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Old
03-06-2013, 07:38 AM
  #26
BringBackStevens
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I'm not concerned about couturier at all

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03-06-2013, 07:58 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
B. Schenn (21)

-Just broke out this year (which a lot of us knew was bound to happen despite fear from impatient people)
-age 17 - 88 points in WHL
-age 18 - 99 points in WHL
-PPG player in AHL
-Involved in threads about being overrated

Couts (barely 20)
-age 17 - 96 points in QMJHL
-age 18 - 96 points in QMJHL
-almost PPG player in AHL

The tools are there. Give Couts 1-1/2 - 2 more seasons and better linemates. There is a good case to be made for moving him up in the line up so he does not stagnate. One has to get used to having better / more reliable weapons.
Exactly this. Also, someone mentioned Voracek just breaking out now in his 5th season, we just need to be more patient. Flyers seem to rush their prospects into the NHL, we can't be so reactionary when they don't succeed right away. Besides, if Couts can frustrate Malkin the way he does when he's only 20, I'm inclined to think we have something special. With the way he put up points in the minors, it's just a matter of time and opportunity (needs more offensive starts and better linemates) before he starts producing.

He isn't producing now, but watching him you can see flashes of what we'll be able to expect down the line from him. Can't wait til Read's back and Talbot can go center the 4th line.

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03-06-2013, 08:04 AM
  #28
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His last 3 years in juniors, he had a cumulative shooting percentage of 14.2% (that's with one season of 7.6%). His first NHL season was 11.4%. I'm going to take a guess that his current season shooting percentage of 4.8% won't last.

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03-06-2013, 08:30 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by PropJoe View Post
Come on, he's definitely not getting Pietro and more than likely not netting us OEL. This is the type of overvaluing I'm talking about.
Calm down. Did you miss the word "IF" in my sentence? He's a highly regarded young player in the NHL, why do you think his name appears as an asking price whenever the Flyers are seeking out high end talent?

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03-06-2013, 10:17 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
His last 3 years in juniors, he had a cumulative shooting percentage of 14.2% (that's with one season of 7.6%). His first NHL season was 11.4%. I'm going to take a guess that his current season shooting percentage of 4.8% won't last.
This is an important consideration. Just like Carter's 23% in LA will likely be dropping back down to 11% at some points this year. In general, it seems that stat likes to stay pretty consistent for forwards.

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03-06-2013, 12:05 PM
  #31
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Personally love Couts, and I think these threads pop up because he's on the NHL roster. He's way ahead of most players his age and needs more time/better linemates. I mean talbots OK and Rinaldo is <OK when it comes to scoring. He's got the ability. His playoff performance last year where he got a hattrick and shut down Malkin was amazing. He's young inconsistent and will show flashes for a bit but he'll eventually be solid.

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03-07-2013, 02:40 PM
  #32
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I worry about how Couturier just generally looks out there...he's not the most graceful of players despite what you heard about French Canadiens...and it's hard to imagine him getting faster as he gains weight, rather I see him turning into a slightly better version of Handzus, a 2.5 Center between 2nd and 3rd lines.

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03-07-2013, 02:45 PM
  #33
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http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...defense-flyers

This summary is basically saying that coots is a stud on defense, and the role he plays allows for little offensive success.

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03-07-2013, 02:57 PM
  #34
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Can't say I'm surprised that Philadelphia fans are getting all over a 20 year old two way defensive centerman with a VERY bright future.

The offensive consistency will come, especially with better line mates, period.

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03-07-2013, 03:17 PM
  #35
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I said before the season that I didn't expect him to produce much offensively this year. He is in a defensive role against the other teams top line and will chip in at times offensively. That is a huge role he is playing.

Gagne will help bring some offense to that line and now that Read is back a line of Gagne/Cooter/Read looks pretty good offensively while not losing the defensive ability that Cooter's line has brought all season. But, I still do not expect them to put up big numbers given that they will go against the other teams top line most of the time.

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03-07-2013, 03:31 PM
  #36
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If he can have healthy Read and Gagne on his wings I think we can expect his production to rise. Those two are better than Talbot and whichever player happened to be in the lineup for that game.

