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Perry to Pittsburgh (if he doesn't want to re-sign w/ Ducks)

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Old
03-08-2013, 09:13 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Yeah those scrubs in Anaheim like Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Selanne, Koivu, Fowler, Beauchemin etc have no shot of doing anything
You are kind of helping me prove my point. It is about making the tough decision to do what's best for the long term health of the team, vs win or bust. If you keep Perry and you win this year, or he resigns, it's the right decision. However, if you keep him and don't win it and he walks, well then you just set your franchise back 3-5 years. Trading him could at least land you NHL ready futures, picks, and some NHL players that could bridge the gap.

Now that being said, I personally hope that the Ducks hold on to him because I think if the Pens have any shot at getting him, it will be via FA. I know Ray won't make the biggest offer, so our only hope would be FA. Let's face it, if Perry wants to sign with the Pens at the end of the year, he will do it regardless if we acquire him via trade or not. So why give up assets, if you will get him for nothing if he chooses.

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03-08-2013, 09:14 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
I'd like to see a precedent of a team in Anaheims current position, trading one of it's best players mid-season and blowing away a chance at a deep playoff run. I honestly can't think of one off the top of my head
There isn't one. This is just desperate scrounging. I don't even know why they think he'd be leaving because he wants to sign there. I get why the Ontario fan bases do, seeing as that's the most likely landing spot, what with the way that he bolts for their province the moment the season ends.

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03-08-2013, 09:18 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
You are kind of helping me prove my point. It is about making the tough decision to do what's best for the long term health of the team, vs win or bust. If you keep Perry and you win this year, or he resigns, it's the right decision. However, if you keep him and don't win it and he walks, well then you just set your franchise back 3-5 years. Trading him could at least land you NHL ready futures, picks, and some NHL players that could bridge the gap.
Nothing you're offering us has a hand in giving us a long term future. A 1st and a D prospect just have potential to do that. There isn't anything guaranteed in that. So what, we give up one of the best wingers in the league for Kunitz? Our prospect pool is fine, adding Olli and some other prospect out of the late 1st doesn't change anything.

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03-08-2013, 09:18 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
It really is. It also really has nothing to do with our situation. Kunitz does not replace Perry. We don't have two better wingers ahead of Perry on our depth chart.
I don't want to trade Kunitz for him. I've given up on the fact that the Pens can land him via trade. However, that doesn't mean that trading him isn't the safe play for long term success, whether it is to the Pens, or another team.

Once again, I hope he stays in Anaheim. Getting Perry via FA is the only shot the Pens have of signing him.

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03-08-2013, 09:19 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
You are kind of helping me prove my point. It is about making the tough decision to do what's best for the long term health of the team, vs win or bust. If you keep Perry and you win this year, or he resigns, it's the right decision. However, if you keep him and don't win it and he walks, well then you just set your franchise back 3-5 years. Trading him could at least land you NHL ready futures, picks, and some NHL players that could bridge the gap.

Now that being said, I personally hope that the Ducks hold on to him because I think if the Pens have any shot at getting him, it will be via FA. I know Ray won't make the biggest offer, so our only hope would be FA. Let's face it, if Perry wants to sign with the Pens at the end of the year, he will do it regardless if we acquire him via trade or not. So why give up assets, if you will get him for nothing if he chooses.
the ducks are pretty healthy long term as is, trading Perry for spare parts won't make much difference. if we lose him so be it, wing is a position that can be replaced, not that Perry is easily replaceable, only it's not as important as center. I think most duck fans would be far more scared to lose Getzlaf

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03-08-2013, 09:20 AM
  #106
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i don't know why the Ducks fans in here are getting so touchy. to be fair, i don't even want Perry on the Pens because of what he will cost to acquire (by his contract and a trade, if the Ducks trade him). the Ducks just don't have a reason to trade him yet. if they were sucking this year, they would (if they knew for sure that he didn't want to re-sign there). since they're actually one of the better teams in the league right now, they should hang onto him for one more run.

then, if Perry STILL doesn't want to re-sign with the Ducks, i think the Pens should see what his asking price is. if it's too high (which is close to a guarantee), the Pens should look at other options.

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03-08-2013, 09:21 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
I don't want to trade Kunitz for him. I've given up on the fact that the Pens can land him via trade. However, that doesn't mean that trading him isn't the safe play for long term success, whether it is to the Pens, or another team.

