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Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation - 2012-13 (Part XI)

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Old
03-07-2013, 02:26 AM
  #851
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I like Paul. I was an Avs fan till the Jets came back.

Is nobody else worried that he has settled in as a mid 50ish point player. If he has is 55ish points worth that much more than Little brings? Paul is pretty good on the PP, but little is probably better on the PK and I don't think they are that far apart at even strength. If you factor in how much more Pauly is gonna cost - is he really worth moving Little?
That's a fair point depending on how much Little wants it may not be worth it. I still believe Stastny is a the better offensive player by a decent margin and would help a guy like Kane a lot and Kane could in turn help him. Colorado hasn't exactly had a pile of talent on the wings in recent years or on the backend for that matter. I think taking into consideration the transition and offensive game of guys like Enstrom and Buff and playing between a Wheeler or Kane he could probably pass 60 points again.

Who knows maybe they get rid of a guy like Burmi instead and move Little back to the RW where I think he is better suited. Not saying I would want to lose Burmi but Dreger said he could be moved so I'm preparing myself for that possibility. Honestly it almost makes sense as much as I love him......
Kane Stastny Little
Ladd Jokinen Wheeler
Wright Schiefele Tangradi
Cormier Slater Peluso

That's without any free agent signings the top lines actually look NHL calibre.

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03-07-2013, 07:25 AM
  #852
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I hope we resign Antropov. Just to see this board and 1290 callers explode with rage.

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03-07-2013, 08:41 AM
  #853
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I hope we resign Antropov. Just to see this board and 1290 callers explode with rage.
Only if he is willing to play for the league minimum.

Nobody is going to touch Antropov with a 10 foot hockey stick next season, so good luck to him on his UFA negotiations.

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03-07-2013, 08:49 AM
  #854
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Only if he is willing to play for the league minimum.

Nobody is going to touch Antropov with a 10 foot hockey stick next season, so good luck to him on his UFA negotiations.
Are you going to admit to being clueless when this statement is proven wrong?

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03-07-2013, 08:52 AM
  #855
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I wouldn't be mad if we re-signed Antropov, but I really want to move in another direction from the parts and pieces we surround our "core" with. Antropov, Wellwood, Miettinen, Ponikarovsky/Tangradi (if he doesn't show more), etc. can all go as far as I am concerned.

As for Stastny, truck you do make a very good point in that he appears to have settled as a mid-50 point center. The optimist in me believes given his true talents as a playmaker, that he could be a great match for Kane, among others such as Ladd. I suppose I look at his first 3-4 seasons and think, "maybe he can find that level again".

With the right players, I do still feel Paul Stastny could hit the 70 point mark, 20 goals, 50 assists. Evander Kane could be the perfect LW for Paul Stastny.

If it were me, i'd personally rather deal Burmistrov than Little, if a deal could be made. I know Burmistrov has potentially a higher ceiling, but really, how much higher I am not sure. Burmistrov may become a 50 point player, we hope, where as Little already is, and still young. Little is versatile in that he can play center or wing, I personally really like Little on the wing, and could see a future for him here at wing, he can play more of a shooters game there and I think he's better when he is shooting the puck more rather than playing center and trying to be the playmaker.

Burmistrov for Stastny, is what I am hoping for. I would much rather keep Little over Burmistrov.

Kane - Stastny - Wheeler
Ladd - Jokinen - Little
UFA - Scheifele - UFA
Wright - Slater -
Peluso

Sets the majority of our forward crop up nicely for next season. Fill out with a couple goal scoring top 9 wingers.


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03-07-2013, 09:24 AM
  #856
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Not against getting Stastny, but I wouldn't want to see the Jets give up good assets (Little or Burmi, etc), and then have to either deal Stastny away next trade deadline day, or potentially lose him for nothing.

I would be more comfortable getting Stastny with an extension worked out with the Jets (at a much better number than 6.6 million), than a guy with 1 year before UFA.

Because the question should probably be asked, why would a team that's looking like it won't make the playoffs, and longer still from contention, deal an asset that's under their control for , for an asset that's one year to UFA status?

Zachy Goj - You're not going to put Statsny with Wheeler? Didn't they play pretty well together during the lockout?

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03-07-2013, 09:26 AM
  #857
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Only if he is willing to play for the league minimum.

Nobody is going to touch Antropov with a 10 foot hockey stick next season, so good luck to him on his UFA negotiations.
Your going to be absolutely shocked at what Antropov gets this off-season. He's is hugely undervalued here.