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03-07-2013, 03:37 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
I'm not concerned about couturier at all
This ^

I'll be concerned when the stupid media gets on his case like some people are doing here. I mean cannot stress enough how premature it is to judge a 20yr old like Couts who has shown such tremendous defensive prowess. The offense will come..we saw some sick stuff last year..less so this year b/c his role is more defensive as some have pointed out.

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03-07-2013, 03:39 PM
  #38
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Moving Couturier would be a huge mistake. This was a 18 year old kid that stepped into the lineup and became the defacto defensive conscience - quite possibly the most difficult role any player can accept and he did it with no questions asked and he starred in the role. Ask any coach and they'll tell you that being the defensive center is the hardest role to play. It has nothing to do with sacrificing offense as much as it has to do with playing tough minutes against the opposition's top line. On top of it, you're asked to strictly work the PK and that offensive chances are few and far between. What makes what Couturier did even more awesome was the fact that he was an offensively gifted player in the QMJHL. So, from being an offensive sparkplug to a defensive conscience is quite the 180.

I'm not worried about Couturier at all. Honing his defensive skills while waiting for his opportunity at a top six role will serve him quite well in the end. Look at the forwards drafted ahead of him in his draft year. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is having quite the struggle this year and it's his defensive game that's killing him. Gabriel Landeskog isn't producing at the rate he was last season (I'm also factoring in his concussion/injury this year). The only from that draft year that's having any success this year is Huberdeau in Florida, but he's also playing in a top six role and he's not asked to play defense. Mark Scheifele couldn't even crack the Jets roster for a permanent spot. Same with Ryan Strome and Mika Zabinejad hasn't exactly set the world on fire either.

Nope, I don't feel any discomfort with Couturier's game at all. It's going to come together soon and when it does, people are going to be thankful that the Flyers held on to him.

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Old
03-07-2013, 03:39 PM
  #39
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Haha wow you guys are so defensive. All I was saying is that I just don't see the potential that others do. I think Schenn is going to be better long term.

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03-07-2013, 03:40 PM
  #40
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Couts plays a defensive role and excels greatly at it. With better wingers at his side he would do better offensively, but even as a shutdown center he is a keeper. Of course we want offense to go with it and in time it will.

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03-07-2013, 04:06 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PropJoe View Post
Haha wow you guys are so defensive. All I was saying is that I just don't see the potential that others do. I think Schenn is going to be better long term.
Schenn might be a better offensive player, but I think Couturier will be a Selke award winning centerman that can contribute significantly on the offensive side.

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03-07-2013, 04:11 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Schenn might be a better offensive player, but I think Couturier will be a Selke award winning centerman that can contribute significantly on the offensive side.
These days you don't win a Selke unless you contribute offensively.

Outside of Francis in the short season in '95, you have to go back to '92 (Carbonneau) to find a Selke winner that didn't score 20 goals.

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Old
03-07-2013, 04:16 PM
  #43
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These days you don't win a Selke unless you contribute offensively.

Outside of Francis in the short season in '95, you have to go ack to '92 (Carbonneau) to find a Selke winner that didn't score 20 goals.
That's fine. I think Couturier will be a 20 goal guy. He's an awful lot like Ron Francis (in terms of how he thinks the game) and his skill set seems to be very similar to that of Patrice Bergeron.

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03-07-2013, 04:18 PM
  #44
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If this team was winning and in the playoff race both at the moment we are not no one would be concerned about anybody.

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03-07-2013, 04:23 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
I love the kid and what he brings but if he can get us a Pietro or OEL then I might have to do it.
He could probably get us a Di-Pietro. If you're talking about Pietrangelo though, lol no. Pietrangelo and OEL are their respective franchises' Girouxs. Their "franchise" players who won't be let go for anything short of a massive overpayment.

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03-07-2013, 04:27 PM
  #46
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If this team was winning and in the playoff race both at the moment we are not no one would be concerned about anybody.
Well ya... that would mean the players would be playing better. All of them.

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03-07-2013, 04:28 PM
  #47
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Need to move him up to second line/specialty shut down when needed next year when Laughton can come in.

