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Realignment plan approved; set for play through the 2015-16 season

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:17 AM
  #51
Crayton
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
Is there actually any wording in the release that describes the playoff bracketing?

2nd Edit: Perhaps the rule is: Take the 3 teams from the 'weaker' conference. Choose the 2 who most closely match the natural 1/8, etc seeding, and put them against each other. Then, rank the other 6:1,2,3,4,5,6. Pair them off 1/6,2/5,3/4.

The 2nd Round is the problem. Here is why: To get the most fair 1stRound matchups, you have to allow for the Division Champion to be the team playing the crossover matchup - like Montreal above. But, in that series, if Montreal wins, you want them to face the winner of Tor/Det. If NJ wins, you want them to face the winner of Pitts/Carolina. So, you can't do a straight bracket. It would have to be a reseed.

So, I wonder what will actually be the rule...??
Your "2nd Edit" is how I am operating. The memo was re-mentioned today. This is the memo that said the #1 division winner would face the #2 wild-card team.

In the 2nd round, if you have 3 teams from 1 division and 1 from the other, then a 1v4, 2v3 pairing is the way to go, just like now. Yes, you lose the bracketing, but the NHL doesn't have bracketing now for the Quarterfinals anyway. And I suspect that it is the idea that there "must be a bracket" which gets in most peoples way for good playoff seeding.

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03-08-2013, 12:25 AM
  #52
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I think this is certainly better than what we have now. But, I still liked last year's proposal better.

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03-08-2013, 12:28 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Crayton View Post
Your "2nd Edit" is how I am operating. The memo was re-mentioned today. This is the memo that said the #1 division winner would face the #2 wild-card team.

In the 2nd round, if you have 3 teams from 1 division and 1 from the other, then a 1v4, 2v3 pairing is the way to go, just like now. Yes, you lose the bracketing, but the NHL doesn't have bracketing now for the Quarterfinals anyway. And I suspect that it is the idea that there "must be a bracket" which gets in most peoples way for good playoff seeding.
I did not know that there was currently no bracketing. Thanks for mentioning that. One thing I like about this arrangement is that it removes the "Top 3 seeds always go the Division Champs" provision. In the East, that has been a problem often.

EDIT: So, concerning Wild Card teams, they always are the 7th and 8th seeds. I assume they play in-division if the teams are 4-4 (although I am sure the memo doesn't spell out that fine point, just like it doesn't explain the detailed variation from the 32/21/29 matrix in the West) and the crossover, if necessary, makes for 1/8 and 2/7 matchups.

Is that your understanding, too, Crayton?

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:31 AM
  #54
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I remember reading something back in 2011 about either Florida or Tampa (or both) not being happy about being added to today's Northeast division when the original realignment plan was agreed upon by the BoG. Seems to me that adding Detroit, typically the league's best road draw, to that division makes it more palatable for them.
Tampa for sure will be happy about Detroit that is a big relocation spot for a lot of Detroiters. Some split time but more common with the auto pension slash is that a lot of Detroit area people have just stuck with one house down in Florida and gotten rid of the up north place. Michigan people mostly move to Western Florida not the East. They do sell out in Miami as well, but putting Detroit over there is probably a big sell for Florida maybe enough to push a yes vote.

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03-08-2013, 12:36 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
screw that. play 1 game each year alternating the home team. trying to build division rivals, but now going to play less games against each team in your division.
Minus the fact you're promised more playoff games in division which is when teams really get to hating each other. If you're old enough to remember the late 80's early 90's and I was young but old enough to remember it. Those series began to bleed into the regular season in a bigger way, a lot more hatred when I was growing up. Some of that is the modern athlete, but I think this format will help that back into the game a little more. Should you make the playoffs you will get to see a ton of your division. Not only that but you can see the leagues best superstars every year should you make that choice at a home game. That is good business, if you want to sell stars, they better make it to every city.

