how much worse Halak is than guys like Quick, Rinne, etc. It's not even close. Halak can't carry this team to the Cup, and as much as the whole team deserves blame for the **** that happened last night, that doesn't happen to goalies like Rinne. Halak (and Elliott) were both awful.

It's about time people realize that we are not that strong in net. Halak is just not that good...He's an average starter really. I never understood how people were so mesmerized by him.
Not that I disagree with your premise, but you do realize Rinne got yanked against the Kings the night before our game right?

ItsOnlytheRiver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 04:38 PM
  #59
tfriede2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Coleman View Post
Hurricanes need a goalie. Think we can trade Elliot and our first rounderforthenexttenyears for Jeff Skinner??
Hurricanes' GM would be fired if he makes that trade. (Edit: Aaaaand...I see the white font now, haha...touche).

tfriede2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 04:55 PM
  #60
2 Minute Minor
Hi Keeba!
 
2 Minute Minor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Temple, Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 7,322
vCash: 714
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOrganist View Post
They knew they were going to lose because a mentally weak team was shell shocked after witnessing a two goal lead evaporate in stunning fashion.

Had nothing to do with Elliott entering the game.

While it's true they have no confidence in Elliott, that team was fried last night even if Glenn Hall replaced Halak.
Its arguable why the team had such poor body language at that point in last night's game, but as many others have noted in this thread and elsewhere, the team plays with less confidence when Elliott is in net (as compared with the last couple starts by Allen). I'm not even going to draw the comparison with Halak, but even just with Allen in there they look more into it.

2 Minute Minor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 05:20 PM
  #61
diehardbluesfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 765
vCash: 500
People realize Rinne has been sub par the last week or so? Obviously a small sample size, but he hasn't carried his team deep into the playoffs either like Quick or King Lundquist.

The blues aren't giving up a bunch of shots, but they are giving up a lot of quality shots which is the exact opposite of last year where Halak and Elliott didn't see a bunch of quality shots.

Once the team defense gets better, I believe we will see the goaltending improve. Hopefully that starts with Allen tomorrow night.

diehardbluesfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 05:28 PM
  #62
TheOrganist
Don't Call Him Alex
 
TheOrganist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,875
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Its arguable why the team had such poor body language at that point in last night's game, but as many others have noted in this thread and elsewhere, the team plays with less confidence when Elliott is in net (as compared with the last couple starts by Allen).
Ya, they do. It just wasn't relatable to what happened last night.

Quote:
I'm not even going to draw the comparison with Halak, but even just with Allen in there they look more into it.
I agree and I'm sure that was part of Armstrong's thinking with making this move. In fact he said as much in the article JR posted this morning.

TheOrganist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 05:34 PM
  #63
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
I think you're grasping at straws a bit here. Halak isn't having a fabulous season, but he's playing a lot better than Elliott.

To me, the most damning moment was right after Halak was pulled last night, when Elliott came in, the body language of the team looked like they KNEW they were going to lose. They have zero confidence playing in front of Elliott. Between that moment, and the Dallas game, after having almost a month to try and pull it together, I just don't see how they have time with 26 games left to give Elliott more starts in the NHL this season unless there is no alternative.

I like Elliott, and I think he'll get back into form, but I'm not convinced he can do it this season in the role as a backup. The team's psyche is too fragile right now, which is its own issue, but solid goaltending is all the more important.

The one stretch where the team started to get back to playing the defensive game, aggressive forecheck, and quit running around on defense with everyone trying to do everyone else's jobs was the stretch when Allen was starting.

If Allen continues playing with confidence, and the team wins some games, I see Elliott being exposed to waivers when some of the forwards get healthy and need a spot back in the line-up. He may get another start before that happens, but I think he may have already had it. I'm really not sure anyone will pick him up....but I think the Blues are in a position where there is no more choice about the matter unless they're willing to sacrifice this season.

Silver lining: IF the team gets back to playing the Blues hockey we became accustomed to last season, they'll enter the post-season with little pressure on them. Maybe that allows them to have a better run?
If the argument is that the team had a letdown seeing Elliott coming in and THEN thinking they were going to lose, I can't agree. If that's not the argument I apologize for misunderstanding.

Halak let in 4 straight goals, was poor and got pulled. By the time it was 4-4 it felt over, especially with that tying goal being so soft. Elliott actually came in and made a stellar save or two (it's in the GDT) and the goal he allowed was a point blank slot shot that I don't fault him for allowing.

Again, I'm not saying Halak is definitely going to be moved. All I'm saying is that snap-recalling Jake Allen last night is clearly not directed at Elliott, it's clearly directed at both guys. Everyone's save percentage is terrible. And it is certainly possible something is up with Halak and his gimpy play (since he arrived he's been gimpy at key times each year) and the team's dissatisfaction with that.

