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Grabner's Ice Time?

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Old
03-07-2013, 10:24 PM
  #1
SI
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Grabner's Ice Time?

What is going on with Grabner's ice time?

His ice time in the last 5 games-

NYR - 11 + (2 of those minutes were Shorthanded)
MNT - 12:21
OTT - 13:11
TOR - 11:24
BOS - 10:52

At the beginning of the season we were seeing 17, 20, 19, 18 minutes of playing time.
Now, he hasn't played more than 15 mins since 2/9th.

Grabner needs to be playing top 6 minutes.

It doesn't sit well with me when Boyes, Bailey, Okposo, Martin, and at times
Mcdonald, Cizikas, and Reasoner are getting more time than Grabner.

Tonight against the Rangers, Grabner played 9:11 minutes at Even strength?! why?
Boyes played 17, Bailey and Okposo nearly had 17 and their shot total together totaled to 3. Grabner had 4.

Trying to get my head around what the logic here is...
Is Grabner a liability at EV? Are they trying to inflate Boyes worth for the trade deadline?
Are they trying to see what they have in Bailey as a top 6?

Grabner needs to get paired back up with Fransie or maybe let's see what he could do with Moulson and JT.

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Old
03-07-2013, 10:28 PM
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Renbarg
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Okie - Frans - Bailey have put in at least 4 good games in a row, where they get good O-time and create some chances.

You don't want to break up the JT line.

the Cizikas, Martin and CMac line have put in good minutes as well.

Its just a matter of Grabner being the odd man out (and still scoring with Reasoner). You'll notice that Grabs also gets the odd double shift and gets plenty of ice in OT as well as obviously shorthanded.

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03-07-2013, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
Okie - Frans - Bailey have put in at least 4 good games in a row, where they get good O-time and create some chances.

You don't want to break up the JT line.

the Cizikas, Martin and CMac line have put in good minutes as well.

Its just a matter of Grabner being the odd man out (and still scoring with Reasoner). You'll notice that Grabs also gets the odd double shift and gets plenty of ice in OT as well as obviously shorthanded.
Ignoring Nielsen, because Grabner is not a center, Grabner is a better player than any winger on this time by a mile. The icetime he receives is a flat out joke. If we had a legitimate NHL coaching staff come in tomorrow, the first, and most obvious change they would make is finding 3-5 more minutes a night for Grabner.

Yeah, someone needs to be the odd man out of Boyes, Bailey, Okposo and Grabner and it SHOULDNT BE THE BEST PLAYER OF THE BUNCH.

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03-07-2013, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islander102 View Post
Ignoring Nielsen, because Grabner is not a center, Grabner is a better player than any winger on this time by a mile. The icetime he receives is a flat out joke. If we had a legitimate NHL coaching staff come in tomorrow, the first, and most obvious change they would make is finding 3-5 more minutes a night for Grabner.

Yeah, someone needs to be the odd man out of Boyes, Bailey, Okposo and Grabner and it SHOULDNT BE THE BEST PLAYER OF THE BUNCH.
Bailey is a better hockey player than Grabner is. Almost all of Grabner's chances come from his speed and that's it. I rarely see him control the puck well in the offensive zone, he's soft and doesn't hit ever, his shot isn't very good, his hands aren't very good, etc.

He could get better, and I think he has this season from last, but Bailey is a much better playmaker and has more hockey sense than Grabner does. I firmly believe that if Bailey had another player who was actually good, you'd see his scoring go up tremendously and he'd put up a lot of points.

With that said, Grabner does deserve top 6 minutes and I'd prefer to see him out there instead of the turnover machine that is Okposo.

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03-07-2013, 11:32 PM
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petrocelli
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Along with Grabner's lack of playing time, the same thing was being done to Cizikas all season. I don't know if it changed at all the past 3 or 4 games, but up to this point, Cikikas was playing less minutes than any other dressed forward and the sad part is how obvious it is to everyone except Capuano apparently, that Cizikas was one of our best forwards each and every game. Capuano just sucks.. period! From the lines he develops, inability to change-up his lines if they aren't scoring, and his distribution of minutes, Cap couldn't be any worse.

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03-07-2013, 11:35 PM
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DanNYI2191
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It's Capuano's...er...um...element of surprise?

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03-08-2013, 02:48 AM
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Caps logic: Since I reduced his ice time, he started scoring again. So it's all because of my coaching skills. No need to change what seems to be working by pure accident.

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03-08-2013, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by TriCycleDriveBy View Post
Bailey is a better hockey player than Grabner is. Almost all of Grabner's chances come from his speed and that's it. I rarely see him control the puck well in the offensive zone, he's soft and doesn't hit ever, his shot isn't very good, his hands aren't very good, etc.

He could get better, and I think he has this season from last, but Bailey is a much better playmaker and has more hockey sense than Grabner does. I firmly believe that if Bailey had another player who was actually good, you'd see his scoring go up tremendously and he'd put up a lot of points.