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03-08-2013, 12:40 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Minus the fact you're promised more playoff games in division which is when teams really get to hating each other. If you're old enough to remember the late 80's early 90's and I was young but old enough to remember it. Those series began to bleed into the regular season in a bigger way, a lot more hatred when I was growing up. Some of that is the modern athlete, but I think this format will help that back into the game a little more. Should you make the playoffs you will get to see a ton of your division. Not only that but you can see the leagues best superstars every year should you make that choice at a home game.
The divisions are much bigger now than they were then, you are not going to gain "playoff" hate when you have a 50/50 shot of making the playoffs and a 1 in 7 (with exceptions) chance of facing that particular team.

There will be more division playoff series than there are most years, but there will still be "random" series. And depending on the seeding system, it could be a total mess that punishes teams.

And you're not going to get the "hatred" anyway because it's frowned upon, if not directly by the league, by negative media attention..

The league is softer than it was before and that is by design. To me this whole thing feels like a halfassed attempt to bring back something that can never be again. That, and a favor to a couple of teams.

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03-08-2013, 12:47 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
I did not know that there was currently no bracketing. Thanks for mentioning that. One thing I like about this arrangement is that it removes the "Top 3 seeds always go the Division Champs" provision. In the East, that has been a problem often.

EDIT: So, concerning Wild Card teams, they always are the 7th and 8th seeds. I assume they play in-division if the teams are 4-4 (although I am sure the memo doesn't spell out that fine point, just like it doesn't explain the detailed variation from the 32/21/29 matrix in the West) and the crossover, if necessary, makes for 1/8 and 2/7 matchups.

Is that your understanding, too, Crayton?
My bet is that, like the West matrix, common sense will prevail when it comes to 4 teams qualifying from each division. Ha, otherwise you'd end up with 50% divisional series, about what you'd get with a straight 1-8 seeding.

The wild cards won't be 7th and 8th seeds, per se. It sounds as if they will both be 4th seeds in each "divisional" playoff bracket. If they adopt the AHL method, they could also jump to the 3rd seed if they are better than the current 3rd place team in the opposite division.

Yes, since the move to conference playoffs in 1994, the NHL does not bracket their conference quarterfinals. This is similar to the NFL wild-card, where the #1 conference team plays the lesser ranked wild-card game winner. I would like this to continue because it consistently challenges the lower ranked teams and allows the higher ranked teams the path of least resistance. It also doesn't create the weird situation where Nashville could win the Pacific division crown, or something like that.

EDIT: 3 cheers for Dallas and Minnesota, their schedules improve greatly!

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03-08-2013, 12:47 AM
  #58
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And that's without saying that you'll be playing less games against your specific rivals in the first place.

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03-08-2013, 12:52 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Crayton View Post
My bet is that, like the West matrix, common sense will prevail when it comes to 4 teams qualifying from each division. Ha, otherwise you'd end up with 50% divisional series, about what you'd get with a straight 1-8 seeding.

The wild cards won't be 7th and 8th seeds, per se. It sounds as if they will both be 4th seeds in each "divisional" playoff bracket. If they adopt the AHL method, they could also jump to the 3rd seed if they are better than the current 3rd place team in the opposite division.

Yes, since the move to conference playoffs in 1994, the NHL does not bracket their conference quarterfinals. This is similar to the NFL wild-card, where the #1 conference team plays the lesser ranked wild-card game winner. I would like this to continue because it consistently challenges the lower ranked teams and allows the higher ranked teams the path of least resistance. It also doesn't create the weird situation where Nashville could win the Pacific division crown, or something like that.

EDIT: 3 cheers for Dallas and Minnesota, their schedules improve greatly!
Thanks Crayton. And, I think in one way it's only two cheers for Minnesota. Three cheers would have been if we had gotten to keep Detroit. Although this way we only have 7 teams in the division.

