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Hockey without fighting.

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Old
03-07-2013, 09:08 AM
  #151
ZARTONK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Oracle View Post
I really don't understand your logic here. Of course the rules and suspension aren't completely stopping dirty and dangerous plays, but they are limiting them. The rules can definitely be improved, but without them we'd have anarchy on the ice.



This is just complete nonsense. There are always going to be some people who break the rules, but a well-designed rulebook and consistent and appropriate suspensions can limit dirty plays in the NHL.



Players aren't forced to fight anyone. Kronwall doesn't have to answer for his (allegedly) dirty hits by fighting, but he might have to change his game if he gets called for too many penalties and/or suspended.
I'm not suggesting we throw away the rule book and have the survival of the strongest run the game, but I think the fear of getting your ass handed to you is as much an incentive if not more to not make dangerous plays as a suspension or a fine.

As for Kronwall, he might also have to change his game if he gets his ass kicked every time he does an (allegedly) dirty hit.

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Old
03-07-2013, 09:09 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Of course it will...the only question is if it will go away as a result of an unfortunate accident on the ice which will finally make hockey fans/players/media realize how archaic it is or, if they'll finally realize it on their own.

Fighting will either be eradicated completely or it will be heavily legislated...it's a matter of time.
Lmao, nope.

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03-07-2013, 09:09 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by urho View Post
And those saying hockey would suck without fighting... wtf? Why are you watching the game? And fights don't have a correlation of any kind with injuries... It's just a myth.
you know who disagrees with you ? pretty much every player who has ever laced them up, all of the GM's and the coachers.

But yeah, your opinion should carry the same weight as the collective will of all of the players, you know the ones who will face the direct consequences of this choice.

The extent of some posters sense of self-importance is staggering.
The day the players collectively decide to end fighting I'm fine with that, until then your ( an my) opinion is moot.

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03-07-2013, 09:10 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
The only reason people are against fighting is because very few "passion fights" occur nowadays.

Almost every fight is either staged or is the result of a clean hit.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a fight between two players on two heated teams who are sick of each other.
I can agree with this post

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03-07-2013, 09:10 AM
  #155
Cursed Lemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Oracle View Post
I'd say the possibility of players getting brain damage from beating each other with their fists could be considered a downside of fighting.
Hey, you know what else can cause serious injuries?

Body checks.

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Old
03-07-2013, 09:11 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Lmao, nope.
If the internet existed in the 60's...I imagine this is the type of response people would have in response to whether or not helmets should be mandatory.

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03-07-2013, 09:12 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by ReimerForPM View Post
God, I hate these stupid knee-jerk reactions.

Without fighting, the Kaletas, Cookes, and Marchands would take over the game. That would be worse. Having dirty players play dirty without the risk of being accountable on the ice. And don't tell me that "suspensions or fines will take care of that". That is ********. It doesn't work.

One guy gets knocked out and this is what happens.... go watch soccer or baseball if you dont like fighting.
Players like Kaleta and Marchand (and pretty much every other pest) have been in multiple fights and they still play the game the same way that they always have. Clearly fights aren't keeping them accountable.

Matt Cooke didn't change his game until he started getting suspended for every little thing he did.

Suspensions do a better job of keeping players accountable than fighting.

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03-07-2013, 09:12 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
That would be retarded. Fights don't win games. And say your facing a team like the bruins. They put chara out there(or any of their other huge guys) and they win. Fighting shouldn't determine who gets the extra point.
Yet a one vs the goalie shootout format is acceptable?

This penalizes teams who are baed on defense

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03-07-2013, 09:13 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by G51 K81 View Post
It's true. Go watch football or something if you don't like it.
I'm gonna watch whatever the hell I want lol...so these lame and outdated responses don't bother me one bit

It's as creative as NHL player interviews...

get real

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03-07-2013, 09:13 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
That's a risk he was more than willing to take.

It's a risk that every player that laces up a skate takes when they step out on the ice.

It can happen with a hit, an awkward fall, a puck to the head.
It's much more likely to happen with fights, at least if you fight repeatedly.


By the way, I really liked the New York Times' article series on Boogaard. Here's an excerpt from part 1.

