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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XXXIII ‎

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Old
03-07-2013, 03:51 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
A 3rd line C that can fill in on the 2nd shouldn't be too hard to find on the FA market. (Bozak?). We don't need that coming back in a Staz trade, IMO.
I tend to agree with that thought, but I don't want to end up paying $4-4.5m for it (Bozak will be paid that much at least). The priority should be top 4 LD, but I don't think bringing back a young #3C should be out of the question.

The other option for that #3C spot is Sgarbossa. He might be able to play sheltered minutes with ROR and Duchene splitting the heavy lifting. With the right line mates there could be some success.

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03-07-2013, 03:55 PM
  #352
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Why don't we want a center coming back? As a hypothetical lets say we trade Stastny. Then we are rolling Duchene-ROR-Mitchell-Olver as our 4 centers. Not really a playoff level combo, and if Duchene or ROR gets hurt, Mitchell is the #2. That is a scary thought. Duchene-ROR-Berglund-Mitchell is actually pretty strong.

IMO we still need to get a solid #3C if we trade off Stastny or ROR. Mitchell, as surprising and solid as he has been, is not a long-term solution to our #3C role. Berglund would allow for a very solid 3rd line to be formed. Now I think our top priority should be bringing back a top 4 LD, but that isn't going to happen in a Blues trade. The best deal we can make any team is taking one of their top prospects and a young #3C or Top 4 D. There might be some other moving parts, but that is the basis of the deal.
I just don't want the trade to be redundant... And I do agree that the LH-D is the more pressing need. Especially if we draft in the top 10 this year, there are more top line potential forwards available than defenders.

However, there is more than one way to skin a cat. If we traded Stastny for say 'Oshie' (that's just my preference involving St. Louis), and we have a top 10 pick.

We could move that top 10 pick (Forward) plus say Sgarbossa for Yandle as well. Giving Phoenix a cheaper option who would be locked up longer (Going to a budget team that may matter), as far as forwards go.

A third line center isn't going to be impossible to find in free-agency, especially with Bozak possibly being there as well.

We could also keep all three of our centers, and use free-agency and the draft to address the other two needs as well. Although obviously most people feel keeping all three is less likely. As well as the fact that, while the list of defenders who are hitting UFA is strong. There isn't that many 'top pairing' options, and those who are are older or borderline at best. Who knows though...

I do know one thing... I'd rather keep O'Reilly over Stastny if I had to choose between the two.

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03-07-2013, 03:57 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
A 3rd line C that can fill in on the 2nd shouldn't be too hard to find on the FA market. (Bozak?). We don't need that coming back in a Staz trade, IMO.
Careful...the Avs thought Yelle would be easy to replace. He wasn't. We went through Shantz/Nikolishin/Gratton/Arnason/Damphousse*/Laperriere and a couple others I might be forgetting before we finally got O'Reilly. Mitchell should be our 4th line C IMO, though he's proven he can fill the post short-term.

Man...if we could get Steen from the Blues it'd be fantastic. There's a guy who plays a fantastic defensive game who can also do spot duty on a scoring line if need be. There's an ideal 3rd line center for you right there. But I imagine the asking price for a guy like that would be fairly steep.

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03-07-2013, 04:01 PM
  #354
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Careful...the Avs thought Yelle would be easy to replace. He wasn't. We went through Shantz/Nikolishin/Gratton/Arnason/Damphousse*/Laperriere and a couple others I might be forgetting before we finally got O'Reilly. Mitchell should be our 4th line C IMO, though he's proven he can fill the post short-term.

Man...if we could get Steen from the Blues it'd be fantastic. There's a guy who plays a fantastic defensive game who can also do spot duty on a scoring line if need be. There's an ideal 3rd line center for you right there. But I imagine the asking price for a guy like that would be fairly steep.
Steen is 29... I wouldn't want him to be a main piece in a trade involving Stastny. Mitchell has been a good #3 center for us even with 4th line guys on his wings, If we couldn't get Bozak I'd be curious to see what he could do with Downie and another good winger to his left honestly. That scenario wouldn't be the end of the world IMO.

