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NYT: Bargaining for Rights in Exchange for NHL in Olympics (UPD: Daly in Sochi)

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Old
03-06-2013, 10:52 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolForumNamePending View Post
Did any of the profits earned from the last World Cup trickle down to the national federations of the 8 invited nations or did it all go to the righteous cause that was the NHL & NHLPA lockout war chests?
It all went to the lock-out war chests. Not entirely sure if they split the revenue or if it all went to the NHLPA as in the past.

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Old
03-06-2013, 10:54 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
No idea where the profit went. The only team that might need non-NHLers is Slovakia, but I could be wrong on that. The rest could easily fill their team with NHLers. If something is done and Russia wants to be dumb enough to fill their team with KHL'ers that is their perogative, but they will get destroyed.
Finland would need European based players as well. Unless they change the rules so we can play multiple goalies at the same time.

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Old
03-07-2013, 12:56 AM
  #178
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Keep in mind some of these teams could be filled out with AHL players that have two-way NHL contracts or previously drafted CHL based players with NHL ties.

I know Tomas Tatar would be an example of a guy who played for Slovakia last year in the World Championships but was an AHL player.

It would no doubt hurt the way the tournament is looked at, but it can be done that way if the NHL makes that choice.

This could also be greatly impacted on how teams get guys back. So the KHL blocks this, but I imagine the teams in Finland and Sweden for instance would be very concerned about the players they get loaned back. Jarnkrok and Pulkkinen are both under contract with the Wings and loaned back, no reason to do that if the NHL exerts pressure to not allow that system in place and a decent threat for both of those countries.

I don't want to watch this play out in a bad way, they should just get highlights and some other things. Not a ton, but some things, otherwise the NHL can and probably should make this ugly. It would be bad for hockey, but cornering them probably won't take them down a notch like the KHL and some European hockey fans hope for. It will get them to come out swinging in an even harsher way, you think they are bullies now? Careful on the backlash if they do take a pass because the IOC doesn't budge, they can control a lot of what happens hockey wise. It is why the Olympics/FIFA don't make this fight with the major club soccer teams when they don't need to.


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03-07-2013, 05:51 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/04/sp...pics.html?_r=0



Would it really be the end of the world if they received the rights to highlights from Olympics broadcasts?

I think the NHL does want some money, and seeing how huge of a draw men's ice hockey is for the Winter Games-- I don't blame them for trying to get a cut. The risk and cost to NHL teams is not insignificant.
Is hockey really that big of a draw for the Olympics? Isn't figure skating miles above everything else as far as ratings go?

I really don't think the IOC cares if NHL players participate or not. It's the Olympic brand and it will do well regardless if it's NHL players or beer leaguers. Similarly, the IOC has no reason to care how much "risk and cost" there is to NHL teams.

I'll be very surprised if the IOC even takes the NHL's bargaining seriously. The NHL thinks it's a bigger deal than it is, it should be thankful that they have the Olympic stage to promote their product on and move on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
Yah, because there is already a tournament only held in one continent and it's called the World Championships.
Canada just hosted not too long ago.... Just because Hockey Canada and USA Hockey never bid for the World Championships doesn't mean it's only a European event.

That's the thing about the IIHF, it's an INTERNATIONAL federation. It's not biased towards Europe like so many people like to think. Some countries just think they're too good to do things the rest of the world does. coughNHLcough


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Old
03-07-2013, 06:30 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
What does the NHL gain from participating in the Olympics?

The NHL is allowing talent that it has grown, refined and brought to international recognition to be used for the profit of another organization. Even if the cost to them is $0 (which it isn't, either in terms of real costs or potential costs due to injury/fatigue) they still have negotiating power due to the fact that the gain for the IOC is massive.
Ah, so the NHL runs all the youth hockey programs in Canada that develops their talent, not Hockey Canada? I guess I'll have to agree with you then. Hockey Canada obviously has no claim to that talent so they shouldn't want to have them as representatives at the Olympics.

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03-07-2013, 06:54 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
Ah, so the NHL runs all the youth hockey programs in Canada that develops their talent, not Hockey Canada? I guess I'll have to agree with you then. Hockey Canada obviously has no claim to that talent so they shouldn't want to have them as representatives at the Olympics.
Hockey Canada has issues with the IOC just like the NHL does.

Do you think Hockey Canada was happy that they were not allowed to use their federation's logo in Vancouver?

The Olympics are run with an iron fist, and with no North American host nations on the horizon, the NHL and the individual federations will be much less less inclined to jump through the IOC's hoops.

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03-07-2013, 07:18 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by CoolForumNamePending View Post
Nearly half the '98 Czech Roster was European based players. The rosters of the two finalists in '06 had 12 European based players between them. As long as the KHL is around from here on out it is probably safe to say at least a third of the Russian roster is going to be from outside the NHL. My point is if you want to have a legit 'best vs best' tournament it is going to require the co-operations of more than just the NHL and NHLPA. You are going to need to have the national federations and pro leagues in Europe on board as well.
The Czech Republic won in 98 because of Hasek. I was in Prague 2 weeks ago and they replayed the medal round games on some Czech sports channel. He was unreal, especially in the game against Canada.

