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Old
03-07-2013, 11:41 AM
  #801
Bluenote13
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Good analogy.

Czechmates. Man that seems like a lifetime ago.
That team was an absolute circus.

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03-07-2013, 11:50 AM
  #802
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Gaborik is like a one man Czechmates line. He's erupt one game and then disappear for games at a time.
Yikes, Singin. Way to dredge up old memories best left forgotten.

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03-07-2013, 11:52 AM
  #803
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We've only seen Nash play a full season with one of the worst franchises in the league....

Let's see what he does over the course of a full season with the Rangers.... Gabby's a good finisher but he can't create his own offense the way Nash does.... Nash creates space on the ice because his stick-handling is so dangerous.....
But even with that, he doesn't produce like Gaborik. If you cannot convert on the chances you and your line mates create, than it doesn't matter how many chances you create. The end goal of a shift is to put the puck in the net.

Throughout Gaborik's career he has played with mediocre talent, similar to Nash (he didn't have much help with the Wild and do we forget Christiansen centering for him here in NY?). And despite that, throughout his career, he has produced vastly more than Nash.

It's going to take a lot more than 20 games for me to say it's time to pack up Gaborik.

First season with the Rangers; 5th in goals / 10th in points. Third season with the Rangers; 3rd in goals / 15th in points. At the end of the day, whether he is a "ghost" or not, 40+ goals is too much production to ignore, and he's been too important to our offense for him to get that kind of criticism because of a small sample.

And whose to say he can't be a big playoff performer? He had a great season with the Wild one year. Last year, he wasn't as bad as everyone made him out to be, especially given a labral tear in his shoulder. And what did Nash do in his only playoff experience? Zilch.

Nash is top-10 in the NHL in terms of flash. But to ever be considered a top forward, he's got to do more than get 30 goals / 55-60 points. And like I said, poor line mates isn't an excuse, Gaborik has had that experience on offensively depleted teams too. And it hasn't hurt other top super stars like Crosby, Tavares, Iginla, Ovechkin, Spezza (in recent years he has played with border line NHL talent) etc, from putting up big numbers with mediocre line mates. So, there is only so far that argument can go for Nash when other players have the same situation, and as the "guy" of their team they excel.

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03-07-2013, 11:59 AM
  #804
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Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
But even with that, he doesn't produce like Gaborik. If you cannot convert on the chances you and your line mates create, than it doesn't matter how many chances you create. The end goal of a shift is to put the puck in the net.

Throughout Gaborik's career he has played with mediocre talent, similar to Nash (he didn't have much help with the Wild and do we forget Christiansen centering for him here in NY?). And despite that, throughout his career, he has produced vastly more than Nash.

It's going to take a lot more than 20 games for me to say it's time to pack up Gaborik.

First season with the Rangers; 5th in goals / 10th in points. Third season with the Rangers; 3rd in goals / 15th in points. At the end of the day, whether he is a "ghost" or not, 40+ goals is too much production to ignore, and he's been too important to our offense for him to get that kind of criticism because of a small sample.

And whose to say he can't be a big playoff performer? He had a great season with the Wild one year. Last year, he wasn't as bad as everyone made him out to be, especially given a labral tear in his shoulder. And what did Nash do in his only playoff experience? Zilch.

Nash is top-10 in the NHL in terms of flash. But to ever be considered a top forward, he's got to do more than get 30 goals / 55-60 points. And like I said, poor line mates isn't an excuse, Gaborik has had that experience on offensively depleted teams too.
Umm parting ways with Gaborik is inevitable due to salary cap concerns..... Nash is youner, less injury prone, and has the longer contract. We can't afford to have so much cap spaced tied up in 3 forwards and still pay the rest of our promising young players and established core guys. If you look at the Rangers contract situation we have A LOT of key players who will be needing new contracts over the next 2 seasons.... Whether we keep Gaborik for one more season or not, I think it's inevitable that he's a cap casualty and the Rangers will not be in a position to re-sign him (they might not even want to).

Gaborik is simply not a consistent nor reliable playoff performer and I'm not sure how anyone could suggest otherwise.... He doesn't elevate his game when you need to rely on him the most. Scoring hat tricks and multi-goal games in the regular season does not lessen my concerns about his ability to perform and deliver in the post-season...