In that case I would like to see a better #4 brought in for sure... (Olver is horrible at center)

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03-07-2013, 04:09 PM
  #355
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One thing I think people are forgetting is that the Blues are trying to make their team better now. They are not going to trade anything that isn't being upgraded. This takes away Backes, Perron, Oshie, Piet, Kirk, Tarasenko and Steen. Then we know that the Avs won't want Stewart, Halak, and Elliott. They also won't grab any of the fringe players as part of the deal.

This leaves Berglund, Polak, D'Agostini, Cole, and propsects like Schwartz, Rattie, and Schmaltz.

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03-07-2013, 04:17 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
One thing I think people are forgetting is that the Blues are trying to make their team better now. They are not going to trade anything that isn't being upgraded. This takes away Backes, Perron, Oshie, Piet, Kirk, Tarasenko and Steen. Then we know that the Avs won't want Stewart, Halak, and Elliott. They also won't grab any of the fringe players as part of the deal.

This leaves Berglund, Polak, D'Agostini, Cole, and propsects like Schwartz, Rattie, and Schmaltz.
None of which I'm moving Stastny for IMO... Trading from their winger depth to fill their hole at center is a conceivable move.

Us helping them become a better team now and in the future without getting a equal piece in a needed position isn't, especially with both teams looking to be in the same division soon.

So either it's possible in a 'hockey trade' sense, or it swings so far into 'HELL NO' territory that we are not good trading partners.

Which is why I like Phoenix much better as a partner...

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03-07-2013, 04:21 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
None of which I'm moving Stastny for IMO... Trading from their winger depth to fill their hole at center is a conceivable move.

Us helping them become a better team now and in the future without getting a equal piece in a needed position isn't, especially with both teams looking to be in the same division soon.

So either it's possible in a 'hockey trade' sense, or it swings so far into 'HELL NO' territory that we are not good trading partners.

Which is why I like Phoenix much better as a partner...
You don't just trade 1 for 1, you trade 1 for pieces. The Avs dump a bit of salary, get a solid player in return, and a very good prospect.

Are you saying that if St. Louis overpaid with a Berglund + Rattie + 1st you wouldn't take it?

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03-07-2013, 04:30 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
You don't just trade 1 for 1, you trade 1 for pieces. The Avs dump a bit of salary, get a solid player in return, and a very good prospect.

Are you saying that if St. Louis overpaid with a Berglund + Rattie + 1st you wouldn't take it?
Yes I'd take that but it's not realistic, if you mentioned that on the trade board. They would have a **** fit...

Using an extremely unrealistic scenario (value or otherwise) doesn't exactly help your argument.

I was arguing based off of the idea that Colorado should take something like Schwartz + 1st (That's a pretty damn late 1st..) for Stastny. I don't think management is going to be after pieces that won't bare fruit for 2-3 years, especially in giving away a top 6 center of Stastny's caliber. I'm also not saying Schwartz + 1st is off-base value wise either, it just does not fill either one of our major needs NOW or next year.

We are not in year two of our rebuild... We are in year four. So there are better options than taking a package of futures from a future division rival.


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03-07-2013, 04:38 PM
  #359
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Yes I'd take that but it's not realistic, if you mentioned that on the trade board. They would have a **** fit...

Using an extremely unrealistic scenario (value or otherwise) doesn't exactly help your argument.

I was arguing based off of the idea that Colorado should take something like Schwartz + 1st (That's a pretty damn late 1st..) for Stastny. I don't think management is going to be after pieces that won't bare fruit for 2-3 years, especially in giving away a top 6 center of Stastny's caliber.
Of course it isn't realistic, notice I said if St. Louis overpaid. A realistic deal is something like a Berglund + Rattie for Stastny. Maybe some picks are swapped around like Colorado adds a 2nd and St Louis adds a 1st (so basically the Avs move up 10-12 spots), but that isn't needed IMO. A pick will not be a center piece of a deal around Stastny.

That would be a trade that would give a #3 center right away, and a top 6 potential RW that could be ready for NHL duty in 14-15. Plus free up around an extra $3m to go shopping for a defensemen. I'd think that the Avs would be very interested in that deal. It probably isn't the best deal around, but one that fits what the Blues need and what the Avs need.