3 of the 12 in 2006 were back-up goalies and none were major contributors.

With the exception of maybe Radulov, anyone on Russia's roster from the KHL is purely political and just an attempt by the Russian Federation to make it seem like the KHL is better than what it is.

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03-07-2013, 07:19 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
Ah, so the NHL runs all the youth hockey programs in Canada that develops their talent, not Hockey Canada? I guess I'll have to agree with you then. Hockey Canada obviously has no claim to that talent so they shouldn't want to have them as representatives at the Olympics.
I would say the NHL has a hell of a lot more pull with Hockey Canada than the IOC or IIHF.

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03-07-2013, 07:37 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
The Czech Republic won in 98 because of Hasek. I was in Prague 2 weeks ago and they replayed the medal round games on some Czech sports channel. He was unreal, especially in the game against Canada.
Yeah right, I'm sure Czechia outshot Canada because of Hašek

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03-07-2013, 08:18 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
Canada just hosted not too long ago.... Just because Hockey Canada and USA Hockey never bid for the World Championships doesn't mean it's only a European event.

That's the thing about the IIHF, it's an INTERNATIONAL federation. It's not biased towards Europe like so many people like to think. Some countries just think they're too good to do things the rest of the world does. coughNHLcough
Wow, once in the last 50 years it has been held outside of Europe, that actually proves my point. The IIHF is and always has been biased towards Europe, its very structure guarantees this. Democracy is about people, not countries, having an equal say and one of the major problems with the IIHF and other international bodies today is that they are fundamentally undemocratic. The thing I find funny is when a group (or country) of 3 million people think they should have the same say about the affairs of the world as a group of 300 million people does, now that's arrogance for you.

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03-07-2013, 08:56 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
Hockey Canada has issues with the IOC just like the NHL does.

Do you think Hockey Canada was happy that they were not allowed to use their federation's logo in Vancouver?
.... seriously? Hockey Canada would put Ronald McDonald on their jerseys if it meant having their best products represent them on the world's biggest stage for the sport, rather than European-based professionals who will most likely never win a medal.

I can't believe you're comparing a logo to a federation actually getting something in return for the work it puts into the development of the sport in their country.

Quote:
The Olympics are run with an iron fist, and with no North American host nations on the horizon, the NHL and the individual federations will be much less less inclined to jump through the IOC's hoops.
But they will. The Olympics are still a great marketing tool considering far more people watch Olympic hockey than NHL hockey. Plus any negative backlash from NBC, who the NHL is desperately reliant on, makes a 9 day longer season not seem so bad.

Bettman is bluffing. He has no real choices in the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
I would say the NHL has a hell of a lot more pull with Hockey Canada than the IOC or IIHF.
I'm not sure about that, but Canada was just an example. You can replace Hockey Canada with any national federation to make the same point.

Except maybe USA Hockey, because I know they get a **** ton of money from the NHL. Hockey Canada I'm not so sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
Wow, once in the last 50 years it has been held outside of Europe, that actually proves my point. The IIHF is and always has been biased towards Europe, its very structure guarantees this. Democracy is about people, not countries, having an equal say and one of the major problems with the IIHF and other international bodies today is that they are fundamentally undemocratic. The thing I find funny is when a group (or country) of 3 million people think they should have the same say about the affairs of the world as a group of 300 million people does, now that's arrogance for you.
I'm sorry, but not every person in Canada is a member of the IIHF. There is only one member of the IIHF per country, the national federation. That's why it's international, and not the Canadian hockey federation.

Like I said, Hockey Canada can bid to host the WHC any time they want. They would probably get it fairly easily too. How exactly is that biased towards Europe? The IIHF can't force Canada to host something.

It's the same way with the World Juniors, and how they can't force Europe to host it if they don't want to. But I guess holding the World Juniors in Canada every other year is bias towards Europe too?


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03-07-2013, 09:11 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
The Czech Republic won in 98 because of Hasek. I was in Prague 2 weeks ago and they replayed the medal round games on some Czech sports channel. He was unreal, especially in the game against Canada.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
Yeah right, I'm sure Czechia outshot Canada because of Hašek
Ya... The idea that Hasek stole the gold medal in '98 is myth. Know doubt he was great, but most teams that do well usually do have great goaltending. You could argue that the CR had the better run of play in the majority of both the SF and Final.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
3 of the 12 in 2006 were back-up goalies and none were major contributors.
Even excluding the goalies that is still 20-25%, a significant chunk, of the rosters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
With the exception of maybe Radulov, anyone on Russia's roster from the KHL is purely political and just an attempt by the Russian Federation to make it seem like the KHL is better than what it is.
The amount of Russians playing in the NHL in the last decade or so has dropped from high 60s to low 20s... If you think every single Russian player left in the NHL is better than any Russian playing in the KHL (excluding Radulov) I really don't know what to say.

The bottom line is if you want a legit 'best vs best' tournament run by the NHL/NHLPA you are still going to have to have other leagues/national federations involved.


