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2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part IV)

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Old
03-04-2013, 10:20 AM
  #926
Mehar
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
With Benn, I find myself flip flopping quite a bit. I like that he can play any forward position and kill penalties. I find him pretty inconsistent when I watch him though, and I'm not sure that Canada needs another playmaker offensively.

Neal is an interesting case. He's basically just a finisher. This is good since Canada is so loaded with players who love to carry the puck, so it's important to have guys who do not need to carry it on their stick. If you put Neal with Crosby though, you still need someone to do the dirty work and provide some defensive cover, since those aren't particularly strong areas for Neal. If you plug that hole with an appropriate player, you still have Tavares, Stamkos, Giroux and others for the lower lines and things start getting crowded. Depending on how Neal does the rest of the year, the ideal situation that I see is putting him as a thirteenth forward type PP specialist. Otherwise, I don't see a spot for him.
A lot of people have Benn making it right now on their team, but i like you need to see more consistency out of Benn. I think Neal has a better chance of making it than Benn. I like the fact than Neal is a finisher. I would have him as a 13th forward right now for Sochi, mainly on the PP alongside Crosby. I like the idea of
Neal with Crosby and Giroux. Would be a good line. I will be keeping a close eye on how Neal and Evander Kane do the rest of the year. Definetly on my radar when i would have said no about three weeks back.

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03-04-2013, 06:02 PM
  #927
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Living in Chicago I catch a few Hawks games here and there and I am happy to see Duncan Keith is playing really good hockey again (similar to his play during 2008-09 and 2009-10). His elite level of play was important in the Vancouver 2010 success and should he continue to play well his speed will make him an important part of Team Canada in Sochi 2014.

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03-04-2013, 06:05 PM
  #928
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Living in Chicago I catch a few Hawks games here and there and I am happy to see Duncan Keith is playing really good hockey again (similar to his play during 2008-09 and 2009-10). His elite level of play was important in the Vancouver 2010 success and should he continue to play well his speed will make him an important part of Team Canada in Sochi 2014.
Great to hear about Keith. he was our best dman in vancouver in my opinion, and Canada needs him to get back to that level

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03-05-2013, 02:11 AM
  #929
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Stamkos - Crosby - St. Louis
Tavares - Toews - Giroux
Nash - Getzlaf - Perry
Ladd - Bergeron - E. Staal
Marleau


Letang - Weber
Keith - Seabrook
Staal - Doughty
Pietrangelo

Luongo
Price
Fleury

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Old
03-05-2013, 04:32 AM
  #930
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I was at the Canucks-Kings game last night, and Dan Hamhuis was excellent. Nice pinch on the first goal, but more importantly the guy is just very solid defensively. Great mobility, great gap control and positioning, takes the body effectively, and makes quick, smart outlet passes. A very smart, effective player. I've been a proponent of his for a while, but I'd certainly like to see him as a bottom-pairing guy for us.

As an aside, Richards was fairly invisible (I don't see many Kings games, but given his stats this doesn't seem to be unusual). The most effective Kings forward was Justin Williams, and Carter was pretty noticeable as well. Hockey Canada loves Carter, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him at the summer camp. Doughty was good, showed flashes of brilliance, but overall was only pretty good. He left me wanting more. Overall the Kings didn't look great, though.
Speaking of a few of the 2005 Junior team vets, it looks as though both Getzlaf and Perry have rediscovered their games (surprise surprise in a contract year) so where do see them in the conversation now and how does that alter the line-up for 2014 if my worst nightmare becomes reality and both Getzlaf and Perry are back in? I try to come up with a line-up that includes both, but I don't like it....I really don't like Canada's chances in 2014 at all if both Getzlaf and Perry are there.

