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Hockey without fighting.

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Old
03-07-2013, 07:33 PM
  #451
tinfoilcup
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Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery View Post
That's actually not as high as I thought it might be, or even that it likely was 10 years ago.
I think the poll was done in 2009. Don't quote me on that one though. I think the numbers would have been higher but people didn't want to sound less Canadian by admitting they weren't hockey fans. I believe the numbers would have been even higher in favour of fighting had more people been truthful.

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03-07-2013, 07:34 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery View Post
You are talking like they are back-yard wrestling, where no one else is affected by it.

It's not just the player's at risk. It's the Owner, the League, the PA, the insurance companies, the advertisers, and the fans that all have something to lose.
All that's planned for, the teams will miss them and so will the fans. The middle men all have contract and get great pay for injury coverages.

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03-07-2013, 07:34 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by KesselForSelke View Post
The problem is the attempt to argue the opinion of the majority without any quantifiable proof. If you're pro-fighting go right ahead and make your argument, but it's a useless exercise to justify fighting by saying the majority like it. That's not a fact.
So what's an acceptable proof ? That 96 percent of players want to keep fighting ? How would you go about and evaluate the majority? The majority of who? Fans who spend their disposable incomes to go to games or Joe Molson on the street who does not know that Gretzky isn't still playing.

I'm sure that there is a huge amount of anti fighting sentiment in book clubs and chardonnay circles. In the stands, not so much.

Again if you question whether the fans like the fights, I seriously wonder if you have ever watched a game.

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03-07-2013, 07:36 PM
  #454
Art of Sedinery
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
All that's planned for, the teams will miss them and so will the fans. The middle men all have contract and get great pay for injury coverages.
So the insurance companies don't mind paying up big $$$ for a guy who broke his jaw because he willing;y participated in a fight?

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03-07-2013, 07:37 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by tinfoilcup View Post
I think the poll was done in 2009. Don't quote me on that one though. I think the numbers would have been higher but people didn't want to sound less Canadian by admitting they weren't hockey fans. I believe the numbers would have been even higher in favour of fighting had more people been truthful.
That's a pretty weak argument.

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03-07-2013, 07:38 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery View Post
What does that even mean? Seriously?
What I wrote is a clear, unambiguous statement so if you don't understand it you can't understand the essential element fighting plays in hockey for it to remain hockey. One can't teach soul.

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03-07-2013, 07:39 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery View Post
What number do you think is higher; fans the league would gain without fighting vs. fans the league would lose without fighting?

I don't think the NHL is in a position to "raise the middle finger" to any potential fans.
Potential fans don't pay the bills, unless you can get players to take potential pay checks.

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03-07-2013, 07:40 PM
  #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
So what's an acceptable proof ? That 96 percent of players want to keep fighting ? How would you go about and evaluate the majority? The majority of who? Fans who spend their disposable incomes to go to games or Joe Molson on the street who does not know that Gretzky isn't still playing.

I'm sure that there is a huge amount of anti fighting sentiment in book clubs and chardonnay circles. In the stands, not so much.

Again if you question whether the fans like the fights, I seriously wonder if you have ever watched a game.
Fights are exciting, no doubt. When I go to games and a fight breaks out I don't look away and start bad mouthing fights. They're interesting to watch. I just don't see where it has a place in the game. No other sport out there has a culture of fighting. You might have fights in baseball, but the combatants are always suspended. The NHL without fighting still seems like a quality product, just without the sideshow of men on skates attempting to fight (but normally just hug) each other.

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03-07-2013, 07:40 PM
  #459
Art of Sedinery
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Originally Posted by NorthStar4Canes View Post
What I wrote is a clear, unambiguous statement so if you don't understand it you can't understand the essential element fighting plays in hockey for it to remain hockey. One can't teach soul.
So if a player doesn't fight, he has no soul?

Olympic hockey has no soul?

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03-07-2013, 07:40 PM
  #460
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has there been a single pro-fighting argument in this thread that wasn't something to the tune of "go watch women's figure skating you nancy boy"? Because that seems to be the best that the fighting crowd can come up with most days.

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03-07-2013, 07:41 PM
  #461
tinfoilcup
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Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery View Post
That's a pretty weak argument.
probably, it's weak. Want to meet on the ice and settle this like men?

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03-07-2013, 07:43 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
has there been a single pro-fighting argument in this thread that wasn't something to the tune of "go watch women's figure skating you nancy boy"? Because that seems to be the best that the fighting crowd can come up with most days.
"Tradition".