Last edited by CoolForumNamePending: 03-07-2013 at 10:04 AM. Reason: I don't know how to spell... Probably still have plenty of mistakes.
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Old
03-07-2013, 09:27 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
I'm sorry, but not every person in Canada is a member of the IIHF. There is only one member of the IIHF per country, the national federation. That's why it's international, and not the Canadian hockey federation.
Actually every registered player in Canada and in every other country is by extension ultimately a member of the IIHF, and roughly 70% of the world's registered players are in NA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
Like I said, Hockey Canada can bid to host the WHC any time they want. They would probably get it fairly easily too. How exactly is that biased towards Europe? The IIHF can't force Canada to host something.
With 70% of its constituents in NA you would think that the IIHF would have done a bit more to promote having the World Championships over here, at least more than two times per century. The truth is however that it was never the IIHF's intention to have them held outside of Europe. Before any significant number of Europeans played in the NHL the IIHF and IOC did everything in their power to keep North America's top players out of their tournaments and holding the WC during the NA playoff season was one of the ways they accomplished this. By having the WC during playoff season you pretty much write off any arena with a full time NHL, AHL or NBA tenant from applying to host the WC since they don't know if their team will be in the playoffs years ahead of time when the WC bids are made. The systemic discrimination the IIHF is guilty of against NA over the years has made WC a lost cause in this continent.

The amount of opportunity the IIHF has squandered with their Eurocentric policies is almost hard to comprehend. Corporations like the NHL are expected to act in their own self interest, the way the IIHF historically has acted in favour of such a small minority is inexcusible for an "International" organization.

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03-07-2013, 09:51 AM
  #189
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Yeah right, I'm sure Czechia outshot Canada because of Hašek
So, because he didn't face as many shots he can't steal the game? Try watching the game instead of reading the scoresheet.

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03-07-2013, 10:00 AM
  #190
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I support the NHL as well. They're the ones who lose 2 weeks of the season and get nothing in return for it. Hopefully this works itself though and we see the best hockey players in the world playing in Sochi next year.

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03-07-2013, 10:14 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
So, because he didn't face as many shots he can't steal the game? Try watching the game instead of reading the scoresheet.
If anything Roy kept Canada in the game at all but sure the defeat is all down to Hašek "stealing" Canada's game

What's the excuse for the defeat in the Finland game, again? What about the QF exit in 2006, surely you also have an excuse to explain away that defeat against yet another team with a significant number of Europe-based players?

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03-07-2013, 10:18 AM
  #192
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Back on track please

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03-07-2013, 10:24 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
As much as I love seeing NHLers play in the Olympics, I'm completely on the NHL's side in this. Men's ice hockey is the Winters Olympics' biggest moneymaker. Why allow the Olympics to make big money off of NHL players under contract when the NHL isn't even allowed to use footage from those events in marketing?
Agreed. I am definitely on the NHL's side here.

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03-07-2013, 11:06 AM
  #194
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Alittle OT, but didn't the IIHF and Hockey Canada come to a deal? Canade holds more WJCs and agrees to not bid on the WHC for like 5-7 years?

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03-07-2013, 11:32 AM
  #195
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people keep saying that hockey is the biggest moneymaker for the Olympics, but the truth is that the figure skating is what really draws people in. Much like the summer Olympics, most of the viewership of the winter games are driven by women, only to a greater degree since the Winter Olympics are held during sweeps and are therefore capable of even bigger ratings. So just like basketball isn't the big event in summer, hockey isn't even close to the figure skating.

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03-07-2013, 11:48 AM
  #196
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Wasn't it speculated when NBC signed their deal with the IOC that there was a NHL clause? Maybe that's why it seems like they don't care too much about what happens. If the NHL no-shows, they pay less money to the IOC in compensation, and just play more figure skating and snowboarding instead of hockey. If the NHL does show up ok, they then pump up the hockey games.

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03-07-2013, 11:57 AM
  #197
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Some threads from our archives.

This post is from a thread that tracked the national and local ratings for hockey during the last Olympics. The Gold Medal game was watched by nearly 60 million people between the US and Canada:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=327



NBC's bid for the next four games, how NHL plays into the Winter games:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=908090

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=861188

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03-07-2013, 12:25 PM
  #198
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Alittle OT, but didn't the IIHF and Hockey Canada come to a deal? Canade holds more WJCs and agrees to not bid on the WHC for like 5-7 years?
I can't imagine there would really be all that much interest in the World Championships in Canada considering the NHL is in the middle of the play-offs and most of Canada's best players do not play.

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03-07-2013, 12:28 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Some threads from our archives.

This post is from a thread that tracked the national and local ratings for hockey during the last Olympics. The Gold Medal game was watched by nearly 60 million people between the US and Canada:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=327



NBC's bid for the next four games, how NHL plays into the Winter games:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=908090

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=861188
I noticed this post of yours from one of those threads covered the Olympic Revenue issue in detail: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=10

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03-07-2013, 01:22 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
I noticed this post of yours from one of those threads covered the Olympic Revenue issue in detail: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=10
And from what I know, no NHL World Cup I think has even come close to distributions like this from the tourney, in terms of %.

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