Quote:
Boogaard rarely complained about the toll — the crumpled and broken hands, the aching back and the concussions that nobody cared to count. But those who believe Boogaard loved to fight have it wrong. He loved what it brought: a continuation of an unlikely hockey career. And he loved what it meant: vengeance against a lifetime of perceived doubters and the gratitude of teammates glad that he would do a job they could not imagine.

He did not acknowledge the damage to his brain, the changes in his personality, even the addictions that ultimately killed him in the prime of his career. If he did recognize the toll, he dismissed it as the mere cost of getting everything he ever wanted.

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03-07-2013, 09:13 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
Players like Kaleta and Marchand (and pretty much every other pest) have been in multiple fights and they still play the game the same way that they always have. Clearly fights aren't keeping them accountable.

Matt Cooke didn't change his game until he started getting suspended for every little thing he did.

Suspensions do a better job of keeping players accountable than fighting.
Coughinstigatorpenaltycough

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Old
03-07-2013, 09:13 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
Players like Kaleta and Marchand (and pretty much every other pest) have been in multiple fights and they still play the game the same way that they always have. Clearly fights aren't keeping them accountable.

Matt Cooke didn't change his game until he started getting suspended for every little thing he did.

Clearly suspensions do a better job of keeping players accountable than fighting.
only since the instigator rule...

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03-07-2013, 09:14 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by compile View Post
I guess no one here watches Olympic hockey nor NHL playoff games.

Shame it's pretty damn entertaining.
Well said.

People go through such logical contortions to justify fighting. The obvious reason it's there (still) is that it sells. Too many regular season games, the year drags on, you need something to create excitement - voila - our 4-minute-per-game goon fights your 4-minute-per-game goon!

A little bit of professional wrestling to spice thing up.

Way to go, NHL.

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Old
03-07-2013, 09:14 AM
  #164
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If you don't like fights then change the channel, go take a leak, grab a beer, make a sammich, etc.

There's no sense in crying about something that's been a part of the game for longer than 99% of us here have been alive.

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03-07-2013, 09:15 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
you know who disagrees with you ? pretty much every player who has ever laced them up, all of the GM's and the coachers.
It's just because their premise of hockey includes that kind of thinking. The reality is different. If fighting really reduces the number of injuries suffered, you'd make a statistical discovery where teams that generally don't fight would have much more injuries than your "bruins" for example. Guess what? There's no such anomaly in statistics. Not in the NHL, not in FEL, SEL or KHL for that matter.

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03-07-2013, 09:15 AM
  #166
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Would just be another step towards making it soccer on ice. Hockey fans are getting softer by the day.

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Old
03-07-2013, 09:16 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I'm gonna watch whatever the hell I want lol...so these lame and outdated responses don't bother me one bit

It's as creative as NHL player interviews...

get real
Then stop *****ing and watch the sport. Bettman already stated fighting is never going away.

Better idea, when a fight comes on the tv mute the tv, turn the channel and put the covers over your head.

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03-07-2013, 09:16 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Bask View Post
if you go with that argument the solution isnt fighting, the solution is Shanahan actually doing his job and punishing the players properly... dirty hit? 10 games and a 10 000$ fine TO THE TEAM, 2nd time? 25 games and a 25 000$ fine, etc etc

who cares about losing a goon for 3 games as it is right now, its pointless... this leagues needs a change of mentality IMO, and the only way to do that is to go straight to the organisations pocket
Exactly right on the suspensions. I'm fine w/ the fighting rules as they are, just not okay w/ players who cannot make it to the NHL based on hockey skills.

I'm fine w/ people being intimidated because Mark Messier's on the ice, but not because Donald Brashear is out there.

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03-07-2013, 09:17 AM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urho View Post
It's just because their premise of hockey includes that kind of thinking. The reality is different. If fighting really reduces the number of injuries suffered, you'd make a statistical discovery where teams that generally don't fight would have much more injuries than your "bruins" for example. Guess what? There's no such anomaly in statistics. Not in the NHL, not in FEL, SEL or KHL for that matter.
No one said fighting reduces injuries.

It definitely reduces cheap shots, though.