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03-05-2013, 08:27 AM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
Speaking of a few of the 2005 Junior team vets, it looks as though both Getzlaf and Perry have rediscovered their games (surprise surprise in a contract year) so where do see them in the conversation now and how does that alter the line-up for 2014 if my worst nightmare becomes reality and both Getzlaf and Perry are back in? I try to come up with a line-up that includes both, but I don't like it....I really don't like Canada's chances in 2014 at all if both Getzlaf and Perry are there.
I trust Yzerman enough to not select them if they aren't playing at an Olympic level in December 2013. They're playing better now, but lets see if they can keep it up. If they can lead Anaheim on a deep playoff run and get off to strong starts next season, then yes, they belong in the conversation. I still have them on the outside looking in, especially Getzlaf - there are still a few better options at center, and we don't want to have too many guys converted to wing. I see more value in Perry, as we're a bit thin on the right side (especially considering Eberle's and Seguin's slow starts) and with Richards' play slipping a bit we may lack a bit of grit up front. And as others were talking about a few days back we'll need someone to do the dirty work on the Crosby and Stamkos lines. Staal fits the bill, and maybe Neal too, to a lesser extent, but yeah, someone with Perry's fairly unique skillset would add some value there. Still needs to raise his game and keep it there, though IMO.

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03-05-2013, 08:32 AM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
Speaking of a few of the 2005 Junior team vets, it looks as though both Getzlaf and Perry have rediscovered their games (surprise surprise in a contract year) so where do see them in the conversation now and how does that alter the line-up for 2014 if my worst nightmare becomes reality and both Getzlaf and Perry are back in? I try to come up with a line-up that includes both, but I don't like it....I really don't like Canada's chances in 2014 at all if both Getzlaf and Perry are there.
Speaking of RWers on the bubble, Carter is sitting #2 in the NHL in goals and seems to have brought his game back to the level it was at in Philly a few years back. The guy is big, has great speed, is fairly strong defensively, and would be a good triggerman on pretty much any of our four lines. He was our "14th forward" in 2010, so Hockey Canada likes him. I could see him get a long look going into next summer and fall.

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03-05-2013, 10:32 AM
  #933
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Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
Speaking of RWers on the bubble, Carter is sitting #2 in the NHL in goals and seems to have brought his game back to the level it was at in Philly a few years back. The guy is big, has great speed, is fairly strong defensively, and would be a good triggerman on pretty much any of our four lines. He was our "14th forward" in 2010, so Hockey Canada likes him. I could see him get a long look going into next summer and fall.


Ya I think he was going to be Getzlaf's replacement if he's ankle (foot) kept him from the line-up. At least I think it was Getzlaf.

On another note, in the tradition of Doughty making it as a 19 year old in 2010 (and I was livid that Stamkos didn't) you see any 2nd year pros (current rookies) making the wow leap to the Olympic team next year? I don't anticipate any such player selection this time around.

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03-05-2013, 10:43 AM
  #934
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A lot of people have Benn making it right now on their team, but i like you need to see more consistency out of Benn. I think Neal has a better chance of making it than Benn. I like the fact than Neal is a finisher. I would have him as a 13th forward right now for Sochi, mainly on the PP alongside Crosby. I like the idea of
Neal with Crosby and Giroux. Would be a good line. I will be keeping a close eye on how Neal and Evander Kane do the rest of the year. Definetly on my radar when i would have said no about three weeks back.
I'm not confident about Crosby and Giroux playing together. There seems to be legitimate animosity there. Even if they put that aside, they are both primary puck carriers and I am not confident in their styles meshing. I often put Tavares with Crosby, and although he is also accustomed to carrying the puck I like his hockey sense better than anyone else on the team so I expect that he would find a way to make it work.