Once again, I hope he stays in Anaheim. Getting Perry via FA is the only shot the Pens have of signing him.
You're hiding behind vague statements. Tell me something specific that needs to be there, because when I look at that prospect pool, I don't see any position that's wanting for talent.

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03-08-2013, 09:24 AM
  #108
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I didn't read the whole thread so don't flame me for this, but how exactly will the Penguins fit Perry under their cap next season? Next to Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Neal, Fleury and all the other guys, how does a 6.5-7 mill player still fit in?

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03-08-2013, 09:25 AM
  #109
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i don't know why the Ducks fans in here are getting so touchy. to be fair, i don't even want Perry on the Pens because of what he will cost to acquire (by his contract and a trade, if the Ducks trade him). the Ducks just don't have a reason to trade him yet. if they were sucking this year, they would (if they knew for sure that he didn't want to re-sign there). since they're actually one of the better teams in the league right now, they should hang onto him for one more run.

then, if Perry STILL doesn't want to re-sign with the Ducks, i think the Pens should see what his asking price is. if it's too high (which is close to a guarantee), the Pens should look at other options.
We're getting tired of hearing people tell us that we NEED to trade him. We're also getting tired of explaining the fact that the playoffs this year are more important than whatever crappy rental package usually gets tossed at teams in this sort of situation. The money is more important to us than picks and prospects. Even if we fall short of the cup, going for that money is still absolutely necessary for a team in our market. A big market team can afford to make that trade off. I doubt that we can.

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03-08-2013, 09:29 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
I'd like to see a precedent of a team in Anaheims current position, trading one of it's best players mid-season and blowing away a chance at a deep playoff run. I honestly can't think of one off the top of my head
Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it isn't the right move. First of all, the cap era hasn't been around long enough to have multiple examples of a big name UFA to be, on a team that is in the cup chase. The only 2 I can think of are Parise and Suter. NJ is in 7th in the east, and Nashville is 11th in the west, and neither won the Cup.

Now, what happens to NJ when Marty retires? Moving Parise to say Vancouver last year for Schneider + would look nice right about now.

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03-08-2013, 09:31 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
the ducks are pretty healthy long term as is, trading Perry for spare parts won't make much difference. if we lose him so be it, wing is a position that can be replaced, not that Perry is easily replaceable, only it's not as important as center. I think most duck fans would be far more scared to lose Getzlaf
OK. What if you could move him for a nice young center with upside and some picks or prospects.....this is what I'm talking about.

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03-08-2013, 09:33 AM
  #112
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I didn't read the whole thread so don't flame me for this, but how exactly will the Penguins fit Perry under their cap next season? Next to Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Neal, Fleury and all the other guys, how does a 6.5-7 mill player still fit in?
That is exactly what I'm thinking too when the some Pens fans think Perry should be or would be an option, especially since the cap is coming down, not going up. It makes absolutely NO SENSE. Then, there is mortgaging the farm to get him as a rental and he bolts. What are you left with? Nothing.

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03-08-2013, 09:35 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
You're hiding behind vague statements. Tell me something specific that needs to be there, because when I look at that prospect pool, I don't see any position that's wanting for talent.
Are you actually reading my posts, or just guessing what I'm saying. I SAID THAT I HAVE GIVEN UP ON THE PENS TRADING FOR HIM.

Now, that doesn't mean that trading him elsewhere for the right package that can help (example being one built around a young center), is a bad move.

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03-08-2013, 09:38 AM
  #114
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That is exactly what I'm thinking too when the some Pens fans think Perry should be or would be an option, especially since the cap is coming down, not going up. It makes absolutely NO SENSE. Then, there is mortgaging the farm to get him as a rental and he bolts. What are you left with? Nothing.
I am not watching too many Pens games, but a Top 3 winger doesn't strike me as your primary need. IMO you should bolster your defensive core. With Malkin, Crosby, Kunitz and Neal you have enough offensive firepower.

BTW I doubt I can sell Pens fans on a Perry (long term signed) for Malkin (long term signed) trade?

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03-08-2013, 09:38 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
We're getting tired of hearing people tell us that we NEED to trade him. We're also getting tired of explaining the fact that the playoffs this year are more important than whatever crappy rental package usually gets tossed at teams in this sort of situation. The money is more important to us than picks and prospects. Even if we fall short of the cup, going for that money is still absolutely necessary for a team in our market. A big market team can afford to make that trade off. I doubt that we can.
Do you think that trading Perry with 10 games left will put you in jeopardy of not making the playoffs? You will still be a playoff team capable of advancing.

