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03-07-2013, 10:50 AM
  #276
Morris Wanchuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Good post...can't say you're wrong here.

But like i've maintained from the beginning, I don't think any of this matters. It's just a matter of time.

There are just too many risks associated with it, look all over the sporting world with former players taking their former employers to court over concussions, etc.

it's just a matter of time...the question of whether or not fighting should remain in the game is moot IMO.

there's a bigger end-game IMO. We're in different times...
But why not put the risks on the table?

Have every player sign something foregoing their right to sue if they have head issues later in life. Put the risk on them, and if they accept, its not the NHL's problem and we can go on loving fighting.

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03-07-2013, 10:51 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
says who, you? I get that you might not understand the value of fighting but that does not mean it is useless, it means you are ignorant ( and this is not a personal insult, everyone is ignorant of something) You know who is not ignorant about the role of fighting in the game, the players. But they dont know what they hell they are talking about so lets ignore them and get back to repating half truths and outright lies in hopes that people might start beleiving them.

If the notion that fighting is condoned to sate the blood lust of vampire fans in the stands, why is it that there are fights in midnight beer leagues when there are more people on the benches than in the stand ?

I've never, ever, been to a game and heard anyone lament the lack of fights in a game, unless it was in response to something. I think that the antifighting crowd likes to imply that the profighting crowd are all in it for the sheer thrill of the violence.
Hmmm...ignorant? Maybe, i'm not an NHL player so you may have a point here.

But it doesn't mean I can't have an opinion...

Sure, I can conceed that i'm sure most players would not like have fighting removed from the game, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do

Can you picture what kind of league the NHL would be if we left all decisions about player safety up to them?

I think it's important to consider their opinions, but it doesn't mean they're right (nor does it mean they're wrong mind you).

I'm sure if it was up to most players, they would keep playing even after being concussed...but with everything we know about brain injuries today, the league is removing that power from the players hands. That's why they've come up with all these concussion protocols, because players just think about their own playing career. They don't for the most part, consider how their quality of life will be affected after they're done playing...

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03-07-2013, 10:52 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by maplehawk View Post
Unless you know what it feels like to sit on the bench and watch a teammate drop the mitts with one of the toughest guys on the other team, you really cannot say it has no effect on the game.

It has a huge effect on both teams.
Late to the thread, but...

This, this and this. Can't stress this enough. Even in a staged fight, it gets the boys on the bench pumped (win or lose) and everyone will try harder the shift after a tilt. Hockey is a game of pure passion and adrenaline and a well timed fight can be the difference between a win and a loss.

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03-07-2013, 10:52 AM
  #279
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No one forced the Sens player into a fight, he made the poor decision to fight Mclaren himself.

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03-07-2013, 10:52 AM
  #280
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Before the instigator penalty, fighting increased in the playoffs, right?


I think its more players being petrified of taking the extra 2, than not wanting to fight. Plus, now the last 5mins the game rule, it lessens it even more.

People talk about how the playoffs are so intense, I would love to see how much more entertaining it would be without the instigator. Plus, it would make the staged fights crown happy because there would be no goons playing anyways.

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03-07-2013, 10:54 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by WhalerTurnedBruin55 View Post
You are going to watch whatever the hell you want, yet complain that it isn't what you want?

NHL hockey isn't what you want to see with the way you are ranting about this whole thing. Some may be correct, maybe fighting will be eliminated one day... But it's not right now in 2013. Therefore it's part of the game now, the game you are choosing to watch. Whether I like it or you hate, it's here right now. And you continue to watch it.

As someone else said, the day the players want it out of the game should be the day it's taken out. Until then, it's part of NHL hockey. And you may think the response to just watch something else is silly or unoriginal, but no one is forcing anyone to watch NHL hockey. In North America there are plenty of hockey options that don't involve fighting, albeit now on the professional level, but again this is you choosing to watch 'whatever the hell you want lol'.
I completely disagree...this decision should not be placed in the players hands solely.

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03-07-2013, 10:55 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Hmmm...ignorant? Maybe, i'm not an NHL player so you may have a point here.

But it doesn't mean I can't have an opinion...

Sure, I can conceed that i'm sure most players would not like have fighting removed from the game, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do

Can you picture what kind of league the NHL would be if we left all decisions about player safety up to them?

I think it's important to consider their opinions, but it doesn't mean they're right (nor does it mean they're wrong mind you).
your entitled to your opinion, I never said otherwise. What your not entitled to, in my opinion, is substitute the extent of your belief to give it the same weight as the opinion of the people who have to directly fact the consequences of this choice.

I completely defer to the players. The day the players say no more fighting, I'm completely on board with this. Im just not inclined to take the opinions of people who feel that fights offend their delicate sensibilities and who will NEVER have to face the consequences of this choice.

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03-07-2013, 10:55 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
Ill give you an example from this year. John Scott vs. Scott Thorton. The Sabres are known to be bullied by the bruins for the past couple of years. John Scott fights thorton and KO's him, in Boston. It nuetered the Bruins big time. They played timid the whole game.