Also, I think this whole find a center for Kane thing is going to be the most fruitless search of all-time. It's the same as how teams like Calgary, Columbus, Toronto have searched for centres for Iginla, Nash, and Kessel respectively, those are not players that play well with ANYBODY. Scoring wingers that create their own offense, they do not mess well with anybody. Kane is not going to suddenly start to understand how to find the soft areas on the ice since he has a good center. Will not work. There is no center out there for Kane.

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03-07-2013, 09:35 AM
  #858
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Are you going to admit to being clueless when this statement is proven wrong?
I'll admit that Chevy is clueless if he re-signs Antropov to anything above $1,000,000 per season.

Antropov 22GP - 1G - 6A - $4,750,000

So even if we take Antropov's assists as primary resulting in a goal, the Jets are paying him $678,571.43 per goal so far. And I seriously doubt that's going to change very much before the season is over.

Just because I like the Jets doesn't mean I have to look at the team with rose coloured glasses. Antropov is a piece we inherited from Atlanta... he's 6'6" playing like he's 5'6" ... can't do anything productive and his best days are far behind him... time to move on.

And just to add... seeing Burmi and Antropov sharing a joke on TV while being benched while we are getting our ***** handed to us by basically an AHL team, tells me all I need to know about where his heart is. Burmi I can forgive because he's a kid still.. Antropov should know better.


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03-07-2013, 09:38 AM
  #859
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Your going to be absolutely shocked at what Antropov gets this off-season. He's is hugely undervalued here.

Also, I think this whole find a center for Kane thing is going to be the most fruitless search of all-time. It's the same as how teams like Calgary, Columbus, Toronto have searched for centres for Iginla, Nash, and Kessel respectively, those are not players that play well with ANYBODY. Scoring wingers that create their own offense, they do not mess well with anybody. Kane is not going to suddenly start to understand how to find the soft areas on the ice since he has a good center. Will not work. There is no center out there for Kane.
You know what Holden, you may very well be right here, and likely are. I don't want to completely write it off, but you may be right on this one.

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03-07-2013, 09:48 AM
  #860
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
I'll admit that Chevy is clueless if he re-signs Antropov to anything above $1,000,000 per season.

Antropov 22GP - 1G - 6A - $4,750,000

So even if we take Antropov's assists as primary resulting in a goal, the Jets are paying him $678,571.43 per goal so far. And I seriously doubt that's going to change very much before the season is over.

Just because I like the Jets doesn't mean I have to look at the team with rose coloured glasses. Antropov is a piece we inherited from Atlanta... he's 6'6" playing like he's 5'6" ... can't do anything productive and his best days are far behind him... time to move on.

And just to add... seeing Burmi and Antropov sharing a joke on TV while being benched while we are getting our ***** handed to us by basically an AHL team, tells me all I need to know about where his heart is. Burmi I can forgive because he's a kid still.. Antropov should know better.


So much wrong here. There's just nowhere to start.

Have fun believing that.

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03-07-2013, 09:52 AM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post


So much wrong here. There's just nowhere to start.

Have fun believing that.
So prove me wrong... prove to me Antropov is worth > $5,000,000 per season.

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03-07-2013, 09:59 AM
  #862
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So prove me wrong... prove to me Antropov is worth > $5,000,000 per season.
Thats ridiculous. You are saying he isn't worth a million and when people say thats wrong (which it is) you ask them to prove he is worth over 5 million? Thats not even whats being argued.

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03-07-2013, 10:02 AM
  #863
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Your going to be absolutely shocked at what Antropov gets this off-season. He's is hugely undervalued here.

Also, I think this whole find a center for Kane thing is going to be the most fruitless search of all-time. It's the same as how teams like Calgary, Columbus, Toronto have searched for centres for Iginla, Nash, and Kessel respectively, those are not players that play well with ANYBODY. Scoring wingers that create their own offense, they do not mess well with anybody. Kane is not going to suddenly start to understand how to find the soft areas on the ice since he has a good center. Will not work. There is no center out there for Kane.
Even if they can't find a centre, they need to find a complimentary piece. A Lupul to his Kessel if you will. Kane needs somebody with enough speed and fight to collect a handful of rebounds or a passer to feed him a few more breaks.

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03-07-2013, 10:08 AM
  #864
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Thats ridiculous. You are saying he isn't worth a million and when people say thats wrong (which it is) you ask them to prove he is worth over 5 million? Thats not even whats being argued.
Sure it is.