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Old
03-07-2013, 11:59 AM
  #805
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Uh I thought he had a good 2nd period but I'd say he was far from being a factor at even strength on a shift-by-shift basis throughout the Flyers game... He was invisible the entire 1st period and I didn't notice him too much in the 3rd.... He tends to score in bunches and then goes quiet for stretches at a time.... He's shut down easily by teams like Pittsburgh and doesn't tend to elevate his game against the stronger opponents when we need him to.... The main problem is that he is not good 1-on-1 and does not stick-handle well enough to beat players and generate his own scoring chances. His speed is only maximized when he has a clear path to the net, not when he has to go through or around players who stand in his way. He needs to be set up for scoring opportunities and when he does get set-up, he's usually good at finishing - but when his head is not in the game and he's not 'thinking' the play very well, he's not finding himself getting open to create those chances very often.

He has not been very effective or reliable in the post-season, yes I know he has played injured at times but he doesn't seem to be the type of player who elevates his game when faced with the strongest adversity. I have serious reservations about his game and his ability to contribute in the playoffs.... I think the source of his inconsistency is mental as opposed to physical. I'd like to see the Rangers explore trading him in the off-season and looking to shore up their offensive depth via the return in that trade plus exploring free agent options...
If Nash had the game Gabby had against the Flyers people wouldve been singing his praises about how he was this close to scoring and forcing Bryz to make great saves. But it's Gaborik, so he doesn't get that on this board. I don't want to trade our 40 goal scorer for depth. We just traded depth to get another 40 goal scorer! I'm not comfortable getting Dubinsky and Anisimov's for Gaborik. Anyway, this is the Nash thread so I'm not gonna push the issue, I just think the way this board treats Gaborik is absolutely ridiculous.

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He doesn't elevate his game when you need to rely on him the most. Scoring hat tricks and multi-goal games in the regular season does not lessen my concerns about his ability to perform and deliver in the post-season...
Viable point but an awful road to go down if we're comparing his impact to Nash, since Nash not only failed most of the time to get his team to the playoffs but did nothing the one time he did.


Last edited by BlueshirtBlitz: 03-07-2013 at 12:04 PM.
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Old
03-07-2013, 01:14 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Good analogy.

Czechmates. Man that seems like a lifetime ago.
It was a lifetime ago, I remember doing a power point on them in 10th grade haha.

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Old
03-07-2013, 01:50 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13
That team was an absolute circus.
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
It was a lifetime ago, I remember doing a power point on them in 10th grade haha.
Whenever I think of the Czechmates I always think of a Friday game in spring of 2000 against Buffalo. Everyone had left the bar in Riverdale we were at for happy hour and I stayed and watched the game. They beat Hasek and the Sabres 6-3 and Nedved scored a hat trick. I remember thinking "If only they could play like this more often, this team might be watchable." We all know how that turned out.

13 years. Yikes. Jesus that was before Sather was even here. Strange, in my mind I always blame him for having to watch Nedved all those years.

Anyway back to Nash. He is awesome.

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Old
03-07-2013, 02:00 PM
  #808
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The same excuse of cap hit for Gaborik was used against bringing Nash in as well. Let the professionals worry about the cap. When the Rangers need the money, Gabs will be a UFA but for now stop worrying about the damn cap

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Old
03-07-2013, 02:04 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Umm parting ways with Gaborik is inevitable due to salary cap concerns..... Nash is youner, less injury prone, and has the longer contract. We can't afford to have so much cap spaced tied up in 3 forwards and still pay the rest of our promising young players and established core guys. If you look at the Rangers contract situation we have A LOT of key players who will be needing new contracts over the next 2 seasons.... Whether we keep Gaborik for one more season or not, I think it's inevitable that he's a cap casualty and the Rangers will not be in a position to re-sign him (they might not even want to).

Gaborik is simply not a consistent nor reliable playoff performer and I'm not sure how anyone could suggest otherwise.... He doesn't elevate his game when you need to rely on him the most. Scoring hat tricks and multi-goal games in the regular season does not lessen my concerns about his ability to perform and deliver in the post-season...
This to the nth degree.