The Sabres won that game. A lot of people said it was because Scott KO's Thorton and set the tone. And I'm not talking fans. Players and Announcers.

What better example do you want?
Are you kidding me? There isn't a single team in the NHL that can 'neuter' the Boston Bruins.

The Buffalo Sabres, and this might be shocking, might of beat the Bruins without that fight all together...you realize that right?

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03-07-2013, 10:56 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
This is a good point.

I'm neutral about fighting. I don't mind it every now and then but don't miss it when it doesn't happen. And that's an interesting point - none of us think fighting is necessary when it doesn't happen. How many fans are watching a tight 3-3 game and thinking, "Man - we really need a fight!"? I admit when I think of the best playoff games/series, I don't remember the fights and probably couldn't tell you if there were any.

Plenty of regular season games have zero fights; very few playoff games have any fighting. None of us complain when fights DON'T happen organically - we're just complaining about the idea that they might NOT BE ALLOWED to happen. Fighting could secretly have been banned in some previous playoff year and none of us even realized it.

I'm not sure I'm in favour of banning it, but let's not dress-up fighting as being Integral!, Momentum-Building!, Character-Building!, and all those other lame cliches. It's a fun sideshow, nothing more. When a fight starts, the game stops.

And for those saying, "Go watch ballet/ice-skating/whatever" - spare me. This is a worthwhile discussion. Disagree with intelligence, not silly words.
Well said...agreed 100%

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03-07-2013, 10:57 AM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Are you kidding me? There isn't a single team in the NHL that can 'neuter' the Boston Bruins.

The Buffalo Sabres, and this might be shocking, might of beat the Bruins without that fight all together...you realize that right?
I was at the games, sucked all the life out the building. Buffalo has been our *****es for a few years now, but the feeling after the Scott fight was terrible.

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03-07-2013, 10:58 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
But why not put the risks on the table?

Have every player sign something foregoing their right to sue if they have head issues later in life. Put the risk on them, and if they accept, its not the NHL's problem and we can go on loving fighting.
You realize this would never happen right?

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03-07-2013, 11:01 AM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
your entitled to your opinion, I never said otherwise. What your not entitled to, in my opinion, is substitute the extent of your belief to give it the same weight as the opinion of the people who have to directly fact the consequences of this choice.

I completely defer to the players. The day the players say no more fighting, I'm completely on board with this. Im just not inclined to take the opinions of people who feel that fights offend their delicate sensibilities and who will NEVER have to face the consequences of this choice.
Fair enough...but again, I don't think it's right to completely defer to the players.

If it was up to the players, any hit that resulted in a concussion, they would just take some smelling salts and go right back on the ice (like they used to do)

But the NHL has instituted protocols to in essence, save players from themselves (and cover their own ***** at the same time).

So you have solid point...but I don't think it's well developped

But good post

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03-07-2013, 11:03 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
I was at the games, sucked all the life out the building. Buffalo has been our *****es for a few years now, but the feeling after the Scott fight was terrible.
How was the Boston fans after Zdeno Chara & Milan Lucic took down Emelin & Prust the other night? Bet they were all giddy and transmitted their momentum to the Bruins players

How did that serve them in the 3rd period?

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03-07-2013, 11:03 AM
  #289
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The anti-fighting crowd can ***** and moan all they like but the rest of us have nothing to worry about. Do you know who wants fighting in the game? Players, coaches, and owners. And do you know who owns the channels that NHL games are played on? Ed Snider, the owner of the Flyers. Do you really think the guy would be on board with this? If he doesn't like it he could easily pull the plug on the tv deal.

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03-07-2013, 11:04 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
I agree, I dont like it much either but when the majority of their opposition is based on half truths and lies, or is based exclusively on their own sense of what is best, things can go south pretty quick.
Can you acknowledge that players, as much as they may be better placed to speak on fighting as anyone, may not be best placed to determine what's best for them and the long term health of the league?

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03-07-2013, 11:06 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Fleury4ever View Post
Ask them if they want Kaleta/Cooke/John Scott/Thornton etc. out of the game but keep the fighting.
How about to make it a valid statistic you ask all what 1000+ players?

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03-07-2013, 11:06 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Can you acknowledge that players, as much as they may be better placed to speak on fighting as anyone, may not be best placed to determine what's best for them and the long term health of the league?
the NHLPA disagrees with this opinion

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03-07-2013, 11:06 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
The anti-fighting crowd can ***** and moan all they like but the rest of us have nothing to worry about. Do you know who wants fighting in the game? Players, coaches, and owners. And do you know who owns the channels that NHL games are played on? Ed Snider, the owner of the Flyers. Do you really think the guy would be on board with this? If he doesn't like it he could easily pull the plug on the tv deal.
So Snider owns TSN, CBC, NBC, The NHL Network?

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03-07-2013, 11:08 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
the NHLPA disagrees with this opinion
can you elaborate?