I said Antropov is overpaid at $4,750,000 and is worth far less than that based on his current season and his becoming an UFA at his age and productivity.

the other poster said

" Your going to be absolutely shocked at what Antropov gets this off-season. He's is hugely undervalued here."

this means this person thinks Antropov is worth more than what he currently makes. So fine, if I'm wrong that he's not worth $1M then someone needs to show me why he could be worth more ( ~$5M ) than he gets now. That's what being said.

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03-07-2013, 10:12 AM
  #865
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So prove me wrong... prove to me Antropov is worth > $5,000,000 per season.
Never said he was. Not once. Antropov is overpaid.

He's worth a helluva lot more than 1 million though.

I'm bored, so let's go through your post then.

We can start easily with the fact that Antropov is not earning 4.75 million this year. In case you missed it, we had this thing called a lockout this season. So all players did not earn a full season paycheck. So toss your money per point crap out the window as well.

How about we talk about how tragically flawed that logic is then. Last I checked there is 1000x more to the game of hockey beyond the amount of points put up. Don't see players like Paul Gaustad, Sami Pahlsson, Brian Boyle, etc putting up points, yet they are very valuable players. The game of hockey involves many different aspects of the game.

Antropov is the smartest forward on the team, hands down. He knows where to be on the ice, his positioning is great. He is the only C on the team with the smarts, positioning and size to shut down opposing teams best players. His stick is very active in the D zone, makes good reads, and is therefore effective in the defensive zone. 2nd among Jets forwards in blocked shots, due to that.

How about the fact that he is the only forward on the team that agitates and gets under the skin of opposing players. He likes to yap, and take a few liberties with opposing teams players, particularly star players. That is a talent nobody else on the Jets has. At all. Oh yeah, one hit away from being 3rd among forwards in hits, behind only Kane and Burmistrov. How about that?

Wins board battles. One of the few on the team that does.

He is no longer a top 6 forward, and he is no longer worth the 4.5 million a year deal he signed. But he is still hugely valuable as a 3rd line forward that is very smart defensively, can chip in offensively, and can move into the top 6 when injuries hit bad. That is valuable.

He will get a 2-3 year deal at 1.75-3 million this off-season, no problem. Some team is going to want him to be their #3 C/RW. Bank on it.

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03-07-2013, 10:15 AM
  #866
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Sure it is.

I said Antropov is overpaid at $4,750,000 and is worth far less than that based on his current season and his becoming an UFA at his age and productivity.

the other poster said

" Your going to be absolutely shocked at what Antropov gets this off-season. He's is hugely undervalued here."

this means this person thinks Antropov is worth more than what he currently makes. So fine, if I'm wrong that he's not worth $1M then someone needs to show me why he could be worth more ( ~$5M ) than he gets now. That's what being said.
Are you kidding?!? You have to be. Have to be.

There is no way you can actually draw that conclusion from that statement.

Around here people like you and others claim he is worth less than a million, or should be sent to AHL. That is what is ridiculous and that's why I said AROUND HERE. Don't see anyone around here that handed him 4.75 million.

Wow. How in the hell...

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03-07-2013, 10:39 AM
  #867
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Never said he was. Not once. Antropov is overpaid.

He's worth a helluva lot more than 1 million though.

I'm bored, so let's go through your post then.

We can start easily with the fact that Antropov is not earning 4.75 million this year. In case you missed it, we had this thing called a lockout this season. So all players did not earn a full season paycheck. So toss your money per point crap out the window as well.

How about we talk about how tragically flawed that logic is then. Last I checked there is 1000x more to the game of hockey beyond the amount of points put up. Don't see players like Paul Gaustad, Sami Pahlsson, Brian Boyle, etc putting up points, yet they are very valuable players. The game of hockey involves many different aspects of the game.

Antropov is the smartest forward on the team, hands down. He knows where to be on the ice, his positioning is great. He is the only C on the team with the smarts, positioning and size to shut down opposing teams best players. His stick is very active in the D zone, makes good reads, and is therefore effective in the defensive zone. 2nd among Jets forwards in blocked shots, due to that.

How about the fact that he is the only forward on the team that agitates and gets under the skin of opposing players. He likes to yap, and take a few liberties with opposing teams players, particularly star players. That is a talent nobody else on the Jets has. At all. Oh yeah, one hit away from being 3rd among forwards in hits, behind only Kane and Burmistrov. How about that?

Wins board battles. One of the few on the team that does.