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03-07-2013, 09:17 AM
  #170
Laus723
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
If the internet existed in the 60's...I imagine this is the type of response people would have in response to whether or not helmets should be mandatory.
It didn't, and wearin helmets have nothing to do with fighting. That's not a good comparison. Flying pucks, hitting your head, etc all are good reasons, the two son compare. Stop trying

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03-07-2013, 09:18 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by ReimerForPM View Post
God, I hate these stupid knee-jerk reactions.

Without fighting, the Kaletas, Cookes, and Marchands would take over the game. That would be worse. Having dirty players play dirty without the risk of being accountable on the ice. And don't tell me that "suspensions or fines will take care of that". That is ********. It doesn't work.

One guy gets knocked out and this is what happens.... go watch soccer or baseball if you dont like fighting.
I wish you were right, but fighting's in the game now and it doesn't seem to be stopping them does it?

Cooke was clearly stopped by the league finally imposing serious discipline. I think some of these guys are borderline sociopaths, and you can't accomplish enough in one fight where they turtle to stop them.

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03-07-2013, 09:19 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by ZARTONK View Post
What I'm asking is how and who decides who's only in the game to fight? A panel of refs? You? Bettman?
They've already got a rule for fighting in the final few minutes of a game and it can cost the coach that let the player out on the ice a suspension as well. In a case like this, a staged fight 26 seconds into the game they can add a rule where it's an immediate suspension and fine for the team. Referees already make judgement calls throughout the game, I'm fully willing to give them the power to automatically toss two players from the game if it looks like the only reason they are their is to fight.

I dont have a problem with fighting in general. Hockey is a game based largely on aggression and emotion and sometimes those emotions will flare. I am againt teams carrying large goons on their roster for no other purpose than to fight. I'm against giving developing players the belief they can make it to the NHL by fighting if they're not good enough any other way. If you are good at fighting but not hockey GTFO, take up MMA or boxing or karate or some combat sport.

The idea that taking fighting out makes dirty hits more likely or stick work is laughable. These incidents happen now and nobody that does them is worrying about retribution when they do them. Moreover when is the last time Matt Cooke was forced to clean up his act because a goon punched his lights out. It doesnt happen. Goons fight goons not rats and cheapshot artists.

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03-07-2013, 09:20 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Of course it will...the only question is if it will go away as a result of an unfortunate accident on the ice which will finally make hockey fans/players/media realize how archaic it is or, if they'll finally realize it on their own.

Fighting will either be eradicated completely or it will be heavily legislated...it's a matter of time.
yeah its a good thing that the anti fighting crowd has only recently gotten together to voice their displeasure.

People have been whining about fighting for as long as I can remember. in this 35 years or so, the fans appetite for fighting has not decreased and the number of players who oppose getting rid of fighting had dropped from 96% to 96%. oh wait.

And this really grinds my gears, people who for their own personal sense of enjoyment of the game who actually hope that a player dies on the ice as the result of a fight so that they get to leverage this tragedy to impose their own personal vision of the game. So much for the canard of " increasing player safety" or being concerned with player safety. And I love the implication that the collective will of the entirety of the hockey collective are somehow intellectually unable to recognize the consequences of their choices
" if they'll finally realize it on their own" and that everything would be peachy if they only listened to anonymous internet posters who might not know the difference between a wrist shot and a wrist watch. on behalf of all players past and present I apoligize that they aren't as enlightened as you are.

There is a word for people who exploit the tragic loss of others for their own personal gain. hoping for it is morose.

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03-07-2013, 09:20 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by G51 K81 View Post
Then stop *****ing and watch the sport. Bettman already stated fighting is never going away.

Better idea, when a fight comes on the tv mute the tv, turn the channel and put the covers over your head.
I'm not whining about fighting...it's there for the time being. I don't mind it.

I'm just not dumb enough to think that it's here to stay

Also, you can keep coming with the immature jabs about me being soft cause I think fighting should/will be eliminated

Doesn't change my point of view...

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03-07-2013, 09:20 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
No one said fighting reduces injuries.

It definitely reduces cheap shots, though.
Really? And you think there's no contradiction between those lines?

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