With that said, Grabner does deserve top 6 minutes and I'd prefer to see him out there instead of the turnover machine that is Okposo.
There is just about no way anyone can come close to saying that Josh Bailey is a better hockey player than Michael Grabner. All Grabner does in his pathetically limited icetime is produce goals and goals and goals.

Goals and points are hardly everything, but Bailey has 48 goals and 124 points in 305 NHL games, while Grabner has 69 goals and 108 points in 107 fewer games than Josh Bailey. When the goal and point differential is that stark, it kind of speaks for itself without getting into all the things a player does on the ice. Especially when one of those players is Josh Bailey, who is a total non factor on both sides of the puck on as many or more nights as any player on the team right now.

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03-08-2013, 06:34 AM
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Its a joke, on the bright side.... the Islanders are going to be a MUCH better team (if and) when a new coach is hired.

You can try and rationalize it anyway you want (bailey a better player (just comical) or grabner the odd man out or balance of lines etc) they ate all wrong.

Grabner is the 2nd most dangerous player on the team at Even strength and one of the better defensive forwards on the team... period, end of story. You build your second line around him. I have been saying this all year your lw-c combos for the first three lines should be set on stone:

Moulson. Tavares
Grabner. Nielsen
Martin Cizikas

Tinker all you want with rw and fourth line.

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03-08-2013, 06:53 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SI View Post
What is going on with Grabner's ice time?

His ice time in the last 5 games-

NYR - 11 + (2 of those minutes were Shorthanded)
MNT - 12:21
OTT - 13:11
TOR - 11:24
BOS - 10:52

At the beginning of the season we were seeing 17, 20, 19, 18 minutes of playing time.
Now, he hasn't played more than 15 mins since 2/9th.

Grabner needs to be playing top 6 minutes.

It doesn't sit well with me when Boyes, Bailey, Okposo, Martin, and at times
Mcdonald, Cizikas, and Reasoner are getting more time than Grabner.

Tonight against the Rangers, Grabner played 9:11 minutes at Even strength?! why?
Boyes played 17, Bailey and Okposo nearly had 17 and their shot total together totaled to 3. Grabner had 4.

Trying to get my head around what the logic here is...
Is Grabner a liability at EV? Are they trying to inflate Boyes worth for the trade deadline?
Are they trying to see what they have in Bailey as a top 6?

Grabner needs to get paired back up with Fransie or maybe let's see what he could do with Moulson and JT.
grabs has a unique skill set, but he is a very difficult player to play with. i am guessing thats why several posters (including me) think that bailey is a better (more complete) hockey player than grabs. But grabs can produce better currently, we all know that much.

I think as long as grabs scores with reasoner, they will leave him where he is. But understanding the cappy is a futile exercise.

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03-08-2013, 07:13 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
Its a joke, on the bright side.... the Islanders are going to be a MUCH better team (if and) when a new coach is hired.

You can try and rationalize it anyway you want (bailey a better player (just comical) or grabner the odd man out or balance of lines etc) they ate all wrong.

Grabner is the 2nd most dangerous player on the team at Even strength and one of the better defensive forwards on the team... period, end of story. You build your second line around him. I have been saying this all year your lw-c combos for the first three lines should be set on stone:

Moulson. Tavares
Grabner. Nielsen
Martin Cizikas

Tinker all you want with rw and fourth line.
couldn't agree more!

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03-08-2013, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
Okie - Frans - Bailey have put in at least 4 good games in a row, where they get good O-time and create some chances.
Yes, Bailey and Okposo have really been lighting the lamp.

They had one good game against the Leafs - that's it. They may have been playing better in terms of effort, positioning, etc. but without the scoring, they are useless. Grabner should be playing 5-8 more minutes per game and the other two should be packaged in a trade for a bag of pucks.

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03-08-2013, 08:41 AM
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Grabner is a more effective player when he plays 10-15 minutes. In the right role, he's a dangerous weapon.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have gotten a couple more minutes, but not 17 minutes.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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03-08-2013, 08:59 AM
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Big fan of Grabs, but somehow Dan-o16 has a point. Maybe his speed and explosiveness are more effective when he's playing fewer minutes.
Still the combination of 4th line ES minutes and limited linemates is unusual for one of the team's top forwards regarding ES points and +/-. Think he has earned a shot on a higher line with his good play as of late.

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03-08-2013, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Grabner is a more effective player when he plays 10-15 minutes. In the right role, he's a dangerous weapon.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have gotten a couple more minutes, but not 17 minutes.

Cheers,

Dan-o
This has a lot to do with it but I also think Grabner is not a "chemistry" player and creates 90% of his opportunities on his own. Chemistry is a must in the top-6 so no need to mess with that when Grabner is a threat on any line.

