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Old
03-06-2013, 09:13 PM
  #76
Arkham32
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Originally Posted by tjcurrie View Post
I seriously doubt we'd be looking at a goalie, but I'm still interested in Ben Bishop as I was last year at this time. Not very confident in Bachman or Nihlstorp. I'd like a little more stability between Kari and Jack. Having someone we're a little more confident in to give Kari a bit more rest here and there isn't a bad idea either. Ottawa got him for a 2nd last year and that pi**es me off.
I don't think its the goaltending, its more the defence and how bad it is. Kari just cleans up for it and hides how bad it really is. If Bachman or Nihlstorp struggle like this next season then I am all for getting a new backup

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Old
03-06-2013, 09:18 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by MANN99 View Post
I don't think its the goaltending, its more the defence and how bad it is. Kari just cleans up for it and hides how bad it really is. If Bachman or Nihlstorp struggle like this next season then I am all for getting a new backup
I know the defense is an issue, but I still don't have much faith in either of those two. I really wanted Bishop last year and I'm still on that boat. I think he stabilizes things on the depth chart between Kari and Jack. At the very least, no more, "If Kari gets hurt we're screwed." worries. And no more playing the heck outta him out of hesitancy to put in the backup for a game or two. And dare I say, he possibly even outperforms Kari at times? Nothing wrong with that.


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03-06-2013, 09:26 PM
  #78
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I'm on board with Tj. Bishop would be awesome to have on this team and can't believe he only costed the Sens a second round pick. And he's a giant, Nieuwy likes his tall players

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03-06-2013, 09:28 PM
  #79
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Bishop would be wasted backing up Kari. Even if he only cost a 2nd, that wouldn't be a good way to manage assets.

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03-06-2013, 09:35 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
Bishop would be wasted backing up Kari. Even if he only cost a 2nd, that wouldn't be a good way to manage assets.
If you have a guy who can play 25 games allowing Kari proper rest, I don't see how that's a waste. Right now I don't feel all that confident in playing either of the others in 5-10 games, and I doubt management does either. That's a problem, unless your goalie is Martin Brodeur.

And let's say Bishop proves he can be a starter and even outperforms Kari a lot of nights, then you have options. What are out options now? Play Kari 70+ games?

I think the only problem would be Bishop may not want to sign on to be a backup.

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03-06-2013, 09:46 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcurrie View Post
If you have a guy who can play 25 games allowing Kari proper rest, I don't see how that's a waste. Right now I don't feel all that confident in playing either of the others in 5-10 games, and I doubt management does either. That's a problem, unless your goalie is Martin Brodeur.

And let's say Bishop proves he can be a starter and even outperforms Kari a lot of nights, then you have options. What are out options now? Play Kari 70+ games?

I think the only problem would be Bishop may not want to sign on to be a backup.
So the Stars get Bishop for next year and he is either a great success the team can flip or about as effective as Bachman/Nihlstorp?

Speculating on Bishop doesn't make sense for this team, and there should be plenty of moderately washed up backups in the Vokoun/Theodore mold available as UFAs if Nihlstop/Bachman doesn't cut it.

I get what you are saying about giving Kari a rest, but this team needs fixes elsewhere more than it needs a goalie who is projected to be a good starter at the same time Campbell is getting ready to take the reigns.

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03-06-2013, 09:50 PM
  #82
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I think bachman can if defense wasn't so horrible, last season he played 18 games and went 8-5-1 and a .910. He did also save us last season when kari went done and raycroft couldn't handle being a starter

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03-06-2013, 09:54 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by MANN99 View Post
I think bachman can if defense wasn't so horrible, last season he played 18 games and went 8-5-1 and a .910. He did also save us last season when kari went done and raycroft couldn't handle being a starter
Have you seen him play this season? He looks totally lost in net. He gave the team a boost when he replaced Raycroft, but he was a drop way down when he replaced Kari.

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03-06-2013, 09:57 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
So the Stars get Bishop for next year and he is either a great success the team can flip or about as effective as Bachman/Nihlstorp?

