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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

OT: Quickest turnaround for a North American arena/stadium ever?

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Old
03-07-2013, 02:11 PM
  #1
cutchemist42
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OT: Quickest turnaround for a North American arena/stadium ever?

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/3/7...alcons-stadium

I'm just glad the Falcons/NFL are footing 4/5 of the bill since they probably knew asking for too much so soon would look iffy.

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03-07-2013, 02:30 PM
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tarheelhockey
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Charlotte Coliseum

Opened 1988
Declared "inadequate" with demand for public to fund a replacement - 1999
Closed - 2005
Demolished - 2007

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03-07-2013, 03:23 PM
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Kane One
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MSG I - Opened 1879
MSG II - Opened 1890

That's over a hundred years ago, so I'm not sure if that counts.

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03-07-2013, 03:27 PM
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epo
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Miami Arena

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03-07-2013, 03:44 PM
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Frank Booth
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Originally Posted by epo View Post
Miami Arena
I remember when the NBA did that expansion and the rule was a minimum of 15,000 seats, and IIRC the basketball capacity was 15,003. I thought that I read that they built it bare bones, and the NBA even forced some additions before the Heat could play.

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03-07-2013, 04:22 PM
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Is this only for torn and replace or would something like Key arena count since the renovations was in 95 and is currently being replaced (if sodo arena happens) as main sporting arena in Seattle? Its been 18 years since that 95 renovations.

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03-07-2013, 07:06 PM
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Aero 75
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Houston Astrodome

Opened - 1965
Abandoned - 1999
Demolished - Still Waiting

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03-07-2013, 08:37 PM
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cutchemist42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero 75 View Post
Houston Astrodome

Opened - 1965
Abandoned - 1999
Demolished - Still Waiting
I think stadiums like the Astrodome are expensive to demolish. I heard that's a reason why the Big Owe was never demolished.

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03-07-2013, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
I think stadiums like the Astrodome are expensive to demolish. I heard that's a reason why the Big Owe was never demolished.
Also with Astrodome, many preservationists are lobbying to his declared a historic landmark being the first dome stadium.

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03-07-2013, 08:47 PM
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Alamodome for basketball was only used 93-02. Miami Arena lasted 88-99. The Pyramid in Memphis opened in 91 and was replaced in 04 because when the Grizzlies came to town they decided it wasn't good enough. The original Arco Arena lasted 3 years but it was always meant as a temporary place until the bigger arena was built.

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03-07-2013, 11:44 PM
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cutchemist42
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Seems like the LCD of all these cases is being built in the 80s. Did that many 80s arenas not see luxury boxes coming?

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03-08-2013, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
Seems like the LCD of all these cases is being built in the 80s. Did that many 80s arenas not see luxury boxes coming?
More like club seating. Same reason the Bucks want the Bradley Center replaced. They wanted it renovated less than 10 years after it was built to add club seats. Target Center in Minneapolis wants a huge (I think $150 million) renovation to add club seats as well.

All of those late 80s buildings weren't built with club seats, then the United Center was built with club seats in 1992 I believe and all of those other buildings became obsolete just 5 years later.

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03-08-2013, 02:35 AM
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Big McLargehuge
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Camden Yards and the United Center were the game changers...which hurt the NBA more than anyone because so many of their buildings were built in the 80s, rendering them obsolete before their 10th birthday in most cases.

It's not just indoor arenas either...Chicago was at the forefront in one movement, but a dinosaur in another - U.S. Cellular Field (then Comiskey Park II) was the last pre-Camden Yards stadium built in baseball and by the time it was entering it's 10th year it was already one of the worst stadiums in the league. Over the course of half a decade they spent almost as much money as it cost to build it to renovate it into a more tolerable stadium. Timing can be a *****...had the White Sox decided to give their 80 year-old stadium another year of life they could have potentially been the team to kick-off the faux-retro trend in baseball instead of having a stadium firmly stuck in-between eras.

On a similar note to the Georgia Dome - the Edward Jones Dome, or whatever the hell they're calling the home of the St. Louis Rams these days. Opened in 1995 and acted as the reason why the Los Angeles Rams moved to St. Louis...and by 2015 it may be the reason they moved back to Los Angeles.

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03-08-2013, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
Seems like the LCD of all these cases is being built in the 80s. Did that many 80s arenas not see luxury boxes coming?
That was certainly the case with the Charlotte Coliseum. A huge arena built to maximize butts in seats, but contained very few luxury options. Opened in 1988 and was "obsolete" within a few years.

Public outrage at the suggestion of footing the bill for another new arena was the main reason that the Hornets were given their walking papers, and it's starting to look like it may have been the end of the NBA in Charlotte altogether.

No problem packing 21,000 fans into the building, but they couldn't make it work because of luxury boxes :

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03-08-2013, 08:54 AM
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The addition of club seating is that much? Is that to add club seating's own bar area and stuff?