Gaborik is a great scorer and finisher yes. HOWEVER, the streaky work is not ideal. He can put in so many when he's up to it, but sometimes he DOES seem disinterested, and at times plays like garbage. Other times, he's stellar. While he scores many goals and points, more than Nash, Nash makes players around him better. This is much more valuable. Think of it like a Crosby-Ovechkin thing, where Nash is Crosby and Gaborik is Ovechkin. Great scorer and playmaker who helps teammates with nice passes (Hagelin for Nash) and vice versa. Then, you have the big powerful sniper, who doesn't necessarily make the teamates better, but pots goals a lot when they're up to it and it gives the other players assists because of that elite finishing touch. That's how I've always seen it.

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Old
03-07-2013, 02:13 PM
  #810
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This to the nth degree.

Gaborik is a great scorer and finisher yes. HOWEVER, the streaky work is not ideal. He can put in so many when he's up to it, but sometimes he DOES seem disinterested, and at times plays like garbage. Other times, he's stellar. While he scores many goals and points, more than Nash, Nash makes players around him better. This is much more valuable. Think of it like a Crosby-Ovechkin thing, where Nash is Crosby and Gaborik is Ovechkin. Great scorer and playmaker who helps teammates with nice passes (Hagelin for Nash) and vice versa. Then, you have the big powerful sniper, who doesn't necessarily make the teamates better, but pots goals a lot when they're up to it and it gives the other players assists because of that elite finishing touch. That's how I've always seen it.
I see more of a similarity between Stamkos and Gaborik, than Ovechkin and Gaborik, but I agree with your point.

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03-07-2013, 04:47 PM
  #811
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Uh I thought he had a good 2nd period but I'd say he was far from being a factor at even strength on a shift-by-shift basis throughout the Flyers game... He was invisible the entire 1st period and I didn't notice him too much in the 3rd.... He tends to score in bunches and then goes quiet for stretches at a time.... He's shut down easily by teams like Pittsburgh and doesn't tend to elevate his game against the stronger opponents when we need him to.... The main problem is that he is not good 1-on-1 and does not stick-handle well enough to beat players and generate his own scoring chances. His speed is only maximized when he has a clear path to the net, not when he has to go through or around players who stand in his way. He needs to be set up for scoring opportunities and when he does get set-up, he's usually good at finishing - but when his head is not in the game and he's not 'thinking' the play very well, he's not finding himself getting open to create those chances very often.

He has not been very effective or reliable in the post-season, yes I know he has played injured at times but he doesn't seem to be the type of player who elevates his game when faced with the strongest adversity. I have serious reservations about his game and his ability to contribute in the playoffs.... I think the source of his inconsistency is mental as opposed to physical. I'd like to see the Rangers explore trading him in the off-season and looking to shore up their offensive depth via the return in that trade plus exploring free agent options...
I'm not sure how many times this has to be said...

The things Gaborik can possibly do for us will NEVER be made up in a trade for other players... Gaborik is a star player, we would need 2-3 20 goal scorers... what team will give that up for one star player? None... Lets not forget his age...

and lastly... this is a SHORTENED SEASON, after coming off a shoulder injury with minimal training camp, and unable to play from the end of the 2012 playoffs until 8 months afterwards... you can't expect the guy to do wonders...

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03-07-2013, 04:49 PM
  #812
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People seem to forget that the big point in bringing Nash here was that he wouldn't have to be our sole "goal scorer" scoring threat. Now he's playing well and people want to kick Gabby to the curb?

Not to mention Gabby played well against Philly and Bryz made some tough saves on him. Once he gets out of his slump we become a very dangerous offense. Nash scoring and drawing the top teams D while Gabby is forgotten about and scoring on another line. Getting rid of Gabby would be a mistake.

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03-07-2013, 04:56 PM
  #813
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I'm not sure how many times this has to be said...

The things Gaborik can possibly do for us will NEVER be made up in a trade for other players... Gaborik is a star player, we would need 2-3 20 goal scorers... what team will give that up for one star player? None... Lets not forget his age...

and lastly... this is a SHORTENED SEASON, you can't expect the guy to do wonders...
A shortened season is a shortened season and nobody is expecting wonders. 5 of his 7 goals came in two games. Since his two goal game against the Leafs on 1/26, he's scored a total of 2 goals. That's two goals in over a month. Prior to his current 2 game point scoring streak, he had 4 points in 14 games. Expecting more is hardly asking him to do wonders.

