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Old
03-07-2013, 01:05 PM
  #101
BigG44
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Greg Carey, LW
Junior, St. Lawrence University

After leading (or co-leading) the Saints in scoring in his first two years, Greg Carey is on pace to make it three and eclipse the 50-point mark this season. He currently ranks second in the nation with 48 points and leads the nation with 26 goals, which includes his NCAA-leading 12 power-play goals in 34 games to date. He is part of the nation’s most prolific line combination that also includes senior Kyle Flanagan and junior Jeremy Wick. Carey’s most remarkable stat is that he has been held goalless in only 11 games so far this season. In St. Lawrence’s game versus Dartmouth on Feb. 23rd, Carey tied the school record for consecutive games (11) with a goal. Among the NHL teams that have shown an interest in Carey are the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Dallas Stars. He had a strong showing at the Maple Leafs' prospect camp this past summer and attended the Stars prospect camp in 2011.

Simply put, Carey is a goal-scorer that knows what to do with the puck when it’s on his stick. One of the things that makes Carey so dangerous with the puck is his wickedly quick shot and release. At times, he can make scoring goals look effortless and can score from just about anywhere. Carey is always a threat around the net, particularly in the slot, and is willing to pay the price in front, too. The Hamilton, ON native isn’t big (5’11”, 195 lbs.) in stature but he’s quick and elusive. Carey is a tough competitor that is willing to play the body when necessary. He possesses a junkyard dog-type of mentality when battling for pucks. Carey is an excellent skater with quick feet who transition's quite well. While he is noted more for his goal-scoring prowess, Carey is also an adept playmaker. He has great hands and puck-moving ability. Carey possesses great vision and does a very good job of reading and staying with plays. One area where Carey has improved over the course of his collegiate career is his defensive side. His excellent stick work allows him to effectively take away lanes and he has also shown a willingness to block shots.

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03-07-2013, 01:12 PM
  #102
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From the article above, Sustr (because of his size) has always been a guy I've wanted to see land in Dallas. You'd think the number of Czech prospects Dallas has could be a positive for him when making a decision, but it's difficult to see a D look at Dallas' depth and then sign here.

That said, this guy seems to fit the Dallas mold even better than Sustr possibly. I've not heard of him before, but if this scouting report is accurate, I could see Dallas heavily pursuing him.

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Shayne Taker, D
Junior, University of Notre Dame

Shayne Taker (pronounced “tacker”) is part of Notre Dame’s excellent and very mobile defensive corps. At 6’4” and 201 pounds, he is one of the Fighting Irish’s biggest rearguards. He and senior defensive partner Sam Calabrese have played together all season in both even strength and power-play situations. The Surrey, BC native has played in all 36 games to date, posting 13 points (one goal, 12 assists). Taker’s lone goal so far, a power-play tally, came back on Dec. 15th versus Bowling Green. His 13 points is nearly double what he posted last season. Taker began gaining NHL interest last season, and a number of teams continue to eye the junior defenseman. One of them is the Vancouver Canucks, whose prospect camp Taker attended this past summer.

Taker is an excellent skating, puck-moving defenseman. He plays a solid two-way game, but where he has really begun to blossom is on offense. This season, he sees regular time on Notre Dame’s power-play and can be seen jumping up into plays, as well. His growing offensive side hasn’t come at the expense of his outstanding defensive side, either. Taker has shown more confidence and patience with the puck and he’s making better decisions. That has resulted in smarter puck movement, especially in his outlet passes. Taker possesses a hard shot that has developed more velocity thanks to his added physical strength. One of Taker’s best attributes and one scouts have taken notice of is his skating. He is very mobile with good speed and acceleration. His noticeably improved feet have significantly enhanced his transitioning, while making his strides smoother. Taker is a fierce competitor that also brings a physical element to his game. While he’s not afraid to mix things up, Taker has also shown that he can play with discipline.

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03-07-2013, 01:19 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
I would rather see Roussell stay on the 2nd line and Whitney or Cole move to the 3rd to try to spark some more consistent offense from Eakin and Smith.

Who knows how long it will take Whitney to get back to full speed and how long Morrow will be around.
I think it depends on the game. Against L.A., which is a big team, Whitney and Roy on the same line scares me a bit because of size, so Roussel being up there is acceptable. Against other teams, not so much. I expect Roussel to move up and down depending on the opponent and injuries.

We are brimming over with top 6 guys. Not sure when that last happened.