Speculating on Bishop doesn't make sense for this team, and there should be plenty of moderately washed up backups in the Vokoun/Theodore mold available as UFAs if Nihlstop/Bachman doesn't cut it.
It's a little more than speculation. He's already proving to be much better than either Bachman or Nihlstorp. And it doesn't even have to be him we flip. If he continues to prove himself it could make Kari moveable one day. Sounds crazy to say right now, but that's what adding depth can do for you. Like the situation in Vancouver. It just gives you options. The guy is only 26.

Are you confident in the current backups if Kari God forbid goes down for an extended period? I'm not. Are you confident in giving him a rest every few games? I'm not. Do you not think that rest could benefit a guy like Kari? I do. I'm not confident in either of our backups. At all.

I don't get the hesitance in adding goaltending talent and depth to the organization. If in fact he costs us a 2nd, I'm not too worried. The odds are against a guy picked in the 2nd and Bishop is already proving to be NHL talent.


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03-06-2013, 10:01 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
Have you seen him play this season? He looks totally lost in net. He gave the team a boost when he replaced Raycroft, but he was a drop way down when he replaced Kari.
There is always going to be a drop off when you go from a elite goalie to a backup, but Bachman has proven to be a quality backup in the past and I think he can return to that form in a normal season with a better defence in front of him. Especially when the only practice before the season started he got was 4 games in the ahl.

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03-06-2013, 10:04 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by MANN99 View Post
There is always going to be a drop off when you go from a elite goalie to a backup, but Bachman has proven to be a quality backup in the past and I think he can return to that form in a normal season with a better defence in front of him. Especially when the only practice before the season started he got was 4 games in the ahl.
Can you ever see Bachman being a starter?

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03-06-2013, 10:16 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by tjcurrie View Post
Can you ever see Bachman being a starter?
no but I'd rather have a quality backup for years to come over a goalie who could leave in a year or two because of starter potential especially when we have Campbell developing in the AHL there really isn't need for a goalie with starter potential.

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03-06-2013, 10:17 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by tjcurrie View Post
It's a little more than speculation. He's already proving to be much better than either Bachman or Nihlstorp. And it doesn't even have to be him we flip. If he continues to prove himself it could make Kari moveable one day. Sounds crazy to say right now, but that's what adding depth can do for you. Like the situation in Vancouver. It just gives you options. The guy is only 26.

Are you confident if Kari God forbid goes down for an extended period? Are you confident in giving him a rest every few games? Do you not think that rest could benefit a guy like Kari? Right now I'm not confident in either of our backups. At all.

I don't get the hesitance in adding goaltending talent and depth to the organization. If in fact he costs us a 2nd, I'm not too worried. The odds are against a guy picked in the 2nd and Bishop is already proving to be NHL talent.
And we can sign a backup UFA with significantly more experience than Bishop without giving up assets. I agree that the backup situation is bad, but the Stars don't need a long term option that is a sure thing to whatever extent you think Bishop is.

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03-06-2013, 10:23 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
And we can sign a backup UFA with significantly more experience than Bishop without giving up assets. I agree that the backup situation is bad, but the Stars don't need a long term option that is a sure thing to whatever extent you think Bishop is.
I'm just high on the guy and I have been for over a year now. And I like the prospect of potential options he could give us down the road as opposed to an older vet like Theodore, Vokoun, Hedberg, etc. If in fact that costs a 2nd, I do it. I know we've snagged some nice 2nd rounders in recent years, but really those guys are the exception, not the rule. If Bishop is sitting there in the 2nd round and I know what I know about him now, I draft him. That's the way I look at it.

I'm pretty high on the guy and I'm looking at both right now and a couple years down the road, guess that's the difference here.

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03-06-2013, 10:27 PM
  #90
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With our defense, the only goalies besides Kari that I'd be comfortable with won't be getting moved anytime soon, if ever.