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03-07-2013, 04:56 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
I'm not sure how many times this has to be said...

The things Gaborik can possibly do for us will NEVER be made up in a trade for other players... Gaborik is a star player, we would need 2-3 20 goal scorers... what team will give that up for one star player? None... Lets not forget his age...

and lastly... this is a SHORTENED SEASON, after coming off a shoulder injury with minimal training camp, and unable to play from the end of the 2012 playoffs until 8 months afterwards... you can't expect the guy to do wonders...
So anything more than 2 goals in his last 16 games is "wonders". Why is the bar so low for Gaborik?

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03-07-2013, 04:56 PM
  #815
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People seem to forget that the big point in bringing Nash here was that he wouldn't have to be our sole "goal scorer" scoring threat. Now he's playing well and people want to kick Gabby to the curb?

Not to mention Gabby played well against Philly and Bryz made some tough saves on him. Once he gets out of his slump we become a very dangerous offense. Nash scoring and drawing the top teams D while Gabby is forgotten about and scoring on another line. Getting rid of Gabby would be a mistake.
Bringing Nash in was not so he could score in lieu of Gaborik.

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03-07-2013, 05:02 PM
  #816
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Umm parting ways with Gaborik is inevitable due to salary cap concerns..... Nash is youner, less injury prone, and has the longer contract. We can't afford to have so much cap spaced tied up in 3 forwards and still pay the rest of our promising young players and established core guys. If you look at the Rangers contract situation we have A LOT of key players who will be needing new contracts over the next 2 seasons.... Whether we keep Gaborik for one more season or not, I think it's inevitable that he's a cap casualty and the Rangers will not be in a position to re-sign him (they might not even want to).

Gaborik is simply not a consistent nor reliable playoff performer and I'm not sure how anyone could suggest otherwise.... He doesn't elevate his game when you need to rely on him the most. Scoring hat tricks and multi-goal games in the regular season does not lessen my concerns about his ability to perform and deliver in the post-season...
Agreed. Gaborik is streaky, useless defensively, easy to shutdown, and injury-prone as he gets older. Regular season stats don't mean anything come playoff time

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03-07-2013, 05:31 PM
  #817
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Am i the only one who loved Nedved. Seemed to be the only guy trying on those teams.

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03-07-2013, 05:46 PM
  #818
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Bringing Nash in was not so he could score in lieu of Gaborik.
That's not what I'm saying. I mean he was brought in to have two deadly goal scorers in the lineup. Last season we had one (Gaborik). The thinking was to add a second one in Nash and it will make our offense better. That's a very basic way of looking at it, I know, but I think wanting to ship out Gaborik is a little premature. Personally, I'd like to see him re-sign here at a discount, even at 32 I think he's be worth 5.5-6 for 5 years. If we could get him to sign that, I'd definitely keep him.

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03-07-2013, 06:03 PM
  #819
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Am i the only one who loved Nedved. Seemed to be the only guy trying on those teams.
He had a pretty good career, the way in which we acquired him likely hampered his legacy.

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03-07-2013, 06:20 PM
  #820
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i was a nedved fan. wudda been a really good 2nd line center if we had a 1st line C and even decent defense.

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03-07-2013, 08:21 PM
  #821
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Agreed. Gaborik is streaky, useless defensively, easy to shutdown, and injury-prone as he gets older. Regular season stats don't mean anything come playoff time
Watching Gaborik tonight makes me want to throw up. The guy really is useless at times. Just stands there watching so often.

On another note, I came to this thread to announce that I will be marrying off my daughter to Rick Nash.

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03-07-2013, 08:30 PM
  #822
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Rick the 3rd, our lawd, we're not worthy.

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03-07-2013, 08:31 PM
  #823
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Ridiculously good

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03-07-2013, 08:33 PM
  #824
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Imagine how bad we would be without Nash

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03-07-2013, 08:35 PM
  #825
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Holy mother****. Rick Nash is the beast of all beasts. Freakin love this guy.

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