Quote:
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Speaking of a few of the 2005 Junior team vets, it looks as though both Getzlaf and Perry have rediscovered their games (surprise surprise in a contract year) so where do see them in the conversation now and how does that alter the line-up for 2014 if my worst nightmare becomes reality and both Getzlaf and Perry are back in? I try to come up with a line-up that includes both, but I don't like it....I really don't like Canada's chances in 2014 at all if both Getzlaf and Perry are there.
Getzlaf has played very good hockey this year, and he deserves a look. Unfortunately for him there are Crosby, Stamkos and Toews taking up the first three spots. It's possible that they might want a physical/offensive fourth line, but I doubt it. His inability to play wing makes me think that Getzlaf is still a big longshot.

Perry hasn't looked nearly as impressive as Getzlaf to me. I would like to see him scoring more goals, which would be a big part of his role on Canada. Being a natural wing is a huge benefit, as well as someone who can dig in the corners, and I think he still has a better shot at the team than Getzlaf does, even if Getzlaf is soundly outplaying him.


Last edited by JackSlater: 03-05-2013 at 10:51 AM.
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Old
03-05-2013, 10:59 AM
  #935
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I'm not confident about Crosby and Giroux playing together. There seems to be legitimate animosity there. Even if they put that aside, they are both primary puck carriers and I am not confident in their styles meshing. I often put Tavares with Crosby, and although he is also accustomed to carrying the puck I like his hockey sense better than anyone else on the team so I expect that he would find a way to make it work.



Getzlaf has played very good hockey this year, and he deserves a look. Unfortunately for him there are Crosby, Stamkos and Toews taking up the first three spots. It's possible that they might want a physical/offensive fourth line, but I doubt it. His inability to play wing makes me think that Getzlaf is still a big longshot.

Perry hasn't looked nearly as impressive as Getzlaf to me. I would like to see him scoring more goals, which would be a big part of his role on Canada. Being a natural wing is a huge benefit, as well as someone who can dig in the corners, and I think he still has a better shot at the team than Getzlaf does, even if Getzlaf is soundly outplaying him.
Re: the ducky duo, I've always stated that I'd rather not have either one in my line-up, but If my hand was forced and I had to pick just one, then I'd take Perry over Getzlaf. I'd be plugging my nose while I did it though! I hope the two re-sign soon back in southern cal and the two can go back to sleep for another year.

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03-05-2013, 11:40 AM
  #936
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Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
Speaking of RWers on the bubble, Carter is sitting #2 in the NHL in goals and seems to have brought his game back to the level it was at in Philly a few years back. The guy is big, has great speed, is fairly strong defensively, and would be a good triggerman on pretty much any of our four lines. He was our "14th forward" in 2010, so Hockey Canada likes him. I could see him get a long look going into next summer and fall.
Carter is big, and a natural scorer, but in no way is he strong defensively. He tends to float quite abit by the blue lines, and that has been his biggest knock. Not strong defensively, and doesn't engage physically enough considering his frame. I still see him as a long shot.

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03-05-2013, 12:29 PM
  #937
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Martin St. Louis is 3rd in scoring in the NHL. Is it time to consider him a lock?

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03-05-2013, 12:34 PM
  #938
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Martin St. Louis is 3rd in scoring in the NHL. Is it time to consider him a lock?
no, he is turning 38 this summer in june, and I think will have to still be playing at an extremely high level next year to earn a spot. He also wasn't great in Torino, but neither was anybody else, so I don't know if that will have any weight.

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03-05-2013, 12:35 PM
  #939
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I'm not confident about Crosby and Giroux playing together. There seems to be legitimate animosity there. Even if they put that aside, they are both primary puck carriers and I am not confident in their styles meshing. I often put Tavares with Crosby, and although he is also accustomed to carrying the puck I like his hockey sense better than anyone else on the team so I expect that he would find a way to make it work.



Getzlaf has played very good hockey this year, and he deserves a look. Unfortunately for him there are Crosby, Stamkos and Toews taking up the first three spots. It's possible that they might want a physical/offensive fourth line, but I doubt it. His inability to play wing makes me think that Getzlaf is still a big longshot.