Not saying roussel is top 6 btw, even if he does look good there from time to time. Ott did too for small stretches.

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03-07-2013, 01:41 PM
  #104
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I think it depends on the game. Against L.A., which is a big team, Whitney and Roy on the same line scares me a bit because of size, so Roussel being up there is acceptable. Against other teams, not so much. I expect Roussel to move up and down depending on the opponent and injuries.

We are brimming over with top 6 guys. Not sure when that last happened.

Not saying roussel is top 6 btw, even if he does look good there from time to time. Ott did too for small stretches.
Oh yeah, this is really a great feeling. Hey remember Brendan Seagal and Brian Sutherby?

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03-07-2013, 02:00 PM
  #105
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Speaking of undrafted NCAA prospects, Nate Schmidt is a guy I would love to sign. He is an offensive d-man playing for the Univ. of Minnesota.

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03-07-2013, 03:06 PM
  #106
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Reminds me of my favorite analogy Ross Perot told during his first campaign against Clinton. "Governor Clinton likes to brag that he doubled education spending while Governor of Arkansas. That is true. He did double it. But it is like if you have one penny and find another penny. You have doubled your money, but you still only have two pennies."

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03-07-2013, 03:16 PM
  #107
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Speaking of undrafted NCAA prospects, Nate Schmidt is a guy I would love to sign. He is an offensive d-man playing for the Univ. of Minnesota.
was hoping the stars would have drafted this guy a couple times now. Maybe now he is on their radar and they can get him for free.

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03-07-2013, 05:45 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
That said, this guy seems to fit the Dallas mold even better than Sustr possibly. I've not heard of him before, but if this scouting report is accurate, I could see Dallas heavily pursuing him.
The last free agent defenseman we signed from Surrey has turned out pretty well for us. Taker's style actually sounds like it would be good to pair with Dillon as well.

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03-09-2013, 08:43 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
I think the amateur scouting group has more than proven they know what they're doing. Not sold on the pro scouts or J. Niewendyk and his group that makes trades but as pure talent evaluators it's hard to argue against their growing track record. Glennie and Campbell not withstanding.
Definitely agree. Our pro scouts blow, and Joe's trades are horrible.

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03-10-2013, 03:18 PM
  #110
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Definitely agree. Our pro scouts blow, and Joe's trades are horrible.
Derek Roy. Cody Eakin. Kari Lehtonen.

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03-10-2013, 03:22 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
Derek Roy. Cody Eakin. Kari Lehtonen.
The list is longer for failures, and Eakin's belongs in the amateur scouts category. He was only a first year pro last season, and the team mentioned they've been watching him since juniors. Even Gaglardi said he really liked him based on his viewings from Eakin playing against Kamloops.

The pro scouts lately have done nothing to give anyone realistic confidence. Everyone knew Kari Lehtonen was highly talented. It was a matter of could he stay healthy. His success is on the trainers in Dallas and Lethonen's willingness to change and develop new, better habits.

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03-10-2013, 03:24 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
The list is longer for failures, and Eakin's belongs in the amateur scouts category. He was only a first year pro last season, and the team mentioned they've been watching him since juniors. Even Gaglardi said he really liked him based on his viewings from Eakin playing against Kamloops.

The pro scouts lately have done nothing to give anyone realistic confidence. Everyone knew Kari Lehtonen was highly talented. It was a matter of could he stay healthy. His success is on the trainers in Dallas and Lethonen's willingness to change and develop new, better habits.
I can think of Goligoski, and that's about it. Who else have we traded for that sucked? Even Eric Cole looks great for us, he seems to be a really good fit here.

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03-10-2013, 03:33 PM
  #113
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I can think of Goligoski, and that's about it. Who else have we traded for that sucked? Even Eric Cole looks great for us, he seems to be a really good fit here.
Pro scouts = free agency as well. They've taken risks with big contracts to Pardy and Rome. Pardy was a disaster. Rome has been OK, but he's also been an injury risk in his career and that continues. Fiddler has been awesome as a 4th liner this year, but they paid him like a 3rd line center.

More importantly ... Goligoski isn't just a throw in mention. He's a pretty massive mistake. They traded one of their top young wings for a guy they said was a top pairing D. Now, Goli has proved he can put up points, but he's a 3rd pair D at ES at best. I really think he can find some success in Dallas, but he's no where near worth what you paid to get him. That's a major blunder to trade a early 20's Top 6 winger for an offensive D that can't successfully play against the other team's top competition.