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03-06-2013, 10:31 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
With our defense, the only goalies besides Kari that I'd be comfortable with won't be getting moved anytime soon, if ever.
I think either way, he's better than what we have for backups and that's only a good thing. Winning an extra 1-3 games has meant the difference between playoffs and no playoffs recently. Besides, when/if the defense does improve, I'd like him on board. I think he's good enough to push Kari and I don't see the other two remotely close to that.

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03-06-2013, 10:37 PM
  #92
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Give Nilstrop some time. He'll be more than capable as a back-up. Ability isn't the issue with him.

Now a good argument would be wanting someone younger and more proven than him. But Nilstrop will be a fine back-up if you just give him a bit of time. Bachman should be too, IMO, not sure what's wrong with him this year.

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03-06-2013, 11:26 PM
  #93
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Friedman had a recent article about analytics in the NHL, with some good quotes from our Assistant GM:

Quote:
"Do we have a formula to evaluate players?" Provenzano pauses. "We do ... And the question is do we have confidence in it to apply it yet? Not really ... We're working to get models that are more predictive at a higher confidence."

"Each variable has an element of error to it. That starts to add up, so it's full of uncertainty. The Holy Grail is to... find a model that brings you more goals and more wins."
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...tatistics.html

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03-06-2013, 11:40 PM
  #94
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I don't think even the best "analytical" front offices in any sport have a model that they use to determine the value of players. That's stuff for the internet to sell subscriptions. From what I understand about the way that teams like the Tampa Bay Rays and the Houston Rockets work is that they use certain statistical measures to identify interesting players and then have their scouts concentrate on those guys (whether they are prospects or on another professional league) to get a better picture of what they can bring to the table.

I'm just glad to hear that they are actually doing work in this area. It's a field that the Vancouver Canucks have basically had to themselves for the last 5 years and only now do you hear about (some) other teams looking into it.

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03-07-2013, 10:13 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Give Nilstrop some time. He'll be more than capable as a back-up. Ability isn't the issue with him.

Now a good argument would be wanting someone younger and more proven than him. But Nilstrop will be a fine back-up if you just give him a bit of time. Bachman should be too, IMO, not sure what's wrong with him this year.
I'm interested in Bishop because I feel he's not only a better option for a backup, but I really feel he can be a good starter. I know people would question, "Why would you want another starter? We have Kari." A better question would be why not? Options my friend.

Can't see us doing it, but I certainly would. Guess I just think more of Bishop than others on here.

Dead horse = beaten. Carry on.

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03-07-2013, 10:55 AM
  #96
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So when Whitney gets back into the lineup in the the next week or so where do you guys see him playing. Do they keep that top line as is and slot Whitney next to Cole and Roy with some PP time?

Eriksson-Benn-Jagr
Cole-Roy-Whitney

I can't remember what the lines looked like at the beginning of the year.

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03-07-2013, 11:21 AM
  #97
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So when Whitney gets back into the lineup in the the next week or so where do you guys see him playing. Do they keep that top line as is and slot Whitney next to Cole and Roy with some PP time?

Eriksson-Benn-Jagr
Cole-Roy-Whitney

I can't remember what the lines looked like at the beginning of the year.
Switch Cole and Whitney (who is a LW) and that's what I'd expect to see.

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03-07-2013, 11:52 AM
  #98
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Yay

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...ance-increase/

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03-07-2013, 11:53 AM
  #99
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Baby steps.

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03-07-2013, 12:01 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy BoBandy View Post
So when Whitney gets back into the lineup in the the next week or so where do you guys see him playing. Do they keep that top line as is and slot Whitney next to Cole and Roy with some PP time?

Eriksson-Benn-Jagr
Cole-Roy-Whitney

I can't remember what the lines looked like at the beginning of the year.
I would rather see Roussell stay on the 2nd line and Whitney or Cole move to the 3rd to try to spark some more consistent offense from Eakin and Smith.

Who knows how long it will take Whitney to get back to full speed and how long Morrow will be around.

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