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Hodgson Trade Discussion

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Old
03-07-2013, 12:39 AM
  #51
jigsaw99
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
The difference here is that Hodgson could do absolutely no wrong last season to our fans. He could give up the puck 6 times a shift and there would be a ready made excuse.
Kassian ain't no Selke player either. He's has less responsible as a winger than Hodgson but he's been making poor plays in his own zone and had trouble clearing the puck. Let's not kid ourselves. he's not been good defensively and AV had bench and demoting him with a short leash like he does with Hodgson. Also, so far he's not been destroying people with hits like Lucic (as advertised...). I can't remember Kassian's last big hit.

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03-07-2013, 12:42 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
He wouldn't play above Schroeder imo. He wouldn't have seen the ice in the playoffs either. Can't win wit 'em.


Hodgson needs to take a time machine back to the 80's, when you didn't have to play any defence.
Kesler, is that you?

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03-07-2013, 12:45 AM
  #53
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Canucks dynamic has changed because of Kassian. Other guys are stepping up, following his example. Wait, Canucks waived that guy. They did bring in another guy so Kassian doesn't do all the scrapping. It might help. Kassian seems short tempered.

If Hodgson is accomplishing, too, it's all good. Good trade.

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03-07-2013, 12:46 AM
  #54
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Terrible trade. Myself, everyone in Vancouver, everyone in the sports media, everyone on hockey forums knew instantly it was a bad trade to the point of outrage from some fans. Hodsgon genuinely wanted to stay in Vancouver and he should have stayed as a 2nd line center Kesler healthy or not. Guy is a very skilled player it was obvious when he still played for the Canucks, Kassian is OK but nowhere near that level.

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03-07-2013, 12:54 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Windy River View Post
Terrible trade. Myself, everyone in Vancouver, everyone in the sports media, everyone on hockey forums knew instantly it was a bad trade to the point of outrage from some fans. Hodsgon genuinely wanted to stay in Vancouver and he should have stayed as a 2nd line center Kesler healthy or not. Guy is a very skilled player it was obvious when he still played for the Canucks, Kassian is OK but nowhere near that level.
Sorry, dude, but didn't you get the memo? Outside the Sedins, skill is not allowed on this team. In order to play on the Canucks, you must:

A) Have no offensive creativity

B) Be unable to snipe the puck

C) Be unable to dangle and deke

What you must have is:

D) No finish

E) An inability to lift the puck off the ice when shooting or passing

F) Grinding ability

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03-07-2013, 12:58 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckmatch View Post
AV: "Hodgson? He must be sheltered and can't play responsible defensively"

Hodgson goes to Buffalo with a terrible back end and a goalie who can't make a save, 13th in the conference, plays top line minutes and is almost a PPG player...all while being only -2.
Hodgson is also the worst player in the league for even strength goals against (both total and per 60 minutes).

The competition he's faced seems to be below average as well (probably a fair amount of checking lines). Despite that, he's been outscored by those checking lines.

Plus, Buffalo's defensive troubles seems to be much to do with his line. He plays about 30% of the even strength time in a game, yet has been on the ice for 50% of Buffalo's even strength goals against.

He's very good offensively, and has excellent linemates too, so they've nearly been able to outscore their defensive issues.

The fact remains though, that he's been poor defensively though, and his offensive contributions have been effectively cancelled out by his weak defensive play.

Is it that much better if your line scores 30 goals and gives up 32 goals due to weak defensive play than if your line scores 15 goals and gives up 17 goals?

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03-07-2013, 12:59 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windy River View Post
Terrible trade. Myself, everyone in Vancouver, everyone in the sports media, everyone on hockey forums knew instantly it was a bad trade to the point of outrage from some fans. Hodsgon genuinely wanted to stay in Vancouver and he should have stayed as a 2nd line center Kesler healthy or not. Guy is a very skilled player it was obvious when he still played for the Canucks, Kassian is OK but nowhere near that level.

So you are saying that the Canucks should have pushed Kesler to 3C after his 40 goal, Selke winning season for Hodgson?