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Old
03-08-2013, 01:06 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
The divisions are much bigger now than they were then, you are not going to gain "playoff" hate when you have a 50/50 shot of making the playoffs and a 1 in 7 (with exceptions) chance of facing that particular team.

There will be more division playoff series than there are most years, but there will still be "random" series. And depending on the seeding system, it could be a total mess that punishes teams.

And you're not going to get the "hatred" anyway because it's frowned upon, if not directly by the league, by negative media attention..

The league is softer than it was before and that is by design. To me this whole thing feels like a halfassed attempt to bring back something that can never be again. That, and a favor to a couple of teams.
While they would still meet less, I am kind of hoping they drop the whole wild card act when they push to 32 teams here shortly.

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03-08-2013, 02:08 AM
  #61
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Alright, we'll accept this awful alignment, but at the very least trade Columbus & Pittsburgh for Florida & Tampa Bay. Detroit should probably be with other Midwestern teams like they've always been, but they sure as hell shouldn't be aligned with the Florida teams. How does it help Columbus to rip them away from the only even semi-rival they have, or have ever known, in Detroit? Are we really counting on a handful of Canadian expats to prop up attendance for 42 Florida Panthers games, when expats from the Northeast (Flyers, Rangers fans) could probably work just as well for that purpose? And are the Lightning going to benefit from this mindset, considering Tampa tends to attrack more retirees and such from the Midwest, and not so much Canada or the Northeast? Is separating two strong markets in Pittsburgh & Philly - who will always be rivals no matter what the alignment, no matter what some here think - more risky than isolating weak markets in Columbus & Florida? Just make these very simple tweeks, and at least this will be a somewhat workable structure.

- Buffalo, Boston, Columbus, Detroit, Montreal, Ottawa, Pittsburgh, Toronto
- Carolina, Florida, New Jersey, NY Islanders, NY Rangers, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay, Washington
- Two Western divisions as is, though MAYBE we switch around Winnipeg & Phoenix, just so the Jets are not the only Canadian franchise to be isolated from all other Canadian franchises. Hard to suggest that, though, when the future of Phoenix is in doubt.

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03-08-2013, 04:42 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
While they would still meet less, I am kind of hoping they drop the whole wild card act when they push to 32 teams here shortly.
The East has 16 teams and has a crossover. It's going to be there to stay, short of going back to a 16 team pool with 2 division champions seeded 1/2 and everything else open.

It's a necessity because the system is silly and they know it. You can safely put 6 teams, 3 a side in the playoffs ever year, but after that it gets a bit sketchy.

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03-08-2013, 05:06 AM
  #63
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Guess I will be selling more of my tickets for face because there is 0.0 desire to see most teams from the western conference. Its pretty much like throwing 10 games into the trash. Divisional and conference games are more exciting and sell for significantly more than out of conference games.




Plus, I never understood the desire to see other teams star players. If all the stars were in the west, I wouldn't change my opinion. Going to an NHL games to see the other teams players is what basketball fans do.

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03-08-2013, 05:17 AM
  #64
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Guess I will be selling more of my tickets for face because there is 0.0 desire to see most teams from the western conference. Its pretty much like throwing 10 games into the trash. Divisional and conference games are more exciting and sell for significantly more than out of conference games.

Plus, I never understood the desire to see other teams star players. If all the stars were in the west, I wouldn't change my opinion. Going to an NHL games to see the other teams players is what basketball fans do.
Completely agree on the second point, amen. However, all those games against teams from other conferences still count in the standings. And, seeing where you're at, there will be games with a rivalry-like feel: Chicago, Vancouver, LA if only because they have the Cup, etc. If the majority of fans don't want to see anything other than divisional games, or conference games, then they need to come out and say just that, whereas the NHL would likely respond by strictly segregating two different conferences in the manner of the AL & NL in baseball, before the advent of inter-league play. No inter-conference play at all, in other words. And that would also draw howls of protest. It's a league, and rivalries can come & go, and be completely organic. Might as well just accept that instead of bemoaning it.