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03-08-2013, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by StumpNYI View Post
This has a lot to do with it but I also think Grabner is not a "chemistry" player and creates 90% of his opportunities on his own. Chemistry is a must in the top-6 so no need to mess with that when Grabner is a threat on any line.
You call it chemistry, I'll call it 'winning battles'. Grabner is purely opportunistic player. Whatever the terminology, we agree.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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03-08-2013, 10:01 AM
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It doesnt make sense, but the team has rolled 4 lines for the most part. Grabner should be out there as much as he can handle. You saw he was out for a long shift and STILL had enough legs to make whichever rangers dman look like he was standing in cement. IF youre not already skating backwards, hes going to beat you. No reason he shouldnt be top 6 in terms of forwards minutes. Hes scoring, playing very well defensively and is intimidating with his wheels. Put him with JT and see what happens. His speed would create so much space for Johnny and we see what he can do with no space, so imagine if he had time. Scary thought, but it wont happen.

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03-08-2013, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isles31 View Post
Put him with JT and see what happens. His speed would create so much space for Johnny and we see what he can do with no space, so imagine if he had time. Scary thought, but it wont happen.
I'd be interested in seeing this.

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03-08-2013, 10:50 AM
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The handling of Grabner last night (against the Rags) was an abomination.

He was the best Islander forward out there for the first 2 periods. I saw him on the end of the bench for the 3rd period.

WTF?!?!?!?!??!

Clearly Capuano is an imbasile. The guy's defensively responsible, has the wheels to generate, and can get back on anything. Sit him during a 1-0 lead. What a jackass Capuano is.

What are the odds that Grabner ends up on a break w/NYR desparately pressing and pinching down a goal in the 3rd?

Pretty frickin' good, I'd say.

But yet Fatso sits him.

Fire this schmucks ass and put Doug Weight at the helm. At least he has the respect of the refs and will rip them a new one to get this team some respect.

Instead, Fatso sits there and glares.

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03-08-2013, 10:57 AM
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I agree, I think Grabner has been one of our better forwards this year and I would love to see him playing with Tavares actually, but I don't think that's going to happen

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03-08-2013, 11:29 AM
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In a sense, the Isles have a unique situation with Grabner. He can play on any line and be equally dangerous. So I kinda like him as a 10-15 minute player.

I'd play him with two energy guys who are responsible defensively and can be aware enough to look for a breakout pass. Nielsen was great at that. Reasoner's generally a pretty bad player but he's consistent. Maybe it's time to get Aucoin back in and Reasoner sits. Both Aucoin and Cizikas could work well with Grabs.

I don't like him with JT but it's worth a shot.

Let's face it, things aren't working, the Isles will miss the playoffs if they don't improve significantly. I don't think that can happen unless this very same group of players do better, both offensively AND defensively.

Moulson - Tavares - Martin
Bailey - Cizikas - Boyes
Grabner - Nielsen - McDonald
Ullstrom - Aucoin - Okposo

Maybe these provide enough balance on every line, some bite, some energy, some offense and much more defense.

In a sense, it's a first line, and three third lines. But may help significantly at even strength.

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03-08-2013, 11:52 AM
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I am a Bailey supporter(frustrated supporter) but I whole heartedly agree IMHO that Grabner has been hands down the best wing on this team and has earned more minutes (Matt martin may be the only other one to mention in the conversation but for different reasons).

Something has to be done on the first line, something has to be done to get Grabner more minutes. Sounds like a match. I know it didnt work out too well last year but then again Grabner this year is much much better than grabner last year. Worst case he should be with Frans on the second line now.

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03-08-2013, 12:06 PM
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I don't have a problem with him playing reduced minutes. Even though he kills penalties, I have not been impressed with his play in his own zone. He also is not physical.

Right now, the JT line is on the ice as much as possible, and the Nielsen line is being relied on for d.

Grabner is great at what he does, skate like the wind and create opportunities off the rush. But what he doesn't do often enough (last night's beautiful goal being an exception) is create sustained pressure in the offensive zone.

I won't say that Grabner is a liability on the ice, but he is more of a risk/reward type player. He can break loose at any point, but the other team will often be able to keep the puck in the Isles zone for long periods of time.

Nielsen is a good fit with Grabner since he has the passing skills to spring him and is capable defensively. The problem is that adding Grabner instead of Bailey brings down the defensive value of the line, something that I think Capuano needs right now.

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03-08-2013, 01:26 PM
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19 in a row
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Quote:
Arthur Staple ‏@StapeNewsday
@garik16 Yes, and with the Fs they have, he should be more adaptable. I think Grabner will be back with Nielsen tomorrow. Just a hunch.
Was just thinking this then saw Staple had posted his own thoughts.

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03-08-2013, 02:01 PM
  #25
Chapin Landvogt
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I don't even think it's a coaching decision.

Grabner just takes short shifts. It's what he does. Either he gets tired quick or he has that sense of energy conservation. Some guys know they'll wear out quickly if that don't take short and concentrated shifts. And heck, who are we to say how much energy he burns off every time he skates past a guy from 0-to-100 in just seconds? I'm sure that takes its toll...

Other guys simply take longer shifts, like Okposo for example.

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