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03-07-2013, 12:59 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by vector209 View Post
Sorry, dude, but didn't you get the memo? Outside the Sedins, skill is not allowed on this team. In order to play on the Canucks, you must:

A) Have no offensive creativity

B) Be unable to snipe the puck

C) Be unable to dangle and deke

What you must have is:

D) No finish

E) An inability to lift the puck off the ice when shooting or passing

F) Grinding ability
Yup, no dangerous top 6 player that can really create on his own. Kesler tries, but he really sucks at dangling and most of his success was after shooting a bazillion times in the summer, but it just doesn't come as naturally for him as for others like p kane. I'm not saying p. kane didn't practice really hard to get to be the player that he is today, but i think you know what i mean.

This is the reason why we make so many goalies like legends. No killer instinct either. I remember one of the sedins talking after the Oilers game where Tanev scored in OT to win it. I remember him saying about how it might have been a bit harder to get up for this game because it was a road game/oilers (something like that), this team just doesn't have that fire. Toews has the fire. Even if the canucks had the talent, they'd never pull off a streak like the hawks because the hawks top players are relentless. Play with more fire sedins. Play like how you played against the kings in that regulation win. sorry, forgot that I was in the coho thread.

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03-07-2013, 01:01 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by RezChi View Post
I don't get where all this Hodgson hate comes from, there is no actual proof that Hodgson wanted a trade out. His dad may have been a nuisance but that doesn't that you have to go out hating on him. All we get are quotes from Gillis saying that he spent more time on Hodgson then anyone else, well he was the top rookie of January and was slowly getting better and better yet he still gets limited ice time.
Also, you don't trade centres for damn wingers even if they both have potential to be great.

Hodgson -2 in buffalo is bad? Well ****, look at Myers' -6 and Kassians -4


Sadly Kassian doesn't guarantee use anything.
the -2 isn't the problem. it is the 32 goals against in 24 games. Myers and the D do suck this year but Miller is good goalie.

Hodgson's line does very little to help to help in it's own end 5 on 5. Blame the D all you want, but Myers 5 on 5 GA/20 drops from 2.282 playing with Hodgson to just 0.761 without him. Reigher goes from 1.703 to just .507. The terrible Mike Weber with Hodgson 2.099 becomes the amazing Weber without Hodgson 0.307. Those numbers are true for almost every Dman on the team.

Pominville might be a problem on the line he's at 38 GA or something like that, but if that's the case it still comes back to Hodgson as his job as a #1C to be cover for his 1-way wingers.

To Cody's credit he's only be on for 3 PP goals for, so he could have had a lot more points given PP time with Vanek and Pominville. OTOH his production isn't good away from Vanek and Pominville.

5 on 5 Kassian's production was very good with the Sedins (GF/20 1.052, GA/20 0.421). Apart he's looked bad and that shows (0.367, 1.347).

The moral of the story here is hitch a ride on two stars.

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03-07-2013, 01:03 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luongo321 View Post
Yup, no dangerous top 6 player that can really create on his own. Kesler tries, but he really sucks at dangling and most of his success was after shooting a bazillion times in the summer, but it just doesn't come as naturally for him as for others like p kane. I'm not saying p. kane didn't practice really hard to get to be the player that he is today, but i think you know what i mean.

This is the reason why we make so many goalies like legends. No killer instinct either. I remember one of the sedins talking after the Oilers game where Tanev scored in OT to win it. I remember him saying about how it might have been a bit harder to get up for this game because it was a road game/oilers (something like that), this team just doesn't have that fire. Toews has the fire. Even if the canucks had the talent, they'd never pull off a streak like the hawks because the hawks top players are relentless. Play with more fire sedins. Play like how you played against the kings in that regulation win. sorry, forgot that I was in the coho thread.


This is coaching IMHO. The Canucks have plenty of talent, including guys who can shoot. But AV has a very specific style, which has gone stale and the team is just listless.

It's not that our depth sucks, it's also partly that the Sedins are just that good.

The way AV has got this team, not only do we still make other team's backups look like stars, but we can't hold a bloody lead either.

All of our d-men seem to be fighting it too.

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03-07-2013, 01:03 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vector209 View Post
Sorry, dude, but didn't you get the memo? Outside the Sedins, skill is not allowed on this team. In order to play on the Canucks, you must:

A) Have no offensive creativity

B) Be unable to snipe the puck

C) Be unable to dangle and deke

What you must have is:

D) No finish

E) An inability to lift the puck off the ice when shooting or passing

F) Grinding ability
pretty much.. which is why AV is trying to turn Schroeder in to next Kesler even though he's meant for a different style based on his size & skill sets.

