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McLaren just DROPS Dziurzynski!!! **YT Post #75**

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03-07-2013, 08:13 AM
  #201
Oates2Neely
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
Lucic is smarter than he looks- wouldn't fight Big Georges Laraque and won't fight Mclaren. How about John Scott? Too big for Lucic?
Well, Tom Pyatt is still playing.
Dude give it up,, you're hate for Lucic (or anything Bruins) is hilarious. Lucic is a top line LW 60 point scorer. Why must he take on all 4th line goons who should be playing in the ECHL?

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03-07-2013, 08:35 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Sorry, in bare knuckle boxing what is it that you do want to see?
It's not bare knuckle boxing, it's a hockey game.

My discomfort with this fight isn't with the result, in a vacuum, as if players getting knocked out is something that should be banned. The problem is that this was a staged fight was 26 seconds into the game, between two guys with less than a season's experience between them, in a game where there was no particular bad blood carrying over from previous matchups.

So... why are they fighting? There was no provocation, no purpose. Just two completely random players who have 5 points between the two of them, stopping the game to swap some punches while all the actual NHL hockey players stand around and watch. There was no momentum to shift, no incident to avenge, no justice to enforce. A guy got put on IR for absolutely no reason.

What are we supposed to say when an anti-fighting proponent shows this video and asks the question, "Is this really hockey, or just a sideshow"? It's a sideshow. That's exactly what it is. Pointless, and dangerous, and indefensible except as a UFC-level entertainment vehicle. No different from Vityaz or LNAH. It's a sham, and it's the reason that fighting is going to end up getting banned and guys like Cooke and Kaleta are going to take over the league.

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03-07-2013, 09:02 AM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
It's not bare knuckle boxing, it's a hockey game.

My discomfort with this fight isn't with the result, in a vacuum, as if players getting knocked out is something that should be banned. The problem is that this was a staged fight was 26 seconds into the game, between two guys with less than a season's experience between them, in a game where there was no particular bad blood carrying over from previous matchups.

So... why are they fighting? There was no provocation, no purpose. Just two completely random players who have 5 points between the two of them, stopping the game to swap some punches while all the actual NHL hockey players stand around and watch. There was no momentum to shift, no incident to avenge, no justice to enforce. A guy got put on IR for absolutely no reason.

What are we supposed to say when an anti-fighting proponent shows this video and asks the question, "Is this really hockey, or just a sideshow"? It's a sideshow. That's exactly what it is. Pointless, and dangerous, and indefensible except as a UFC-level entertainment vehicle. No different from Vityaz or LNAH. It's a sham, and it's the reason that fighting is going to end up getting banned and guys like Cooke and Kaleta are going to take over the league.
agree with everything, especially the bolded part.

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03-07-2013, 09:05 AM
  #204
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Dizzy is actually a decent hockey player. Too bad he felt the need to drop'em with a goon for no reason.

Hope he's back soon.

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03-07-2013, 09:39 AM
  #205
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wow...that was nasty!

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03-07-2013, 09:43 AM
  #206
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What was Paul Maclean saying?

any good lip readers?

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03-07-2013, 09:44 AM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
It's not bare knuckle boxing, it's a hockey game.

My discomfort with this fight isn't with the result, in a vacuum, as if players getting knocked out is something that should be banned. The problem is that this was a staged fight was 26 seconds into the game, between two guys with less than a season's experience between them, in a game where there was no particular bad blood carrying over from previous matchups.

So... why are they fighting? There was no provocation, no purpose. Just two completely random players who have 5 points between the two of them, stopping the game to swap some punches while all the actual NHL hockey players stand around and watch. There was no momentum to shift, no incident to avenge, no justice to enforce. A guy got put on IR for absolutely no reason.

What are we supposed to say when an anti-fighting proponent shows this video and asks the question, "Is this really hockey, or just a sideshow"? It's a sideshow. That's exactly what it is. Pointless, and dangerous, and indefensible except as a UFC-level entertainment vehicle. No different from Vityaz or LNAH. It's a sham, and it's the reason that fighting is going to end up getting banned and guys like Cooke and Kaleta are going to take over the league.
I like a good hockey fight as much as the next guy, but this right here is as good of a reason as it gets that putting an end to fighting in the NHL needs to be considered.

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03-07-2013, 09:48 AM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Dude give it up,, you're hate for Lucic (or anything Bruins) is hilarious. Lucic is a top line LW 60 point scorer. Why must he take on all 4th line goons who should be playing in the ECHL?
Agree with Lucic not having to fight anyone. But to bash a guy who is playing rather decent 4th line hockey - And has chipped in a bit, Is quite ridiculous.