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03-08-2013, 05:35 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Minus the fact you're promised more playoff games in division which is when teams really get to hating each other. If you're old enough to remember the late 80's early 90's and I was young but old enough to remember it. Those series began to bleed into the regular season in a bigger way, a lot more hatred when I was growing up. Some of that is the modern athlete, but I think this format will help that back into the game a little more. Should you make the playoffs you will get to see a ton of your division. Not only that but you can see the leagues best superstars every year should you make that choice at a home game. That is good business, if you want to sell stars, they better make it to every city.
I am old enough to remember the 80s. The Patrick division also played 7 times each in the regular season and the rest of the teams 8. Now going to play 4 or 5 is just plain dumb. At the very least keep it at 6.


Last edited by patnyrnyg: 03-08-2013 at 07:53 AM.
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03-08-2013, 05:36 AM
  #66
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It's a league, and rivalries can come & go
You were saying this last week and you are completely wrong. The great rivalries stand the test of time. The rest aren't rivalries, they are fads.

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03-08-2013, 05:42 AM
  #67
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This is so stupid and selfish

This re-alignment plan is one that is so self-interested and illogical it would seem to me to be a product on congress.
The Red Wings, Wild, and Stars play the role of the Tea Party who are willing to make others pay so they can get what they want.
Let me point out how dumb this is:


1) Re-alignment was supposed to solve problems of time zone, Winnipeg, and create a more even, balanced set up

this plan however creates more problems, many which are unneccessary and illogic.

1) You have 30 teams and 2 even conferences of 15 per.
NOW: You have 2 conferences which determine playoffs with 1 being 14 and 1 being 16. HOW can this be fair?

2) You made it a whole lot harder for diehard and casual fans to comprehend. Used to be you win the division and finish 1-8.
NOW: Wild card, goofy playoffs, you made it far more complicated.

3) This was supposed to help rivalries, instead it killed many.
-Detroit is split from Chicago and the rest of the mid-west.
-New York also have no original six

So if this was supposed to bring back old rivalries it killed more and unfairly placed 4 original 6's in one division.

4) OK so this makes sense:
-Mid-west with no Detroit or Columbus
-Atlantic with no Florida team but one from Ohio
-Boston, the eastern most team, in the central division
-Boston, closest to New York, but not with them
-Boston-NY and Boston-Philly dead

5) You got your better start times Detroit, Minnesota, Vancouver, now take your bottle.
NOW: With Detroit out of the west, you really have upset conference balance and interest. Only ONE original six team out west, ONE. Detroit was the main attraction.

So it is ironic now that with better start times in the West, NOBODY will really care after Chicago. The western conference has been looted and the east is now very, very, stacked and unfair.

6) Did we forget about Florida? They have to cross over 10 closer NHL teams to be with a mid-west and Canadian club.


Look, I get it. Detroit had a poor set-up, as did Minnesota, Winnipeg, Dallas, and to a lesser extent Vancouver.

But this problems COULD have been addressed much more logically and fairly. There was NO reason to ruin the wheel with this whacky configuration. None.
I think what happened is Bettman again trying for nostalgia of the 80s with 4 division and it is going to fail. This was a guise to do some social engineering and poor marketing. It is worse than gerrymandering...and the only reason this was passed was due to Bettman and his six owner buddies forming a tea party like alliance.


You could have solved all problems sticking to six divisions with this set-up:

Winnipeg to NW
Columbus OR Nashville to SE
Dallas to Central
Colorado or Vancouver to the Pacific

OR

Winnipeg to NW
Columbus OR Nashville to SE
Dallas to Central
Minnesota to Central
Vancouver to the Pacific


It was that easy.

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03-08-2013, 05:42 AM
  #68
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This is good news! It's not perfect - but it's light years better than what we have now. Ding dong! The six division alignment's dead!