Amateur scouts on this team win in a land slide .... and that's saying something considering they are projecting 17 to 20 year old players to pros when a pro scout is looking at pro players in a pro league.

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03-10-2013, 03:37 PM
  #114
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Pro scouts = free agency as well. They've taken risks with big contracts to Pardy and Rome. Pardy was a disaster. Rome has been OK, but he's also been an injury risk in his career and that continues. Fiddler has been awesome as a 4th liner this year, but they paid him like a 3rd line center.

More importantly ... Goligoski isn't just a throw in mention. He's a pretty massive mistake. They traded one of their top young wings for a guy they said was a top pairing D. Now, Goli has proved he can put up points, but he's a 3rd pair D at ES at best. I really think he can find some success in Dallas, but he's no where near worth what you paid to get him. That's a major blunder to trade a early 20's Top 6 winger for an offensive D that can't successfully play against the other team's top competition.

Amateur scouts on this team win in a land slide.
They signed Ryder, he put up a career high # of goals last season. They signed Jagr, he's leading the team in goals and PP goals. They signed Whitney, yeah he broke his foot but he was playing quite well before that. We've got one of the most potent offenses we've had in years, but our pro scouts obviously suck so much. Hell, our power play that was 30th in the league is now in the top half. Pro scouts got no clue.

Goligoski came here and lit it up after the trade. His season last season wasn't nearly as bad as this season. He's also slowly putting up the points this season. His defense needs improving but he's offensively getting better. James Neal never even hit 30 goals the entire time he was here, and his point production wasn't even that of last year's Benn. I'm sure we've all seen the argument before that Neal wouldn't be a 40g scorer in Dallas, no need to rehash that crap. I'm sure you know it as well.

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03-10-2013, 05:28 PM
  #115
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They signed Ryder, he put up a career high # of goals last season. They signed Jagr, he's leading the team in goals and PP goals. They signed Whitney, yeah he broke his foot but he was playing quite well before that. We've got one of the most potent offenses we've had in years, but our pro scouts obviously suck so much. Hell, our power play that was 30th in the league is now in the top half. Pro scouts got no clue.

Goligoski came here and lit it up after the trade. His season last season wasn't nearly as bad as this season. He's also slowly putting up the points this season. His defense needs improving but he's offensively getting better. James Neal never even hit 30 goals the entire time he was here, and his point production wasn't even that of last year's Benn. I'm sure we've all seen the argument before that Neal wouldn't be a 40g scorer in Dallas, no need to rehash that crap. I'm sure you know it as well.
I'll give you Ryder (even though he already had history as a 30 goal Top 6 scorer with MTL), but you're telling me people around the league couldn't tell you exactly what you were going to get when you signed Whitney and Jagr?

I'm not rehashing the Neal trade. We're talking about pro scouts, and you can't say ignore the biggest move the pro scouts have been major players in as part of the discussion. I don't care what Neal could have been or would have been in this discussion. I never mentioned that. The fact is he was a Top 6 LW in the organization in his early 20's, and they traded him for what has so far equated to a 3rd pair offensive defenseman. In terms of scouting, that's a major mistake. That's not a knock on Goli ... he is what he is.

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03-10-2013, 05:29 PM
  #116
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I'll give you Ryder (even though he already had history as a 30 goal Top 6 scorer with MTL), but you're telling me people around the league couldn't tell you exactly what you were going to get when you signed Whitney and Jagr?

I'm not rehashing the Neal trade. We're talking about pro scouts, and you can't say ignore the biggest move the pro scouts have been major players in as part of the discussion. I don't care what Neal could have been or would have been in this discussion. I never mentioned that. The fact is he was a Top 6 LW in the organization in his early 20's, and they traded him for what has so far equated to a 3rd pair offensive defenseman. In terms of scouting, that's a major mistake. That's not a knock on Goli ... he is what he is.
You're telling me you can't ignore Neal all while you're ignoring the good they've done. They've had one major blunder and many major successes, yet you claim the blunders far outweigh the success. You can't have it both ways.

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03-10-2013, 05:36 PM
  #117
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You're telling me you can't ignore Neal all while you're ignoring the good they've done. They've had one major blunder and many major successes, yet you claim the blunders far outweigh the success. You can't have it both ways.
Their blunders do far outweigh their success. That's my opinion, and I'm not ignoring anything.

When you compare the accomplishments of the amateur scouts to the pro scouts, they're blowing them out of the water. That's exactly what the conversation HullFan started is about.