Shroeder has pretty much stop developing his offensive game since being drafted by the Canucks and now he's just... a mediocre 2 way centre. Future Ebbett at this pace of development. You either play like this or get benched.

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03-07-2013, 01:08 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by BuzzBuzz View Post
So you are saying that the Canucks should have pushed Kesler to 3C after his 40 goal, Selke winning season for Hodgson?
Throw Kesler on the wing and have coho as the C. AV didnt even try it once. Kesler and AV's egos are just too huge. They couldn't let cody have that satisfaction. With all of av's line juggling, you think he would at least try it once, but nope. No chance fo coho. Who knows? It may have benefited the team if he had tried it.


Now, Kassian, he hasnt had the most consistent start. However, it seems like small things can spark him for a decent stretch. I think the emotional atmosphere of the playoffs could be just what Kassian needs to get him jacked. If he gets a little bit more confidence in the playoffs, watch out. I think h has the ability to make a huge impact.

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03-07-2013, 01:17 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by luongo321 View Post
Throw Kesler on the wing and have coho as the C. AV didnt even try it once. Kesler and AV's egos are just too huge. They couldn't let cody have that satisfaction. With all of av's line juggling, you think he would at least try it once, but nope. No chance fo coho. Who knows? It may have benefited the team if he had tried it.

Again why do you want to move a guy that just scored 40 goals while winning a the Selke as a centre to the wing? Kesler played centre for almost his entire career and it is in the middle that he is best offensively and defensively. Hodgson is hardly the playmaking centre either.

What would have benefited the team is if Hodgson learned to play a little defense.

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03-07-2013, 01:17 AM
  #64
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Just wanted to throw this out there. I agree with pretty much all of it:
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
I just don't know if Hodgson at this point could handle top 6 duties playing behind the Sedins because of his defensive inadequacies. Scoring at a 65 point pace with 1st line minutes means nothing if you're a liability. Look at Tampa Bay. All the scoring in the world but they're a bottom 5 team in the league because they can't keep the puck out of their own net.

Hodgson could probably do well in a sheltered offensive role and getting Sedin type minutes, but at his current level he's simply not good enough to be worth building a lineup around like the Sedins are. Maybe he'll get better defensively with age and experience so he can handle normal minutes without being a train wreck in his own end, but by the sounds of it patience wasn't something he had so that was never going to happen with the Canucks. He wanted top minutes now.

I think it would've been fantastic if he'd been willing to work his way up the Canucks lineup and work on his defensive game but the player has to want to do that and it doesn't sound like it's something he takes seriously based on his pro career and how he's performing in Buffalo.


And that all completely ignores all the other off ice issues between Hodgson's camp and the team. I can't imagine trying to negotiate this summer with a guy who'd burned through 3 different agents and who was presumably willing to force himself off the team so he could set himself up for a better 2nd contract. Not to mention his dad sounds like a nutcase. This was a guy who called up Elliotte Friedman and harassed him just because Friedman implied that Hodgson's family was too involved one night on HNIC.

Though I better not say any more, maybe Hodgson's dad will create an account on HFBoards and send me some PMs.

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03-07-2013, 01:27 AM
  #65
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Again why do you want to move a guy that just scored 40 goals while winning a the Selke as a centre to the wing? Kesler played centre for almost his entire career and it is in the middle that he is best offensively and defensively. Hodgson is hardly the playmaking centre either.

What would have benefited the team is if Hodgson learned to play a little defense.
Because he hasn't been a 40-goal Selke guy for awhile. And the whole point of Hodgson centering Kesler IS TO GET BOTH OF THEM GOING.

Kesler would cover for CoHo defensively and on faceoffs. Coho would be the playmaking linemate Kesler has never had and enable him to get easier one-shot goals that would probably also reduce the wear and tear on Kesler since he would hopefully learn he doesn't have to go 1-on-3 against the opposition on every rush. Sheesh.

It's not like playing the wing is a demotion for Kes since he is still the main triggerman on the line and would have gotten most of the goals and glory.