Halak's actual salary has crept way up there. Did you guys realize Halak is the team's highest salary this year? He's second highest next year (Backes 4.75M, Halak 4.5M). He's no longer a goaltender on the cheap – he's paid like a #1 but he isn't performing that way. Elliott is paid like a backup and he's performing that way and worse. If a guy like Mike Smith for 2M/yr can be found in free agency, on a budget team they can't pay a #1 4.5M and him not perform at least up to standards that will allow the team to compete. I see a lot of insistence that Halak is #1 but not a lot of realization he's getting paid 2.5x what Elliott is making and posting an .884, which is dreadful. Organizationally, if someone made an offer for Halak that was solid value, you get value back AND clear your largest salary off the books when it isn't providing a return.

PocketNines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 05:39 PM
  #64
diehardbluesfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 765
vCash: 500
Elliott will be moved before Halak IMO

diehardbluesfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 07:18 PM
  #65
superblues
I'm being sarcastic.
 
superblues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,628
vCash: 50
I like the way P9 thinks.

superblues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 07:20 PM
  #66
Hodgy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,238
vCash: 500
What teams would give up anything for Elliott? Hell, he may even clear waivers.

Hodgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 07:44 PM
  #67
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
What this team needs is Halak to play 10 out of the next 13 games and post a .920 save percentage average, because this team does limit shots against and they'd win most of those 10 games. He does something like that, he's the clear #1, he's the stabilizer, he's a team leader. He doesn't have to post shutouts every night, just give the team a chance to win and allow an average of 2 goals on the 25 shots the team will allow.

The goaltending job is wide open between three guys right now IMO. As long as nobody's posting even a .900, trust me, it's wide open. Whoever gets their **** together first gets the job. All three of these guys should understand that and I think that's the message sent with the callup. The Blues MUST make the playoffs and get some extra revenue or this rebuild is going to start heading in reverse.

PocketNines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 07:50 PM
  #68
STL Blues Fan
Registered User
 
STL Blues Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 444
vCash: 50
Halak for sure needs to prove something. It's going to be awhile hopefuuly for Elliot to get another cause Allen and Halak will be doing well. Hopefully...

STL Blues Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 07:52 PM
  #69
france62
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 66
vCash: 500
Jeremy Rutherford ‏@jprutherford

Not a news flash here but Jake Allen will start in goal for #stlblues tomorrow against #coyotes

france62 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 09:29 PM
  #70
DeuceNine
Wall of Shame
 
DeuceNine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Stymieville
Country: United States
Posts: 390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Right but they called up a third goalie tonight and that can't have been pointed at Elliott, it's pointed at both of them not getting the job done. Which is actual evidence they don't like the job Halak is doing. Same with Elliott. But Halak might have more trade value and he costs way more, so while they're big ifs, there's enough smoke to speculate about the source of the fire. Doesn't mean it's going to happen, just exploring the possible different thought processes here. We all pretty much agree "something" needs to be done but there's a hell of a lot of disagreement about what that something is, because it's not completely obvious even to veteran, close observers of the team.
Took two pages but someone said it.

The issue is, Elliott can be a backup, and a serviceable one at that. He doesn't need to be a 1A like last year and really, never played like he could be that prior to last season anyway. Halak OTOH is expensive, "should" be a starter somewhere, but isn't cracking the nut right now. Give Allen another shot. He's going to play well enough not to lose, because it's clear he has the ability and isn't comfortable like these other two.

As an edit, goalies know that facing too few shots can be harder than facing 40 a night. We just may have two guys that can't concentrate for 60 minutes like we need them to. That is also a goalie skill, and maybe Allen has it. We'll see.

DeuceNine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 09:37 PM
  #71
Bluesman91
Registered User
 
Bluesman91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,635
vCash: 2357
Do you guys truly believe Halak is the goalie for this team? In his 3 years he still has not shown he can be a true #1 goalie. Yes he has flashes but he is not consistent and can't play as many games to be considered a true #1.

Bluesman91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 10:04 PM
  #72
Robb_K
Registered User
 
Robb_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NordHolandNethrlands
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,622
vCash: 500
The bottom line is that IF The Blues can return to playing like they did last season (2-way puck possession game) while regaining their confidence and edge, Halak will play adequately, and Elliott will be a costly luxury at his salary. Allen is ready to be The Blues' NHL backup, especially given that Halak has proven he's only good for about 50 games a season, at most. THIS season is already at a critical point. The Blues need every point possible. Right now, Allen seems to give them the best possibility of winning a game (or, at least as good a chance as Halak, and MUCH, MUCH, BETTER, than Elliott. So, playing Allen right now is the best move.