Every team has these players....it sickened me when Jack Edwards was calling the Scott/Thornton fight; and was saying how Scott is a pure goon, without fighting he wouldn't play. (might be true, but look at your own player too Jack) The blatent bias from him was nuts, considering he was fighting Thornton. Who is no different than Orr, McClaren, Scott, Parros etc.

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03-07-2013, 10:08 AM
  #209
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What the hell is the Sens coach thinking putting the kid in a spot like that. Young guy fresh up that's a bit of a scrapper, of course he's going to go. Should have been under instructions to not tangle with the big boys.. why would the Sens even want to engage, especially as the visiting team, in what really is part of the Leafs MO. Now the kid is hurt..

That said.. dang, nice punch there McLaren, well done.

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03-07-2013, 10:09 AM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
What was Paul Maclean saying?

any good lip readers?
Presumably, "My bad".

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03-07-2013, 10:13 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiffy View Post
What the hell is the Sens coach thinking putting the kid in a spot like that. Young guy fresh up that's a bit of a scrapper, of course he's going to go. Should have been under instructions to not tangle with the big boys.. why would the Sens even want to engage, especially as the visiting team, in what really is part of the Leafs MO. Now the kid is hurt..

That said.. dang, nice punch there McLaren, well done.
who is to say he wasn't under instruction not to fight?

Could of been a personal decision that he made, maybe he thought he needed to prove himself.

regardless **** happens in hockey, just have to roll with the punches.......

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03-07-2013, 10:15 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Ziggy66 View Post
who is to say he wasn't under instruction not to fight?

Could of been a personal decision that he made, maybe he thought he needed to prove himself.
Granted I suppose.. just feel bad for the kid, hope he's alright, and I do think he was put in a bad spot there. Two of the guys on that Leafs line have already dropped/beat up friggin' John Scott.

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03-07-2013, 10:20 AM
  #213
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Wow..brutal. Is this guy ok? Any update?

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03-07-2013, 10:51 AM
  #214
JLP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
It's not bare knuckle boxing, it's a hockey game.

My discomfort with this fight isn't with the result, in a vacuum, as if players getting knocked out is something that should be banned. The problem is that this was a staged fight was 26 seconds into the game, between two guys with less than a season's experience between them, in a game where there was no particular bad blood carrying over from previous matchups.

So... why are they fighting? There was no provocation, no purpose. Just two completely random players who have 5 points between the two of them, stopping the game to swap some punches while all the actual NHL hockey players stand around and watch. There was no momentum to shift, no incident to avenge, no justice to enforce. A guy got put on IR for absolutely no reason.

What are we supposed to say when an anti-fighting proponent shows this video and asks the question, "Is this really hockey, or just a sideshow"? It's a sideshow. That's exactly what it is. Pointless, and dangerous, and indefensible except as a UFC-level entertainment vehicle. No different from Vityaz or LNAH. It's a sham, and it's the reason that fighting is going to end up getting banned and guys like Cooke and Kaleta are going to take over the league.
It's cheap how the NHL condones staged fighting, seems they are pandering to the sort of fans who go to NASCAR hoping to see a crash. As for guys like Cooke and Kaleta flourishing if fighting is properly banned, those guys are playing right now aren't they?

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03-07-2013, 11:09 AM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiffy View Post
What the hell is the Sens coach thinking putting the kid in a spot like that. Young guy fresh up that's a bit of a scrapper, of course he's going to go. Should have been under instructions to not tangle with the big boys.. why would the Sens even want to engage, especially as the visiting team, in what really is part of the Leafs MO. Now the kid is hurt..

That said.. dang, nice punch there McLaren, well done.
He's a young kid trying to prove he's worthy of a roster spot. I doubt the coaches wanted him to go out there and fight. Some times this stuff happens.

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03-07-2013, 11:43 AM
  #216
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That was absolutely brutal. Dizzy can actually play, don't know why he would drop the gloves with mclaren or orr for that matter.

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03-07-2013, 11:48 AM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
It's cheap how the NHL condones staged fighting, seems they are pandering to the sort of fans who go to NASCAR hoping to see a crash.
I'm not sure it's pandering, so much as lacking a good way to police what is a "good" fight and what is a "bad" fight. The attempts they've made to date -- such as the instigator rule and the auto-misconduct for the final few minutes of a game -- have not been effective and generally seem to elevate the issue rather than resolving it.