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03-07-2013, 11:08 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
You realize this would never happen right?
Ya because parents will put their kids in hockey if that where to happen. Oh wait, parents already don't put their kids in hockey...

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03-07-2013, 11:08 AM
  #296
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Originally Posted by droid56 View Post
No other major team sport allows fighting. You know this.

Does NHL hockey allow fighting because it isn't confident that it will be sufficiently popular without it?

I watched a fight in the Ottawa-Toronto match just barely into the game. The fight had nothing to do with the game. It was just a show.

The player knocked out probably excited some viewers, but a very few were turned off. And that includes me. When I watch an NHL fight, if the fighters just do their thing without any significant damage, I can handle it. But what I saw in that game made me turn the channel.

Yes, I know you want me to find another sport such as curling.

But I've been watching hockey since the days of Henri Richard, and I don't want to watch anymore.

But I know I am a tiny minority, so please ignore my post.
And you're upset NOWADAYS about what is happening?!?!?!?!? Not back then...?

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03-07-2013, 11:10 AM
  #297
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I don't care a great deal either way about fighting in hockey, but this comparison between it and "not wearing helmets" and "goalies not wearing masks" is honestly driving me up the wall.

It's a deeply flawed comparison.

There's a key difference between "fighting in hockey", "players not wearing helmets", and "goalies not wearing masks".

That difference is this...


If you're playing hockey, and nobody is wearing helmets, then everybody is at danger from that.

If you're playing hockey, and no goalie is wearing masks, then every goalie is at danger from that.

Having helmets and masks as parts of the game is just basic safety precautions for all of your players.


But not everybody fights. Loads of NHLers pretty much never fight. Most star NHLers might get into a fight once or twice in their entire careers, if that.

In other words, fighting is totally, 100% voluntary. Most NHLers don't have to do it in order to be a NHLer. And as long as most players never or very rarely do it, it's something that's basically manageable. It's not at all comparable to not wearing helmets, or not wearing masks.


So I honestly think that you guys who are so sure fighting will be gone in 10 to 15 years might be surprised to see where the game is in 10 to 15 years. People have been debating over fighting in hockey for at least 15 years, and it's still here...

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03-07-2013, 11:11 AM
  #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
This is a good point.

I'm neutral about fighting. I don't mind it every now and then but don't miss it when it doesn't happen. And that's an interesting point - none of us think fighting is necessary when it doesn't happen. How many fans are watching a tight 3-3 game and thinking, "Man - we really need a fight!"? I admit when I think of the best playoff games/series, I don't remember the fights and probably couldn't tell you if there were any.

When I was looking up the numbers to find out how many fights there are per playoff game, I noticed that Kyle Chipchura received a fighting major. I can remember nearly every goal from every Coyotes playoff game, and yet I can't even remember which series Chipchura's fought in, much less the game. When the hockey is good (and hard hitting), the sideshow isn't necessary.

Again, I don't advocate banning fighting, but it sure has become superfluous.

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03-07-2013, 11:12 AM
  #299
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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
I don't care a great deal either way about fighting in hockey, but this comparison between it and "not wearing helmets" and "goalies not wearing masks" is honestly driving me up the wall.

It's a deeply flawed comparison.

There's a key difference between "fighting in hockey", "players not wearing helmets", and "goalies not wearing masks".

That difference is this...


If you're playing hockey, and nobody is wearing helmets, then everybody is at danger from that.

If you're playing hockey, and no goalie is wearing masks, then every goalie is at danger from that.

Having helmets and masks as parts of the game is just basic safety precautions for all of your players.


But not everybody fights. Loads of NHLers pretty much never fight. Most star NHLers might get into a fight once or twice in their entire careers, if that.

In other words, fighting is totally, 100% voluntary. Most NHLers don't have to do it in order to be a NHLer. And as long as most players never or very rarely do it, it's something that's basically manageable. It's not at all comparable to not wearing helmets, or not wearing masks.


So I honestly think that you guys who are so sure fighting will be gone in 10 to 15 years might be surprised to see where the game is in 10 to 15 years. People have been debating over fighting in hockey for at least 15 years, and it's still here...
Well obviously...the MAJORITY of players, probably a great deal of those 98% who voted on that dumb *** CBC poll DON'T ACTUALLY FIGHT.

So of course, they don't want fighting removed...they're not fighting.

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03-07-2013, 11:13 AM
  #300
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I completely disagree...this decision should not be placed in the players hands solely.
You completely disagree and ignore everything else that was said in the post.

It wouldn't be solely up to them. But as NHL players involved they are the ones participating in the game. The game that involves having fights occasionally.

Again, one day it may be out of the game. Maybe you (or someone with your mindset) will join the NHL on the adminstrative level and implement this change.

But right now it's part of the NHL that you are chosing to watch, love it or hate it.

As I stated, there are other versions of hockey that it isn't part of the game, leagues where fighting isn't tolerated at all (and yes, by the NHL tolerating fighting, it's part of the game, an infraction, but part of it).

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