Perry hasn't looked nearly as impressive as Getzlaf to me. I would like to see him scoring more goals, which would be a big part of his role on Canada. Being a natural wing is a huge benefit, as well as someone who can dig in the corners, and I think he still has a better shot at the team than Getzlaf does, even if Getzlaf is soundly outplaying him.
I can see Getzlaf as a second line center, if he's really hot at the time. And Perry can play with Crosby, IF he improves his play. (I don't have any of them on the team now, but I can change it in 9 months, if there is a good reason)

This is my team right now:

E.Staal - Crosby - Neal
Nash - Stamkos - St. Louis
Tavares - Toews - Sharp
Hall - Bergeron - Giroux

13th forward: J. Staal
14th forward: Seguin / Eberle


And the version with both Getzlaf and Perry:


Tavares - Crosby - Nash
E. Staal - Stamkos - St. Louis
Getzlaf - Toews - Perry
Neal - Bergeron - Giroux

13th: Sharp


Well, the second roster is really risky in terms of defense abilities... on the other hand you have amazing 4 scoring lines with Neal and Giroux on the 4th line - but not sure which line would be the one playing against Malkin / Parise / H. Sedin, etc... and that's the problem.

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03-05-2013, 01:02 PM
  #940
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no, he is turning 38 this summer in june, and I think will have to still be playing at an extremely high level next year to earn a spot. He also wasn't great in Torino, but neither was anybody else, so I don't know if that will have any weight.
If his age and a tournament that happened 7 years ago are the only reasons you can think of to leave him off, then perhaps that says something.

Obviously he has to be playing at a high level, he is now, and he doesn't look like he has any plans of slowing down. It's only a year away now, time to put away the "he'll be 38, young guys will pass him, blah blah blah," argument. (Wouldn't surprise me at all if this team is already chosen, give or take a few players who jump to NHL stardom next year, like Doughty in 2010, etc.) The fact is he's the best natural winger Canada has (arguably the best in the NHL, too), and he damn well earned his spot on the team, he's done as much as a Giroux or a Stamkos has in the last few years.

I don't mean to ramble, I was extremely disappointed with his exclusion last time around. I think he's made it a personal mission of his to be there in 2014, and I think Yzerman knows that. Yzerman has endorsed him as a future HHOFer a few times since he has come to Tampa, and what does that say if he leaves a future HHOFer who's in his prime off of the Olympic team TWICE?

I just can't see it happening.

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03-05-2013, 01:27 PM
  #941
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Carter is big, and a natural scorer, but in no way is he strong defensively. He tends to float quite abit by the blue lines, and that has been his biggest knock. Not strong defensively, and doesn't engage physically enough considering his frame. I still see him as a long shot.
Yeah, he's still on the outside looking in, but he's played himself into the conversation I believe. Carter seems to excel when he's not relied upon as the go-to guy to provide offense. He's not physical, no, which is unfortunate considering his size. I've seen him play very responsibly in his own end, backcheck hard, and play solid positionally. I've also seen him completely check out when he's not motivated or playing confidently. Consistency is an issue.

Much like Nash in 2010, who wasn't known as a great defensive player before the Olympics, I believe Carter has the skillset to play solid defensively if he's put in that role. All to say, he's not going to hurt us from a defensive standpoint if we're looking for an offensive dimension on the 3rd / 4th line.

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03-05-2013, 01:30 PM
  #942
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If his age and a tournament that happened 7 years ago are the only reasons you can think of to leave him off, then perhaps that says something.

Obviously he has to be playing at a high level, he is now, and he doesn't look like he has any plans of slowing down. It's only a year away now, time to put away the "he'll be 38, young guys will pass him, blah blah blah," argument. (Wouldn't surprise me at all if this team is already chosen, give or take a few players who jump to NHL stardom next year, like Doughty in 2010, etc.) The fact is he's the best natural winger Canada has (arguably the best in the NHL, too), and he damn well earned his spot on the team, he's done as much as a Giroux or a Stamkos has in the last few years.