Last edited by Robb_K: 03-06-2013 at 10:45 PM.
Robb_K is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 10:35 PM
  #73
Mike Liut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 5,477
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb_K View Post
The Blues' problems this season have been caused by a combination of several different things:

1) Key players not having played during the lockout (Halak (1 game only), Elliott, Backes, Oshie, McDonald, Perron, Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Jackman)

2) Extended injuries to key players (McDonald, Steen, Tarasenko and Halak), -(3 of their Top 6 forwards, at the same time).

3) Langenbrunner and Arnott becoming too old, Langenbrunner hurt, the too old veterans replaced by rookies (Schwartz & Tarasenko) -leaving team with a lack of enough veteran calmness (especially with McDonald being out for a long time, and Nichol's game fading, similarly to Langenbrunner's.

4) Key rookies couldn't get integrated into the team's system, and lines didn't get enough prep time due to no pre-season, and the loss of the first 34 season games. Teams with set lines from last season have an extreme advantage over teams that are adding 2-3 Top 9 forwards.

5) Tarasenko's arrival helped spur a "slaughter" victory in the first game. He continued his good scoring in the first several games. The Blues started believing that he is a "budding superstar", and would help make their formerly ordinary "teamwork offence" a potent one. They felt that with their smothering defence/puck possession game of last season, plus their new, "potent" offence 9proven in the first few games, they'd be almost unbeatable. So, they felt (subconsciously) that all they had to do was step out onto the ice, and they'd win almost every game. They "forgot" to play Hitchcock's 2-way, defensibly responsible game. The fact that they were seemingly able to score very easily, led to another problem -leading the players (especially those playing for new contracts-but really including everyone) to TRY to add as many points as possible to their scoring totals). This led to much risky pinching, getting caught up ice and hanging back in the offensive zone, causing many more quality scoring opportunities for the opponents.

6) The results of #4 put added pressure on Halak and Elliott (in addition to their having had no pre-season and needing to use the first 2 months to "train"), causing them to lose confidence and not get in a "groove". So, Elliott has basically collapsed, and Halak has been very inconsistent.

7) The forwards' not getting back on defence, defencemen's ill-advised pinching and staying too long deep in the offensive zone (overall lack of team defence) and deterioration of the puck possession game (due to unsettled lines-addition of new players and lack of pre-season) has led to more possession by opponents in The Blues' defensive zone, and more goals against.

8) Arbitrariness of penalty calling by the referees hurts the formerly physical Blues more than the "finesse-style" teams. That has hurt The Blues' team defence and forecheck (especially the games of Backes, Oshie, and Polak, and has even hurt Pietrangelo's effectiveness).

9) ALL OF THE ABOVE- combines to lead to less confidence for the goalies, and overall team confidence. They suffer mental letdowns. Hockey is a TEAM sport. Mental attitude is VERY important. The Blues have a VERY FRAGILE mental condition related to confidence, which translates into lack of necessary confidence for sustained high-level play and sustained winning.

10) The Blues could still benefit a lot from having at least one, if not 2 difference-making scorers, who can manufacture offence on their own. Tarasenko may become one. But, he's not there yet, and his getting injured just sets that process back. They could use a top-scoring, super-all-around centre, as well(could be the difference-making sniper as well-but better if separate player, and good setup man).

11) The Blues need more size, weight and strength on the defensive line, especially a #1 shift crease-clearer (who can also bring the puck up ice and skate it out of trouble and make breakout passes). With the new "criteria" for calling interference penalties, their lightweight group of defencemen is more vulnerable than it was last season.

12) The Blues "sneaked up" on many teams last season (especially feeding on Eastern Conference teams-to pad their great won/lost ratio). The Kings "showed" the other teams that pressuring The Blues' weakest defencemen deep in their own zone would lead to many turnovers, and reverse The Blues' puck possession dominance, to lead to many scoring chances.

Summation: ALL of these factors have combined to keep The Blues from playing their successful puck-possession game, and therefoe, from getting the results they got last regular season.


Very well stated. Couldn't agree more with every point.

Mike Liut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 10:37 PM
  #74
Robb_K
Registered User
 
Robb_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NordHolandNethrlands
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Liut View Post
Very well stated. Couldn't agree more with every point.
But you neglected to point out that I put this voluminous post on THE WRONG THREAD! It's hell getting old!

Robb_K is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2013, 10:46 PM
  #75
Robb_K
Registered User
 
Robb_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NordHolandNethrlands
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,622
vCash: 500
I moved that long post to its proper thread: "What's Wrong With The Blues?"

Robb_K is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.