ANYWAYS. He-who-must-not-be-named is gone. What I'm concerned with is that bluechip guy we got back is getting treated improperly as well. No, he hasn't played well but I don't think Kassian has consistently been put in a position to succeed. Let's face it, it seems like a good idea to put him on the 4th line and say 'go bang and crash' but that's not his main game. His main game is that he has major skills with a good portion of bang and crash that goes with it. I think it's dumb to keep forcing him and Schroeder to ignore their offensive game totally.

It's yet another case of trying to force guys into a mould. That mould works for a Raymond or Hansen and gets the best out of them. But it doesn't work for these truly gifted prospects.

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03-07-2013, 01:33 AM
  #66
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Hodgson always had the ability to turn into a Daymond Langkow-type tweener #1-2 center and is now turning into a Daymond Langkow-type tweener #1-2 center. Not utterly shocked about this.

He's a solid offensive player, but his numbers this year are very Vanek/situation influenced.

Kassian is younger and rawer and this trade won't be able to be judged for a long time. Suspect it will be very even in the end.

And of course, Hodgson would never have been traded if he wasn't a petulent baby with icetime demands who didn't want to earn his position and icetime on a good team.

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03-07-2013, 01:36 AM
  #67
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Also, it's pretty funny now with Raymond at center. The other game he was being replaced on every faceoff and then he would switch with Higgins once the play turned the other way and cover the center's duties.

But put two of our potentially most dangerous offensive players together? Naw, that would be crazy! Kesler would have to switch!

And Hodgson on the wing wasn't playing to his strengths. He's not swift of foot.

Let's get this straight - they fed him offensive zone starts, but they haven't bothered to do that what anyone before or since?

Having 'spoon-fed' him for so long, why not just take it the extra mile and make him the center. Do you think Kesler would complain if he started scoring more?

Neither did they run any plays in which CoHo would be the last guy into the O-zone as a winger on the half-wall, from where he could dish to Kesler. That would have been a way to get around his lack of speed on the wing.

Oh, and CoHo as the sole forechecker on the line as well - brilliant idea. Did they expect him to suddenly get 10 times faster?

Really, AV cocked up every aspect of CoHo's development. Let's hope he's either fired or learns to give Kassian a better chance.

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03-07-2013, 01:37 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
Because he hasn't been a 40-goal Selke guy for awhile. And the whole point of Hodgson centering Kesler IS TO GET BOTH OF THEM GOING.
You mean for 1 year? The year that Hodgson played for the Canucks was the year right after Kesler won his Selke and scored 40-goals.

Quote:
Kesler would cover for CoHo defensively and on faceoffs.
I rather use Kesler to shut down opposing players than have him cover for a rookie that refuses to play defense.

Quote:
Coho would be the playmaking linemate Kesler has never had and enable him to get easier one-shot goals that would probably also reduce the wear and tear on Kesler since he would hopefully learn he doesn't have to go 1-on-3 against the opposition on every rush. Sheesh.
Look at Hodgson's stats. He has never been a playmaker.

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03-07-2013, 01:48 AM
  #69
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No.

Slow offensive center who is on the ice for a lot of goals against. Scores his fair share while playing with elite players, but happens to be on the ice for more goals against even with his gaudy EV strength numbers (that simply aren't that impressive when you balance the ledger).

Sorry. Raymond and Hansen won't open up ice for him like Vanek and Pominville can.

So here he'd be playing with lesser skilled forwards (who would play responsibly ie shelter his own responsibility) and end up nowhere near as effective.

Now before you say, that's AV and his systems fault, well I'll just say defensively responsible players win games in this league. It's no coincidence to me Buffalo's style has them picking in the top 4.

It sort of opens the eyes to why players in Rochester always have better numbers than the ones on the Canucks farm. But I watch the NHL and the guys that played in our system are much more dependable players. Yeah it would be awesome to have more offense, but not by virtue of playing less defense.

For those making a point to mention Kassian's poor defense. I don't see it. He's a much better defense player now than hodgson IMO. Where he is deficient is puck management and consistency. He's a year behind Hodgson in the NHL. He's still figuring out what he is (hodgson is too, but IMO he's more of a finished product or at least closer to that).

We already see Kassian is more versatile as well. Has played on all 4 forward lines at this point and has characteristics and skills that have allowed him to be effective in all those roles.