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03-08-2013, 05:43 AM
  #69
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Oh and let me add

1) So how does the wild card work?
2) So will Boston see Crosby only once per season just like Vancouver?
What is the matrix?
3) Who plays who in the playoffs?

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03-08-2013, 07:07 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chasespace View Post
Tampa and Florida having to cross an entire separate conference in order to get to the other teams in their conference?

Incredibly stupid.
Ummm...they do it NOW. They already have to haul ass across the continent to get to Winnipeg. They essentially lost Carolina and DC from their division. DC, from a flight standpoint is like, within a half an hour of the Philadelphia-NY corridor.

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03-08-2013, 07:08 AM
  #71
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Trust me...the Floridian teams won't be complaining. Especially not the ownership groups. They just traded in a season full of home dates with the Jets, Capitals, and Hurricanes....for home dates with Detroit, Ottawa, Toronto, and Boston.

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03-08-2013, 07:09 AM
  #72
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1) So how does the wild card work?
2) So will Boston see Crosby only once per season just like Vancouver?
What is the matrix?
3) Who plays who in the playoffs?

Yeah, can anyone make a short resume of the whole thing?

Divisions, number of game played and playoffs qualifications?

I lost track ;-)

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03-08-2013, 07:10 AM
  #73
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And then there was one big road draw in the West.
[RANT]

This is a ridiculous statement not based in fact.

First, outside of Anaheim and Phoenix, EVERY team in the West is averaging over 90% capacity for attendance, with most over 95%. So, it's not like they are needing Detroit to come to town in order to fill the seats.

Second, the only thing "marquee" about the Red Wings is their long string of consecutive playoff appearances. It has ZERO to do with this whole "Original 6" nonsense. Back in the 70's and 80's they were no more a road draw than the Florida Panthers are now (no offense Panthers fans). Why is that? Because they SUCKED!

Third, true hockey fans shouldn't give a rat's behind about "O-6 this" or "O-6 that". It's all about pulling for your team and hoping your team beats whomever they are playing. The days of only 6 teams in the NHL are 45 years in the rearview mirror, can some of you please move on? It's one thing to acknowledge the history of the sport, but quit being so freakin' clingy...it's very unbecoming.

[/RANT]

...there I feel much better now.


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03-08-2013, 07:12 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doakes View Post
This re-alignment plan is one that is so self-interested and illogical it would seem to me to be a product on congress.
The Red Wings, Wild, and Stars play the role of the Tea Party who are willing to make others pay so they can get what they want.
You can add Philly to the Tea Party list because without their influence, the divisions and their names wouldn't be so stupid looking.

Before Philly reared its ugly head in:
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...g-steam-in-nhl
Eastern Conference first division(Atlantic)

Philadelphia, Washington, New York Rangers, New York Islanders, New Jersey, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Florida.

Eastern Conference second division(Northeast)

Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Ottawa and Detroit or Columbus.

Western Conference first division(Mid-west)

Detroit or Columbus, Winnipeg, Chicago, Dallas, Nashville, St. Louis, Minnesota.

Western Conference second division(Pacific)

Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Anaheim, Los Angeles, San Jose, Phoenix, Colorado.

Clean & simple and it even solved the Phoenix dilemma since they could easily slide in the Northeast if they moved to Quebec or stay right where they are if they moved to Seattle. Nope, not good enough for Philly they just had to screw everything up just so they don't lose a single rivalry, as if the entire league would collapse if Philly and Pitt played each other 2 less times a season just like the NFL, MLB, & the NHL did twice before did when they separated their Philly & Pitt franchises.

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03-08-2013, 07:44 AM
  #75
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Trust me...the Floridian teams won't be complaining. Especially not the ownership groups. They just traded in a season full of home dates with the Jets, Capitals, and Hurricanes....for home dates with Detroit, Ottawa, Toronto, and Boston.
Why did they complain on the previous realignment proposal? I guess Detroit makes the difference.

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