I don't mean to ramble, I was extremely disappointed with his exclusion last time around. I think he's made it a personal mission of his to be there in 2014, and I think Yzerman knows that. Yzerman has endorsed him as a future HHOFer a few times since he has come to Tampa, and what does that say if he leaves a future HHOFer who's in his prime off of the Olympic team TWICE?

I just can't see it happening.
I still have MSL on my second line, right-side, playing with Stamkos and Eric Staal. Staal's there to provide some muscle and do the heavy lifting in the corners use his great speed to get back on the backcheck, and can keep up with the TB guys offensively, too. I think they'd be a great fit together.

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03-05-2013, 01:33 PM
  #943
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[/B]

Ya I think he was going to be Getzlaf's replacement if he's ankle (foot) kept him from the line-up. At least I think it was Getzlaf.

On another note, in the tradition of Doughty making it as a 19 year old in 2010 (and I was livid that Stamkos didn't) you see any 2nd year pros (current rookies) making the wow leap to the Olympic team next year? I don't anticipate any such player selection this time around.
No, not even close really. We're just too deep up front for a guy like Huberdeau to get even passing consideration, even if he wasn't a complete disaster in Ufa. Hamilton or Murray aren't competing anywhere near the Olympic level yet either.

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03-05-2013, 02:26 PM
  #944
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If his age and a tournament that happened 7 years ago are the only reasons you can think of to leave him off, then perhaps that says something.

Obviously he has to be playing at a high level, he is now, and he doesn't look like he has any plans of slowing down. It's only a year away now, time to put away the "he'll be 38, young guys will pass him, blah blah blah," argument. (Wouldn't surprise me at all if this team is already chosen, give or take a few players who jump to NHL stardom next year, like Doughty in 2010, etc.) The fact is he's the best natural winger Canada has (arguably the best in the NHL, too), and he damn well earned his spot on the team, he's done as much as a Giroux or a Stamkos has in the last few years.

I don't mean to ramble, I was extremely disappointed with his exclusion last time around. I think he's made it a personal mission of his to be there in 2014, and I think Yzerman knows that. Yzerman has endorsed him as a future HHOFer a few times since he has come to Tampa, and what does that say if he leaves a future HHOFer who's in his prime off of the Olympic team TWICE?

I just can't see it happening.
Look, I like St.Louis alot, but obviousally not as much as you. You asked if he is a lock, and I replied there is no way he can be a lock. He will have to be playing at a high level next year to get included. We are still a year out, and you don't know what happens to people the closer they get to 40, there bodies do start breaking down alot quicker. I didn't say he can't make it, there is just no way he is a lock right now.

The only locks up front are crosby, stamkos, tavares, giroux, toews, and staal i bet.

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03-05-2013, 04:34 PM
  #945
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[/B]On another note, in the tradition of Doughty making it as a 19 year old in 2010 (and I was livid that Stamkos didn't) you see any 2nd year pros (current rookies) making the wow leap to the Olympic team next year? I don't anticipate any such player selection this time around.
The 2012 draft, from a Canadian perspective, is nothing compared to the 2008 draft. There aren't any players in the NHL this year (Matteau is a Canadian playing for USA) so there is no comparable to Doughty. Hamilton is the closest comparison, and while he has been surprisingly solid for Boston, he's not near Doughty's level at that age.

When it comes to Martin St. Louis, I lean toward picking him. The guy is still playing great hockey, and his chemistry with Stamkos is instant offence. It can't hurt that Yzerman is his NHL GM as well. It's hard to see someone so dedicated, and so biased toward playmaking, falling off in less than a year. One thing noteworthy, for me anyway, is that I find it hard to make a roster with both St. Louis and Giroux. To me they are both playing for the second line RW, but I guess Giroux can slot in somewhere else.