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03-07-2013, 04:42 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
One thing I think people are forgetting is that the Blues are trying to make their team better now. They are not going to trade anything that isn't being upgraded. This takes away Backes, Perron, Oshie, Piet, Kirk, Tarasenko and Steen. Then we know that the Avs won't want Stewart, Halak, and Elliott. They also won't grab any of the fringe players as part of the deal.

This leaves Berglund, Polak, D'Agostini, Cole, and propsects like Schwartz, Rattie, and Schmaltz.
Yeah, Steen is a pipe dream. I think most of the players from St. Louis will cost too much anyhow.

Two forwards on my wish list who could become available soon and might not cost a whole lot are Magnus Paajarvi and Michael Frolik. Yes, feel free to laugh, but I think both are good two-way forwards who could help our PK depth immensely and chip in a few goals.

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03-07-2013, 04:58 PM
  #361
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Schwartz is awesome, too. But I'd really want Perron as I absolutely love his skill set.

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03-07-2013, 04:59 PM
  #362
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Of course it isn't realistic, notice I said if St. Louis overpaid. A realistic deal is something like a Berglund + Rattie for Stastny. Maybe some picks are swapped around like Colorado adds a 2nd and St Louis adds a 1st (so basically the Avs move up 10-12 spots), but that isn't needed IMO. A pick will not be a center piece of a deal around Stastny.

That would be a trade that would give a #3 center right away, and a top 6 potential RW that could be ready for NHL duty in 14-15. Plus free up around an extra $3m to go shopping for a defensemen. I'd think that the Avs would be very interested in that deal. It probably isn't the best deal around, but one that fits what the Blues need and what the Avs need.
Interesting idea... I would have to say that if the 2nd for 1st swap was in there, then you have to pull the trigger.

Don't get me wrong, I like Berglund quite a bit (I can be a bit of a size queen). Duchene, O'Reilly, Berglund down the middle would be 'hard to play against' lol.

So...

Stastny + 2nd (35-40th)

for

Berglund + Rattie + 1st (17-25th)

Still seems like a serious stretch, but fair enough....

I don't really believe we need an extra 3M for a defender though. No one out there is going to be worth more than 4.5M IMO (Streit).

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03-07-2013, 05:06 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
One thing I think people are forgetting is that the Blues are trying to make their team better now. They are not going to trade anything that isn't being upgraded. This takes away Backes, Perron, Oshie, Piet, Kirk, Tarasenko and Steen. Then we know that the Avs won't want Stewart, Halak, and Elliott. They also won't grab any of the fringe players as part of the deal.

This leaves Berglund, Polak, D'Agostini, Cole, and propsects like Schwartz, Rattie, and Schmaltz.
I'd think If Schwartz was available, I'd love a package around him. He's versatile, and should upgrade Avs on LW immediately. any + that comes with him will be a perk.

I also really think getting Ballard from Vancouver could be done without much more than ROB, and is not a long term investment for a reclamation project who has all the characteristics we seem to want in a LHD. He may not be able to be EJ's partner long term, but he would be an upgrade to the D over ROB before he leaves and give the Avs some more time to develop a future partner for EJ.

These 2 moves would partially fill the 2 holes in this lineup without sacrificing much nor strapping Colorado into deals that, if they don't work, they are stuck with (ala a Brad Richards deal)

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03-07-2013, 05:09 PM
  #364
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I'd think If Schwartz was available, I'd love a package around him. He's versatile, and should upgrade Avs on LW immediately. any + that comes with him will be a perk.

I also really think getting Ballard from Vancouver could be done without much more than ROB, and is not a long term investment for a reclamation project who has all the characteristics we seem to want in a LHD. He may not be able to be EJ's partner long term, but he would be an upgrade to the D over ROB before he leaves and give the Avs some more time to develop a future partner for EJ.

These 2 moves would partially fill the 2 holes in this lineup without sacrificing much nor strapping Colorado into deals that, if they don't work, they are stuck with (ala a Brad Richards deal)
Schwartz is too unproven to be the main piece coming back IMO.