He is no longer a top 6 forward, and he is no longer worth the 4.5 million a year deal he signed. But he is still hugely valuable as a 3rd line forward that is very smart defensively, can chip in offensively, and can move into the top 6 when injuries hit bad. That is valuable.

He will get a 2-3 year deal at 1.75-3 million this off-season, no problem. Some team is going to want him to be their #3 C/RW. Bank on it.


Then there should be a pretty strong market for him when the trade deadline rolls along. If I'm Chevy I try to parlay him into some valuable assets and if he truly likes the player he can try to bring him back at a much more affordable cap hit next season. Asset management

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03-07-2013, 10:48 AM
  #868
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Antropov is the smartest forward on the team, hands down. He knows where to be on the ice, his positioning is great. He is the only C on the team with the smarts, positioning and size to shut down opposing teams best players. His stick is very active in the D zone, makes good reads, and is therefore effective in the defensive zone. 2nd among Jets forwards in blocked shots, due to that.
This is what I tell everyone. Have you EVER seen Antropov make a really stupid move with the puck? Or be out of place defensively? "No...." they mumble. But he's not the first man on the forecheck, so he's useless.

I guess that's what you get when talking to people who believe "hard work" (don't be fooled, what people think hard work is and what it actually is are different) is the only virtue required of a player.

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03-07-2013, 10:52 AM
  #869
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Only if he is willing to play for the league minimum.

Nobody is going to touch Antropov with a 10 foot hockey stick next season, so good luck to him on his UFA negotiations.
ill disagree with you on the league minimum but ill agree with you on the fact i cant stand him and hope to god we do not re sign him

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03-07-2013, 11:07 AM
  #870
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This is what I tell everyone. Have you EVER seen Antropov make a really stupid move with the puck? Or be out of place defensively? "No...." they mumble. But he's not the first man on the forecheck, so he's useless.

I guess that's what you get when talking to people who believe "hard work" (don't be fooled, what people think hard work is and what it actually is are different) is the only virtue required of a player.
Exactly. Completely. Skating real fast looks good, and that's how too much of hockey is judged. Like I have said before, skating is by far the most overrated attribute.

Being first on the backcheck = good defensively. Being first on the forecheck = hardest worker. etc etc. Doesn't work like that. But it's real easy and convenient to simply it like that, for some.

BTW, I am not completely advocating to re-sign Antropov. Not sure if he is going to be a complete fit here going forward, not sure how Winnipeg wants to proceed. But the claims that Antropov is worthless are false. Contending teams are going to be looking at him in the off-season.

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03-07-2013, 11:11 AM
  #871
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Being first on the backcheck = good defensively. Being first on the forecheck = hardest worker. etc etc. Doesn't work like that. But it's real easy and convenient to simply it like that, for some.
I find this isn't always the case, a lot of people rag on Hainsey because he's always the man back on goals against. Does it not occur to people that that's a GOOD thing? Yeesh.

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03-07-2013, 11:12 AM
  #872
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I find this isn't always the case, a lot of people rag on Hainsey because he's always the man back on goals against. Does it not occur to people that that's a GOOD thing? Yeesh.
That was the point of that quote

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03-07-2013, 11:17 AM
  #873
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That was the point of that quote
I don't follow. Am I being dense?

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03-07-2013, 11:21 AM
  #874
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I don't follow. Am I being dense?
(Some) People assume being first on the backcheck means that player is good defensively. Doesn't work like that. Or being first on forecheck means your the hardest worker. etc.

I'm agreeing with you, I said that it didn't work like that.

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03-07-2013, 11:37 AM
  #875
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BTW, I am not completely advocating to re-sign Antropov. Not sure if he is going to be a complete fit here going forward, not sure how Winnipeg wants to proceed. But the claims that Antropov is worthless are false. Contending teams are going to be looking at him in the off-season.
I never said Antropov is worthless, I just don't think for this franchise he is a fit anymore for what they have him here to do. I agree with what you say about his defensive play, I like that part of his game. In fact that is what I was hoping, and not getting, from Olli as well ( solid defensive play with some decent offense production thrown in ).

On this team, Antropov and Jokinen are here and expected by management to be top six forwards based on what this team is paying them ( they are the 2nd and 4th highest paid forwards on the team ) , and put up numbers accordingly. If they are to be 3rd line and 4th line players then they are both being over paid. On a already set playoff team then sure they can be solid 3rd liners to help bring a team a cup, but not on this team. We need more out of them, and if all they can be are 3rd liners or 4th liners, then pay them accordingly, or replace them with people that are 2nd line or 1st line players.


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