I'm not going to praise a group of people who have a few examples of moderate success, a major blunder, and several other mistakes.

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03-10-2013, 06:05 PM
  #118
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Their blunders do far outweigh their success. That's my opinion, and I'm not ignoring anything.

When you compare the accomplishments of the amateur scouts to the pro scouts, they're blowing them out of the water. That's exactly what the conversation HullFan started is about.

I'm not going to praise a group of people who have a few examples of moderate success, a major blunder, and several other mistakes.
You won't give them any credit for Kari, which is a major success, of many orders of magnitude greater than the Neal blunder. Your double standard is pretty obvious here.

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03-10-2013, 06:47 PM
  #119
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You won't give them any credit for Kari, which is a major success, of many orders of magnitude greater than the Neal blunder. Your double standard is pretty obvious here.
That's your opinion, but I gave a reasonable explanation why I don't give them Kari. If you care to talk about that specific example feel free. It's not a double standard just because you disagree with my assessment.

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03-10-2013, 06:51 PM
  #120
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Look Lehtonen was an easy trade to make. Vishnevskiy had basically played his way out of the organization. He wasn't returning the next season and he wasn't part of their defensive plans at the NHL level so in effect he was a dead asset about to expire. Lehtonen had played his way out of Atlanta. His injury, weight, and conditioning issues had pissed off their brass to the point that they wanted him and his contract gone.

Dallas gave a prospect who wasn't in their plans and a 4th round pick for a chance on a guy with all the talent in the world who wasn't putting it together for a franchise that was struggling.

Lehtonen in some ways was a gamble because he was being fairly well payed and he could have continued to have serious injury/conditioning problems. The flip side was that Dallas didn't have any other real goalie solutions and they didn't give anything significant away for a low risk high reward return. Lehtonen has been everything they hoped and more but let's not call this some major coup where our scouts flat out fleeced Atlanta.

Ryder was a no brainer. As was Whitney and Jagr. All three have a pedigree that speaks for itself and while they had to negotiate a contract any scout in this league would have signed off on having those players as a part of their group.

Pardy and Rome aren't special. Nystrom was a desperate buy that has worked out and Fiddler is overpaid for what he is but was always going to be a solid bottom six center.

My point wasn't that the pro scouts are awful. Though I think that argument could in fact be made. It was that the amateur scouts have a good to lately great track record of finding talent and guys who can work in their system. Just in the last four years since Niewendyk took over they've found...

Chiasson, R. Smith, Vincour, Guptill, Nemeth, Campbell, Stransky, Ritchie, Oleksiak, Shore, Dillon, Fraser, Roussel, and Eakin.

That doesn't mention guys like Vance, Molin, Jordie Benn, Jokipakka, Klingberg, Faska, etc. All of whom have a chance to come over to Texas in the next year or so and see how the play in the AHL. The basic question to me is who do you trust on a talent evaluation Les Jackson or Joe Niewendyk. For me it's Jackson. Please tell me if you disagree and why?

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03-10-2013, 06:59 PM
  #121
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Look Lehtonen was an easy trade to make. Vishnevskiy had basically played his way out of the organization. He wasn't returning the next season and he wasn't part of their defensive plans at the NHL level so in effect he was a dead asset about to expire. Lehtonen had played his way out of Atlanta. His injury, weight, and conditioning issues had pissed off their brass to the point that they wanted him and his contract gone.

Dallas gave a prospect who wasn't in their plans and a 4th round pick for a chance on a guy with all the talent in the world who wasn't putting it together for a franchise that was struggling.

Lehtonen in some ways was a gamble because he was being fairly well payed and he could have continued to have serious injury/conditioning problems. The flip side was that Dallas didn't have any other real goalie solutions and they didn't give anything significant away for a low risk high reward return. Lehtonen has been everything they hoped and more but let's not call this some major coup where our scouts flat out fleeced Atlanta.

Ryder was a no brainer. As was Whitney and Jagr. All three have a pedigree that speaks for itself and while they had to negotiate a contract any scout in this league would have signed off on having those players as a part of their group.

Pardy and Rome aren't special. Nystrom was a desperate buy that has worked out and Fiddler is overpaid for what he is but was always going to be a solid bottom six center.

My point wasn't that the pro scouts are awful. Though I think that argument could in fact be made. It was that the amateur scouts have a good to lately great track record of finding talent and guys who can work in their system. Just in the last four years since Niewendyk took over they've found...