Eric Staal is the player who I think has done the most this year to solidify their position. He looks really good this year, to the point that he's nearing lock status. Great size, speed, experience and playing well with some talented players. It helps that he can fit in on any line.

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03-05-2013, 04:36 PM
  #946
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Stamkos Crosby Perry
(Stamkos riding shotgun for Crosby and Perry provides scoring, grit, and a net front presence)
Nash Tavares Giroux
(Tavares and Giroux both have great hockey sense and scoring abilities and can set up Nash)
Benn Staal Neal
(All big, smart, good skaters they can score and bang bodies)
M.Richards Toews Bergeron
(All three are extremely versatile players can play anywhere in the line up, win draws, play defence, forecheck, etc. and Toews can and will move up and take a spot from anyone in the line up who is having a bad tournament)
Seguin
(Great skater, can score, smart I think he can play anywhere in the line up E.Kane, Hall, and Eberle could also take this spot in my mind)

or

Stamkos Crosby Perry
St. Louis Tavares Giroux
Nash Staal Neal
Benn Toews Bergeron
M.Richards

(If St. Louis is still playing at a high level next year)

Weber Doughty
(Both incredible defencemen)
Staal Pietrangelo
(Staal can shut guys down as can Pietrangelo and Pietrangelo is just great all around)
Keith Letang
(Both incredible skaters Keith is all around Letang is an offensive weapon)
Subban
(Great skater, is pretty good all around by next year he will be even better)

Price
(Great goalie, was unbelievably clutch in the WJC's)
Luongo
(Incase Price falters you know you can win games with Luongo I'm a little nervous about his big game ability)
Smith
(By default I don't trust MAF at all and Ward certainly could take this spot but I like Smith right now)

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03-06-2013, 03:54 AM
  #947
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The 2012 draft, from a Canadian perspective, is nothing compared to the 2008 draft. There aren't any players in the NHL this year (Matteau is a Canadian playing for USA) so there is no comparable to Doughty. Hamilton is the closest comparison, and while he has been surprisingly solid for Boston, he's not near Doughty's level at that age.

When it comes to Martin St. Louis, I lean toward picking him. The guy is still playing great hockey, and his chemistry with Stamkos is instant offence. It can't hurt that Yzerman is his NHL GM as well. It's hard to see someone so dedicated, and so biased toward playmaking, falling off in less than a year. One thing noteworthy, for me anyway, is that I find it hard to make a roster with both St. Louis and Giroux. To me they are both playing for the second line RW, but I guess Giroux can slot in somewhere else.

Eric Staal is the player who I think has done the most this year to solidify their position. He looks really good this year, to the point that he's nearing lock status. Great size, speed, experience and playing well with some talented players. It helps that he can fit in on any line.
We are in agreement re: MSL. I have him 2nd line RW with Stamkos and Giroux 3rd line with Towes as he his play has seem to come back just a bit from last year...I'd keep Giroux and Crosby apart as much as possible and while I have no doubt they would put aside any animosity for the team, I'd just prefer for those two to be kept separate.

Any confirmation yet as to when exactly orientation camp will be? I heard Labor Day weekend.

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03-06-2013, 08:03 PM
  #948
RacMan93
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Patrice Bergeron
Sidney Crosby
Matt Duchene
Jordan Eberle
Calude Giroux
Taylor Hall
Rick Nash
Corey Perry
Mike Richards
Martin St-Louis
Eric Staal
Steven Stamkos
John Tavares
Johnathan Toews

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Old
03-08-2013, 08:48 AM
  #949
TheFatOne
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Chris Kunitz, if he keeps it up, should get a look.

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03-08-2013, 09:22 AM
  #950
JackSlater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landskronala View Post
Chris Kunitz, if he keeps it up, should get a look.
I disagree. There is a long history of a mediocre player putting up tremendous stats while playing with a dominant player of the day. There is nothing to prove that Kunitz is much better than a 55 point player without Crosby, and that is unlikely to change given his age.

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