I don't think hodgson really improves this team at all right now. Creates a huge deficiency in other things.

Not to mention a lot of souls want luongo gone because he wants out. You guys blowing that horn (I know u haven't Y2k) better keep quiet when he is moved and we struggle.

It's become a cry baby fest on here with the hodgson this, Grabner that crap. Let's move on.

We're not even a half of a shortened season done and people are ready to acclaim Hodgson the next Steve Yzerman (albeit shorter, slower, and not as good).


With you on everything but the Luongo comment. Bolded the great points. Defense and versatility are what Kassian brings over Hodgson. If he matched production, it would be no contest.

@me2, where are you pulling your numbers from?

Also, I'm wondering with Hodgson's negative GF/GA ratio, where Kassian fits with his own? If Hodgson is projected to be on for 70 GF to 100GA, resulting in a -30 net result, how does Kassian stack up to that? If it's the same differential, aren't they both on for the same net "gain" despite Kassian's lower totals?

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03-07-2013, 01:51 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
Hodgson always had the ability to turn into a Daymond Langkow-type tweener #1-2 center and is now turning into a Daymond Langkow-type tweener #1-2 center. Not utterly shocked about this.

He's a solid offensive player, but his numbers this year are very Vanek/situation influenced.

Kassian is younger and rawer and this trade won't be able to be judged for a long time. Suspect it will be very even in the end.

And of course, Hodgson would never have been traded if he wasn't a petulent baby with icetime demands who didn't want to earn his position and icetime on a good team.

An even handed response. Post more MS.



I want to add that what Hodgson is doing right now works very well for him. His prime objective is to score points, at the expense of everything else. In fact, I recall hearing that the reason he was pushing to be moved further up the line-up was to get a better chance at a good deal when his contract is up. Does anyone else remember that speculation? The way it looks right now, he'll cash in soon. And as me2 alludes, then there will be little difference between the Roys, Ribeiros and the Hodgsons of the world. Oh, and it just so happens his contract ends this year... which signals the end of any savings.

Meanwhile, guys like Kassian who impact the game more away from the puck and fall short in matching production, tend to be underpriced when contract talks roll around. Teams like STL benefit from exactly this effect. They have multiple players that do more than just their numbers would indicate. As a result, they have one of the most efficient rosters in the league. Just something to keep in mind.


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 03-07-2013 at 02:02 AM.
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03-07-2013, 02:08 AM
  #71
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Insecurity is strong here.

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03-07-2013, 02:20 AM
  #72
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Trepidation is expected since Kassian, as most budding power forwards do, is in his cold streak; consistency isn't part of his game while we've seen Hodgson sustain some good numbers over the course of the season. However, people need to stop looking at his stay with rose-coloured glasses; regardless of whatever talent and potential he may have possessed, he wasn't going to stay here being a 3rd line center behind Kesler and Sedins. Both Gillis and AV have shown that they place a strong emphasis on defense especially in the bottom 6 and Hodgson doesn't have the skillset to play in this role. Meddling from his father also didn't help his position on this team. There was always tension between the Hodgson camp and the Canucks stemming back with the medical misdiagnosis from Dr. AV so I'm fairly surprised how people are so angry at this trade when in reality there really is no alternate scenario as opposed to not having hired Gillis in the first place who brought in AV as a coach and traded Hodgson (who also drafted Hodgson might I add, so the aforementioned point is moot). The return was good considering the premium price power forwards go these days especially with the power structure of the NHL demanding skill within the enforcer-type players.

Here's a question for those who still want Hodgson: What should have gotten in return instead? We were never going to keep him so what would make you happy if we're giving up our "franchise 1st liner?"

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03-07-2013, 02:23 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Also, I'm wondering with Hodgson's negative GF/GA ratio, where Kassian fits with his own?
you can't really compare them right now because hodgson is rocking an on ice sv% of a minor league call up in the 1980s. once ryan miller gets over his inability to look away from hodgson's strong jaw line when he's on the ice and make a ****ing save, his stats will look at lot better

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03-07-2013, 02:23 AM
  #74
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why reopen old wounds?

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03-07-2013, 02:24 AM
  #75
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Insecurity is strong here.
Last few days on hf makes me hope people are checking out that mind check website.

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