To tell you the truth, I don't have a good solution either. I'd like to see fighting stay in the game, as long as it's related to actual gameplay and not just random Street Fighter style episodes like this one. How to make that happen? No clue.

Quote:
As for guys like Cooke and Kaleta flourishing if fighting is properly banned, those guys are playing right now aren't they?
Unfortunately they are... but at least Cooke eventually had to answer for the Savard hit. Claude Lemieux eventually got his, etc. I have a feeling that the day after fighting is banned, we're going to see about 15 suspensions related to cheap hits and stickwork from agitators.

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03-07-2013, 12:01 PM
  #218
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lol? there was absolutely no point in that fight.. im not against fighting its just staged fights off the face off like that are just not entertaining.
There was a purpose. Toronto has been getting off to ****** starts lately and McLaren wanted to give them an early spark. (He said that in the post-game)

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03-07-2013, 12:08 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
Dizzy is actually a decent hockey player. Too bad he felt the need to drop'em with a goon for no reason.

Hope he's back soon.
McLaren isn't that bad of a hockey player in my opinion and he's got more points than this Dizzy guy.

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03-07-2013, 12:16 PM
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiffy View Post
What the hell is the Sens coach thinking putting the kid in a spot like that. Young guy fresh up that's a bit of a scrapper, of course he's going to go. Should have been under instructions to not tangle with the big boys.. why would the Sens even want to engage, especially as the visiting team, in what really is part of the Leafs MO. Now the kid is hurt..
Ottawa has barely been in any fights this year, and for the past 5-10 games its really felt like McLean has had the players keep their gloves glued on. Really surprising considering we actually do have some artillery in the lineup (no heavies though).

And its not like Paulrus put him in this situation - game is in Toronto and they have the last change so if anything it was Carlyle who wanted that match-up (not referring to the fight).

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03-07-2013, 12:20 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by FV View Post
McLaren isn't that bad of a hockey player in my opinion and he's got more points than this Dizzy guy.
In the 9 NHL games Dziurzynski played prior to last night his lowest TOI was 9:08- in his first game. Next lowest is 11:35, and he topped out at 16:13 one game.

McLaren's season high is 7:13, and he bottoms out at 3:20. And I've seen his "goals" where he just crashes the net and the puck bounces off him and in. He's a goon.

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03-07-2013, 12:21 PM
  #222
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That was absolutely brutal. Dizzy can actually play, don't know why he would drop the gloves with mclaren or orr for that matter.
Doesn't make sense! This team Needs and a goon type, especially now with all the injuries to take care of the Orrs/Mclarens Sens could have used DD with the way he was playing thus far and neil needs to stay on ice rather than fighting guys like orr at this point.

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03-07-2013, 12:44 PM
  #223
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When I saw who was going at it.. I said to myself No, no what are you thinking?! (to the Sens player) I knew what the outcome was going to be before punches were thrown.

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03-07-2013, 01:11 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I'm not sure it's pandering, so much as lacking a good way to police what is a "good" fight and what is a "bad" fight. The attempts they've made to date -- such as the instigator rule and the auto-misconduct for the final few minutes of a game -- have not been effective and generally seem to elevate the issue rather than resolving it.

To tell you the truth, I don't have a good solution either. I'd like to see fighting stay in the game, as long as it's related to actual gameplay and not just random Street Fighter style episodes like this one. How to make that happen? No clue.

...

Unfortunately they are... but at least Cooke eventually had to answer for the Savard hit. Claude Lemieux eventually got his, etc. I have a feeling that the day after fighting is banned, we're going to see about 15 suspensions related to cheap hits and stickwork from agitators.

Well maybe you answered your own question. If the league seriously punished cheap hits and stickwork, with coach granted incident-review requests, with 5 minute penalties and strongly-increasing suspension periods for repeat offenders, fines to the team itself, etc. then why would the players have to self-police with fighting? I think it would be hard to eliminate only certain types of fights as the line can be unclear.

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03-07-2013, 01:20 PM
  #225
tarheelhockey
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Well maybe you answered your own question. If the league seriously punished cheap hits and stickwork, with coach granted incident-review requests, with 5 minute penalties and strongly-increasing suspension periods for repeat offenders, fines to the team itself, etc. then why would the players have to self-police with fighting? I think it would be hard to eliminate only certain types of fights as the line can be unclear.
It's hard to deny that line of logic.

The main objection would be that the game would become much lower-contact in general if players were afraid of getting suspended for anything that could be interpreted as borderline. And of course the divers would have a field day.

The other objection would be an outright appeal to the tradition and culture of fighting in hockey.

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