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03-08-2013, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Camden Yards and the United Center were the game changers...which hurt the NBA more than anyone because so many of their buildings were built in the 80s, rendering them obsolete before their 10th birthday in most cases.

It's not just indoor arenas either...Chicago was at the forefront in one movement, but a dinosaur in another - U.S. Cellular Field (then Comiskey Park II) was the last pre-Camden Yards stadium built in baseball and by the time it was entering it's 10th year it was already one of the worst stadiums in the league. Over the course of half a decade they spent almost as much money as it cost to build it to renovate it into a more tolerable stadium. Timing can be a *****...had the White Sox decided to give their 80 year-old stadium another year of life they could have potentially been the team to kick-off the faux-retro trend in baseball instead of having a stadium firmly stuck in-between eras.

On a similar note to the Georgia Dome - the Edward Jones Dome, or whatever the hell they're calling the home of the St. Louis Rams these days. Opened in 1995 and acted as the reason why the Los Angeles Rams moved to St. Louis...and by 2015 it may be the reason they moved back to Los Angeles.
How bad can the Rams' dome be if built in the 90s? He's likely turning a profit since Deadspin showed even one of the worst NFL franchises in Carolina earned $117 mil in profits over the last 2 years.

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03-08-2013, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero 75 View Post
Houston Astrodome

Opened - 1965
Abandoned - 1999
Demolished - Still Waiting
http://news.yahoo.com/cost-demolitio...165900292.html

that fact that harris still owes money on the building

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03-08-2013, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
I think stadiums like the Astrodome are expensive to demolish. I heard that's a reason why the Big Owe was never demolished.
Well, it took Montreal 30 years to finally pay for that stadium.

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03-08-2013, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/3/7...alcons-stadium

I'm just glad the Falcons/NFL are footing 4/5 of the bill since they probably knew asking for too much so soon would look iffy.
Key Arena was completely renovated with the NBA's blessing in 1996. In 2006 the NBA said it was no longer suitable, and that Seattle needed a brand new arena. And people wonder why the city didn't jump to build a new arena.

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03-08-2013, 09:56 AM
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Well, it took Montreal 30 years to finally pay for that stadium.
how can that be? lottery tickets, commemorative coins and cigarette taxes were supposed to pay for it within a few years. next you will try to tell me that taxpayers ended up footing the bill too!

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03-08-2013, 10:13 AM
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tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
The addition of club seating is that much? Is that to add club seating's own bar area and stuff?
The design of the arena made it impossible to add a substantial number of boxes. The sightlines and slope of the bowl just wouldn't have accommodated it.



Now, bear in mind this was all under discussion at a time when luxury boxes were the rage. Club seats, as we now think of them, weren't really the focus.

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03-08-2013, 01:13 PM
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The Georgia Dome is more egregious than most of these examples... Unlike Miami Arena or the Charlotte Coliseum, which were built before those cities acquired pro franchises, it's a perfectly up to date building that's about to be replaced because tastes in NFL stadium design have changed and domes have fallen out of favor. At least Blank seems to understand how frivolous this is, but I really feel the city of Atlanta would be well within their rights to tell him to get lost.

I wonder how long it will be before the overburdened taxpayer here in Michigan is paying for a retrofit of Ford Field to add at least a retractable window to our otherwise totally state of the art stadium

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03-08-2013, 01:25 PM
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Are the lifespan of stadiums increasing?

Rogers Arena is already 18 years old and shows no signs of wear and tear. I remember arenas back in the 90's that were around that age and were already in talks about being replaced.

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03-08-2013, 01:29 PM
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cutchemist42
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
The Georgia Dome is more egregious than most of these examples... Unlike Miami Arena or the Charlotte Coliseum, which were built before those cities acquired pro franchises, it's a perfectly up to date building that's about to be replaced because tastes in NFL stadium design have changed and domes have fallen out of favor. At least Blank seems to understand how frivolous this is, but I really feel the city of Atlanta would be well within their rights to tell him to get lost.

I wonder how long it will be before the overburdened taxpayer here in Michigan is paying for a retrofit of Ford Field to add at least a retractable window to our otherwise totally state of the art stadium
I did not know it wasn't up-to-date still, if I'm Atlanta then I would have contributed $100 mil or less.

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03-08-2013, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
I did not know it wasn't up-to-date still, if I'm Atlanta then I would have contributed $100 mil or less.
Just to update, yesterday, Blank and the city agreed on a deal for a $billion$ retractable roof stadium. Arthur will pony up $800 mil from his own pockets and investors and the city will put up the $200 mil from its hotel/motel tax. In turn, Blank also has to put some cash (not sure how much...$50 mil?) into the surrounding community. Most likely, the area will be newer retail, bars, and restaurants.

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