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03-07-2013, 05:15 PM
  #365
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I'd think If Schwartz was available, I'd love a package around him. He's versatile, and should upgrade Avs on LW immediately. any + that comes with him will be a perk.

I also really think getting Ballard from Vancouver could be done without much more than ROB, and is not a long term investment for a reclamation project who has all the characteristics we seem to want in a LHD. He may not be able to be EJ's partner long term, but he would be an upgrade to the D over ROB before he leaves and give the Avs some more time to develop a future partner for EJ.

These 2 moves would partially fill the 2 holes in this lineup without sacrificing much nor strapping Colorado into deals that, if they don't work, they are stuck with (ala a Brad Richards deal)
Vancouver is puzzling the hell out of me with their moves of late. They keep leaving Ballard out as a healthy scratch despite the fact that he's playing well this season, and are actually icing a third pairing of Alberts/Barker. Good lord, even the Avs can't put together a pairing that sucky.

If you want to trade Ballard, then play him to showcase his skills. I just don't get why they'd purposely pencil in a vastly inferior blueliner (Barker is not NHL-capable. At all.) because Ballard supposedly doesn't "fit" the system or whatever.

I think Ballard would be a fine pickup, but I just don't see a trade between the Avs and Canucks happening, even though the two will be in different divisions next year.

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03-07-2013, 05:24 PM
  #366
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I have a feeling a player like Kulemin is someone Avs would like. Grinder+ that will get 15 goals a year and will be cost controlled going forward.

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03-07-2013, 05:24 PM
  #367
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Schwartz is too unproven to be the main piece coming back IMO.
Schwartz + 1st + ? for Stastny? Not sure how much value StL has in Schwartz, but I'd imagine he's similar to our Barrie. May not be proven pieces, but may have to go for value as the Blues are not likely to give up too much from the current team while they are going for the cup this year.

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03-07-2013, 05:26 PM
  #368
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Schwartz + 1st + ? for Stastny? Not sure how much value StL has in Schwartz, but I'd imagine he's similar to our Barrie. May not be proven pieces, but may have to go for value as the Blues are not likely to give up too much from the current team while they are going for the cup this year.
I like the last deal better than that, the big draw with Berglund is finally having that big hard to play against third line center, who can put up some points.

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03-07-2013, 05:28 PM
  #369
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Schwartz + 1st + ? for Stastny? Not sure how much value StL has in Schwartz, but I'd imagine he's similar to our Barrie. May not be proven pieces, but may have to go for value as the Blues are not likely to give up too much from the current team while they are going for the cup this year.
Schwartz has a ton of value. Honestly Schwartz is probably as untouchable as Piet and Shattenkrik ATM. Schwartz + 1st would be considered overpayment by many. I don't agree, but I don't value prospects as high as proven NHL talent.

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03-07-2013, 06:24 PM
  #370
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Avs scouts at a CBJ game again

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03-07-2013, 06:37 PM
  #371
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Avs scouts at a CBJ game again
Still trying to figure out where that extra point went that we left there is my guess.

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03-07-2013, 06:38 PM
  #372
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Avs scouts at a CBJ game again
Nikitin returned to the lineup tonight also.

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03-07-2013, 06:59 PM
  #373
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I keep expecting to see a major Avs trade every time I open up twitter.

Everyone is starting to fall in love with Barrie, so it is time for him to get traded soon

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03-07-2013, 07:50 PM
  #374
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I keep expecting to see a major Avs trade every time I open up twitter.

Everyone is starting to fall in love with Barrie, so it is time for him to get traded soon
I've been thinking the same thing for a while, its' the Avs MO. It's just Barrie might be looking too good right now, and the D they get back might not be that far off in value.

I wonder what Staz and Barrie gets you though? A clear upgrade on D, and a lesser and cheaper forward.

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03-07-2013, 08:21 PM
  #375
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Elliott got sent down.
Thanks for the speedy reply.

Off topic (feel free to move this is if bothers anyone): I know one was sent down, but does anyone else have a nagging feeling we will see one of the Avs' D-men traded?

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