Chiasson, R. Smith, Vincour, Guptill, Nemeth, Campbell, Stransky, Ritchie, Oleksiak, Shore, Dillon, Fraser, Roussel, and Eakin.

That doesn't mention guys like Vance, Molin, Jordie Benn, Jokipakka, Klingberg, Faska, etc. All of whom have a chance to come over to Texas in the next year or so and see how the play in the AHL. The basic question to me is who do you trust on a talent evaluation Les Jackson or Joe Niewendyk. For me it's Jackson. Please tell me if you disagree and why?
A lot of those names are still very much long shots. Many of the ones that have seen NHL games still haven't earned regular spots. Our offense and much of the core of our team has been built by Joe, and he's done well since Gaglardi took over. The Neal trade stands out as bad but it's easily balanced out by the Kari trade. We needed a good d-man, Goligoski hasn't worked out but that doesn't mean the pro scouts are trash or can't be trusted. The amatuer scouts have much less pressure to perform and the vast number of their picks never even make the NHL. They've done alright but until we're a Cup contender based on our prospects I'm not convinced they're amazing.

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03-10-2013, 07:53 PM
  #122
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A lot of those names are still very much long shots. Many of the ones that have seen NHL games still haven't earned regular spots. Our offense and much of the core of our team has been built by Joe, and he's done well since Gaglardi took over. The Neal trade stands out as bad but it's easily balanced out by the Kari trade. We needed a good d-man, Goligoski hasn't worked out but that doesn't mean the pro scouts are trash or can't be trusted. The amatuer scouts have much less pressure to perform and the vast number of their picks never even make the NHL. They've done alright but until we're a Cup contender based on our prospects I'm not convinced they're amazing.
I disagree about the pressure on amateur scouts. In this new NHL where most don't get to UFA or where only the best get huge contracts and the rest are overpaid for what they are finding the bulk of your organization falls on the amateur scouts. It comes from the Benn's, Eriksson's, Daley's, etc. Now it is true that they get more chances at it but drafting, undrafted free agents, and amateur trades are the lifeblood of your organization in a cap world where the blockbuster trade is all but dead. This is especially true for an organization that hasn't had a top five pick in 10+ years. You've got to find talent and projecting 17-20 year olds is extremely difficult.

As for the names I provided we were strictly speaking of the last four years many of whom are still playing college, juniors, or the AHL. Not all of those names will develop but from everything that's been seen of their career's they've got the tools to make the NHL and I dare say 70% of that list will see NHL time which for guys outside of the top 3 rounds is a win in itself for the scouts considering the odds of even making the NHL from those types of players.

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03-10-2013, 08:00 PM
  #123
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I disagree about the pressure on amateur scouts. In this new NHL where most don't get to UFA or where only the best get huge contracts and the rest are overpaid for what they are finding the bulk of your organization falls on the amateur scouts. It comes from the Benn's, Eriksson's, Daley's, etc. Now it is true that they get more chances at it but drafting, undrafted free agents, and amateur trades are the lifeblood of your organization in a cap world where the blockbuster trade is all but dead. This is especially true for an organization that hasn't had a top five pick in 10+ years. You've got to find talent and projecting 17-20 year olds is extremely difficult.

As for the names I provided we were strictly speaking of the last four years many of whom are still playing college, juniors, or the AHL. Not all of those names will develop but from everything that's been seen of their career's they've got the tools to make the NHL and I dare say 70% of that list will see NHL time which for guys outside of the top 3 rounds is a win in itself for the scouts considering the odds of even making the NHL from those types of players.
When you hand pick the names from a pool of a LOT of players it's not hard to say 70% of that list will see NHL time.

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03-10-2013, 08:01 PM
  #124
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The Neal trade stands out as bad but it's easily balanced out by the Kari trade.
I'm curious about your reasoning here. Going strictly by the net results, Kari's awesomeness compared to Goligoski's suckitude is a balance. What tips the scales and makes the Goligoski trade worse than the Kari trade is good is what we gave up in both deals.

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03-10-2013, 08:27 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I'm curious about your reasoning here. Going strictly by the net results, Kari's awesomeness compared to Goligoski's suckitude is a balance. What tips the scales and makes the Goligoski trade worse than the Kari trade is good is what we gave up in both deals.
Elite goaltender versus poor defenseman and you don't understand the reasoning? Kari is a better goaltender than Neal ever was a winger in Dallas.

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