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03-07-2013, 05:00 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...defense-flyers

This summary is basically saying that coots is a stud on defense, and the role he plays allows for little offensive success.
Meh, not necessarily sure that's true. Among those with a higher Corsi Rel QoC: Jumbo Joe, Datsyuk, Kulemin, Duchene, PA Parenteau, Grabovski, Landeskog, Franzen, Henrik Sedin.

There's some serious offensive dynamos there.

Landeskog, Grabo, and Kulemin are all right there in Defensive Zone starts too and all have more PPG than Cooter.

I'm a big Couturier fan, how can you not be a fan of this level of defense out of a 20 year old? That being said, I have to agree with the OP that I've been generally unimpressed with his scoring prowess. He's made some nice passes, flashed some good vision, but his offensive positioning, nose for the puck, shooting, skating, and stick-handling have all left something to be desired this year. Some of that can be explained away by the lack of linemates and the competition he has faced, but I still think we're at a point where we're talking more about a 50 point 2 way dynamo than we are a 70 point #1C who can also completely shut-down opponents.

Most people at the draft had Couturier as a very safe pick, touted his defensive game and said he'd likely be a good 2nd line center. Some said #1C potential, others said #3C w/ avg #2C upside, but the consensus / the majority said that he was an elite defensive #2C.

Flyers fans in general jumped on the #1C projections, locked in mononucleosis as the only reason why Couturier slid in the draft, and have refused to move off the "we stole Couturier" party line ever since.

I'm not worried that Couturier is the next Marcel Goc, I think his offense is clearly better than that, but I also think the Eric Staal comparisons are absurd, as is the idea that Giroux should be bumped to the wing for Couturier to center our 1st line.

I see Couturier as an elite defensive #2C who averages 20g-30a-50pts. Maybe touches 60 pts in a career year. Can't see the 70 pt projections some around here are running wild with. Can't see him as a #1C either.

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Old
03-07-2013, 05:34 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Meh, not necessarily sure that's true. Among those with a higher Corsi Rel QoC: Jumbo Joe, Datsyuk, Kulemin, Duchene, PA Parenteau, Grabovski, Landeskog, Franzen, Henrik Sedin.

There's some serious offensive dynamos there.

Landeskog, Grabo, and Kulemin are all right there in Defensive Zone starts too and all have more PPG than Cooter.


I'm a big Couturier fan, how can you not be a fan of this level of defense out of a 20 year old? That being said, I have to agree with the OP that I've been generally unimpressed with his scoring prowess. He's made some nice passes, flashed some good vision, but his offensive positioning, nose for the puck, shooting, skating, and stick-handling have all left something to be desired this year. Some of that can be explained away by the lack of linemates and the competition he has faced, but I still think we're at a point where we're talking more about a 50 point 2 way dynamo than we are a 70 point #1C who can also completely shut-down opponents.

Most people at the draft had Couturier as a very safe pick, touted his defensive game and said he'd likely be a good 2nd line center. Some said #1C potential, others said #3C w/ avg #2C upside, but the consensus / the majority said that he was an elite defensive #2C.

Flyers fans in general jumped on the #1C projections, locked in mononucleosis as the only reason why Couturier slid in the draft, and have refused to move off the "we stole Couturier" party line ever since.

I'm not worried that Couturier is the next Marcel Goc, I think his offense is clearly better than that, but I also think the Eric Staal comparisons are absurd, as is the idea that Giroux should be bumped to the wing for Couturier to center our 1st line.

I see Couturier as an elite defensive #2C who averages 20g-30a-50pts. Maybe touches 60 pts in a career year. Can't see the 70 pt projections some around here are running wild with. Can't see him as a #1C either.
And all of them, sans Landeskog, are years older than Couturier.

He's only 20.

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03-07-2013, 06:10 PM
  #50
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And all of them, sans Landeskog, are years older than Couturier.

He's only 20.
Which is why I said I'm not pin-holing him in to a purely defensive center like Goc. I think a 50 point #2C is absolutely fair. He just doesn't have the tools to be a 70 point #1C as some on here have suggested though.

If you disagree, that's your prerogative.

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