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03-08-2013, 09:55 AM
  #116
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I am not watching too many Pens games, but a Top 3 winger doesn't strike me as your primary need. IMO you should bolster your defensive core. With Malkin, Crosby, Kunitz and Neal you have enough offensive firepower.

BTW I doubt I can sell Pens fans on a Perry (long term signed) for Malkin (long term signed) trade?
On the surface, you are right. We can score and get away with what we have. That said, outside of Neal and Kunitz who is having a career year, Dupuis, Cooke, Bennett are our next three top forwards. Dupes is a third line guy playing top line because of chemistry with Crosby. He is 33 and is a pending UFA. Cooke is a pending UFA and is 34. Not old, but ... Bennett is a rookie still finding his way. I still say we need a quality young winger. If Cooke or Dupes leave, not sure they will, you have a gaping hole moving forward. Sorry Dustin Jeffrey or Tyler Kennedy don't foot the bill.

They have two moves to make regardless IMO ... a third line winger to get Kennedy out of there. A tough guy that can provide good solid defense and put some points on the board (a Clutterbuck type) AND a tough stay at home D man (a younger Brooks Orpik type).

I won't even answer your BTW.

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03-08-2013, 09:57 AM
  #117
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Do you think that trading Perry with 10 games left will put you in jeopardy of not making the playoffs? You will still be a playoff team capable of advancing.
Tough situation to be in. Very good team that can challenge for the Cup. You have a guy that most likely won't resign in Anaheim, one of your top guys too boot. Teams this time of year won't give you a prime roster player in return - its picks and prospects. If Anaheim was in the same situation it was in a year ago, picks and prospects probably work, but not this year with the way they are playing.

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03-08-2013, 10:07 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
Are you actually reading my posts, or just guessing what I'm saying. I SAID THAT I HAVE GIVEN UP ON THE PENS TRADING FOR HIM.

Now, that doesn't mean that trading him elsewhere for the right package that can help (example being one built around a young center), is a bad move.
Are you reading mine? I didn't say one thing about the Pens trading for Perry in that post you quoted.

As for your other posts. You seem to be glossing over the fact that the Devils needed that revenue last year. Remember that story about their financial troubles in the weeks leading up to last season's deadline? Remember how those stories disappeared after their playoff run. You're not considering that this is a business first. You also have no clue about this team if you think that this team is looking at multiple playoff rounds if we lose Perry; that is pure stat-scouting. We have young centers.

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03-08-2013, 10:29 AM
  #119
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Are you reading mine? I didn't say one thing about the Pens trading for Perry in that post you quoted.

As for your other posts. You seem to be glossing over the fact that the Devils needed that revenue last year. Remember that story about their financial troubles in the weeks leading up to last season's deadline? Remember how those stories disappeared after their playoff run. You're not considering that this is a business first. You also have no clue about this team if you think that this team is looking at multiple playoff rounds if we lose Perry; that is pure stat-scouting. We have young centers.
I think that you are selling the rest of your team way short thinking that they can't advance without Perry. The Pens were 1 goal away from advancing without Crosby and Malkin and Cooke. Losing the 3 of them has Way more of an impact that the Ducks just losing Perry. Once again, not saying that it isn't a big loss, but rather pointing out what Sheen pointed out earlier...Getzlaf, Ryan, Selanne, Koivu, Fowler, etc. is still a core capable of advancing and bringing in playoff revenue.

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03-08-2013, 10:39 AM
  #120
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I think that you are selling the rest of your team way short thinking that they can't advance without Perry. The Pens were 1 goal away from advancing without Crosby and Malkin and Cooke. Losing the 3 of them has Way more of an impact that the Ducks just losing Perry. Once again, not saying that it isn't a big loss, but rather pointing out what Sheen pointed out earlier...Getzlaf, Ryan, Selanne, Koivu, Fowler, etc. is still a core capable of advancing and bringing in playoff revenue.
Teemu isn't what he used to be. He has points, but his age has been showing since last year. His line is the one that is almost always the biggest mess. We aren't going to deliberately hobble our team because just maybe they can pull it out. We want the best team possible playing in that cup run. Our future is more than fine.

We got that security when we traded Pronger. Our prospect pool is deeper than Jersey or Nashville had when they chose to stick it out with their guys. Short of there being a major collapse. Moving Perry doesn't make a lot of sense when it is placed in its proper context.