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03-07-2013, 07:44 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery View Post
So the insurance companies don't mind paying up big $$$ for a guy who broke his jaw because he willing;y participated in a fight?
What if he broke his jaw blocking a shot, would they have a beef then. If insurance companies are concerned about the bottom line in a sport where grown men crash into each other at 20 mph with clubs in theirs hands, knives on their feet in a contained space with wooden boards where frozen vulcanized rubber is routinely propelled at 90 mph, fighting doesn't make the top 10.

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03-07-2013, 07:47 PM
  #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery View Post
"Tradition".
I'm pro fighting because its the will of the players. The day the players collectively decide to outlaw fighting, I'm with them.

If you are waiting for this, you might want to pull up a chair.

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03-07-2013, 07:47 PM
  #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
What if he broke his jaw blocking a shot, would they have a beef then. If insurance companies are concerned about the bottom line in a sport where grown men crash into each other at 20 mph with clubs in theirs hands, knives on their feet in a contained space with wooden boards where frozen vulcanized rubber is routinely propelled at 90 mph, fighting doesn't make the top 10.
Blocking shots help stop goals. What does fighting do?

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03-07-2013, 07:48 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery View Post
So the insurance companies don't mind paying up big $$$ for a guy who broke his jaw because he willing;y participated in a fight?
So the medical and car insurance companies don't mind paying up big $$$ for fans that get in accidents traveling to and from the arena when they could have stayed at home and watched it risk-free on TV? Car accidents/injury happen all the time, broken jaws from fighting are a rarity.

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03-07-2013, 07:49 PM
  #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
has there been a single pro-fighting argument in this thread that wasn't something to the tune of "go watch women's figure skating you nancy boy"? Because that seems to be the best that the fighting crowd can come up with most days.
The people who face the direct consequences overwhelmingly want it?

I don't mind watching a scrap, but even if I didn't like it and the players wanted it, I'd defer to them.

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03-07-2013, 07:49 PM
  #468
tinfoilcup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
has there been a single pro-fighting argument in this thread that wasn't something to the tune of "go watch women's figure skating you nancy boy"? Because that seems to be the best that the fighting crowd can come up with most days.
No it comes down to you not liking something that was already there when you started watching it and now just because you don't like it we all have to do what you want and get rid of it. I agree that majority of the casual fans and those who don't even watch hockey at all don't want fighting in hockey. These aren't the people making money for the league.

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03-07-2013, 07:51 PM
  #469
sandysan
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Originally Posted by KesselForSelke View Post
Blocking shots help stop goals. What does fighting do?
Helps win games in the NHL , gives talent guys more room and keeps people honest.

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03-07-2013, 08:00 PM
  #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery View Post
So if a player doesn't fight, he has no soul?

Olympic hockey has no soul?
Most players (whether they ever wind up in a fight during their careers or not) don't want fighting out of the NHL game, which is the question.

Olympic hockey...has nationalism, not soul. Someone with no soul might mistake one for the other, but they are 2 different things. As different as apples and bacon.

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03-07-2013, 08:04 PM
  #471
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my gf would stop watching.

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03-07-2013, 08:07 PM
  #472
Art of Sedinery
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
What if he broke his jaw blocking a shot, would they have a beef then. If insurance companies are concerned about the bottom line in a sport where grown men crash into each other at 20 mph with clubs in theirs hands, knives on their feet in a contained space with wooden boards where frozen vulcanized rubber is routinely propelled at 90 mph, fighting doesn't make the top 10.
I'm guessing you've never made a claim for workers compensation.

Insurance companies will do whatever they can to not pay out something that they can find a way to put the blame on the victim. You can bet they aren't happy about paying out for something that I guy willingly and knowingly engaged in.

Comparing fighting to blocking a shot shows you really don't understand my point.

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03-07-2013, 08:09 PM
  #473
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Originally Posted by NorthStar4Canes View Post
So the medical and car insurance companies don't mind paying up big $$$ for fans that get in accidents traveling to and from the arena when they could have stayed at home and watched it risk-free on TV? Car accidents/injury happen all the time, broken jaws from fighting are a rarity.
If you willingly engage in activity that has a higher risk rate than just regular driving (ie playing hockey) like street racing (ie. fighting) than insurance companies will do whatever they can to not pay.

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03-07-2013, 08:11 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
The people who face the direct consequences overwhelmingly want it?

I don't mind watching a scrap, but even if I didn't like it and the players wanted it, I'd defer to them.
I bet the players were resistant to helmets too. Wouldn't you say that's a positive evolution in the game?

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03-07-2013, 08:15 PM
  #475
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Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery View Post
If you willingly engage in activity that has a higher risk rate than just regular driving (ie playing hockey) like street racing (ie. fighting) than insurance companies will do whatever they can to not pay.
I wonder how the league has survived for the last century. Boy someone in accounts payable at the NHL is gonna have to answer for this.

Insurance companies will ensure anything, if its risky the premiums are higher.

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