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03-08-2013, 10:45 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
I think that you are selling the rest of your team way short thinking that they can't advance without Perry. The Pens were 1 goal away from advancing without Crosby and Malkin and Cooke. Losing the 3 of them has Way more of an impact that the Ducks just losing Perry. Once again, not saying that it isn't a big loss, but rather pointing out what Sheen pointed out earlier...Getzlaf, Ryan, Selanne, Koivu, Fowler, etc. is still a core capable of advancing and bringing in playoff revenue.
Wait, what? Are you really trying to argue that losing their best winger wouldn't hurt their chances to advance? I'm sorry, but that argument is more than a little absurd.

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03-08-2013, 11:06 AM
  #122
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Wait, what? Are you really trying to argue that losing their best winger wouldn't hurt their chances to advance? I'm sorry, but that argument is more than a little absurd.
I would like for you to point out where I said it wouldn't hurt their chances. I said it would hurt, but there are other players capable of winning a series or two.

There are just so many conflicting reports of how the prospect pool is viewed by Ducks fans. You have people saying that losing Perry isn't as big of a deal because they have wing depth but would be more afraid of losing Getz because center isn't deep. Then someone else will say the center depth is just fine.

IMO the posters are in the same stage as NJ fans, Preds fans, and Pens fans where in when people talked about them losing Parise, Suter, Staal respectively. I remember many of us on the Pens board talking about how trading Staal made no sense for a win now team, and that Staal would resign, and that Shero would make it a priority etc. A lot of that talk stems from wanting to believe that he would resign, and pointing to all the reasons you think they will. NJ fans came up with everything under the sun as to why Parise was staying in NJ from him being Captain, to his future wife wanting to stay in NJ because she liked her teaching job, to someone who talked to Parise and told him he was staying.

So once again, it is not best for this year to trade him, and yes it will hurt. But IMO it will not hurt the franchise as much as it would to not win the cup, AND get nothing for him.

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03-08-2013, 11:17 AM
  #123
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I would like for you to point out where I said it wouldn't hurt their chances. I said it would hurt, but there are other players capable of winning a series or two.

There are just so many conflicting reports of how the prospect pool is viewed by Ducks fans. You have people saying that losing Perry isn't as big of a deal because they have wing depth but would be more afraid of losing Getz because center isn't deep. Then someone else will say the center depth is just fine.

IMO the posters are in the same stage as NJ fans, Preds fans, and Pens fans where in when people talked about them losing Parise, Suter, Staal respectively. I remember many of us on the Pens board talking about how trading Staal made no sense for a win now team, and that Staal would resign, and that Shero would make it a priority etc. A lot of that talk stems from wanting to believe that he would resign, and pointing to all the reasons you think they will. NJ fans came up with everything under the sun as to why Parise was staying in NJ from him being Captain, to his future wife wanting to stay in NJ because she liked her teaching job, to someone who talked to Parise and told him he was staying.

So once again, it is not best for this year to trade him, and yes it will hurt. But IMO it will not hurt the franchise as much as it would to not win the cup, AND get nothing for him.
With all due respect, Jordan Staal and Corey Perry aren't even remotely the same. To begin with, Perry is a significantly better player. Then you have Pittsburgh's depth down the middle at the time, which begins with Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. To even compare the two situations, well, I'll just say it's pretty bad.

My issue isn't with you trying to say Anaheim may benefit from getting something for Perry now, instead of risk losing him for nothing. What I have a problem with is the argument you're trying to set forth to try to make your point. Perry is a player who can be the difference between advancing in a playoff series. He's a player who, simply put, is capable of being the best player for Anaheim. The Ducks aren't going to look ahead at the playoffs and say "Well, we got there... let's move Perry." What kind of message does that send to the players? The playoffs are enough?

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03-08-2013, 11:33 AM
  #124
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Kunitz, Maata and a 1st is pretty damn good for a UFA Perry. Now, if you had good cause to suspect that you could retain him long-term, that'd change the equation. But as a rental? Those are some quality assets.
And since when does a team having excellent season trade away its best goal scorer at the deadline? The Ducks are a very competitive team this year. Breaking up that team against the chance that Perry might not re-sign would be beyond stupid. It's not going to happen.

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03-08-2013, 11:36 AM
  #125
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The Penguins already traded away a star that they knew they would be unable to sign----->Exibit A: Jordan Staal.
They traded away Staal after the season ended. Very different story.

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Now, what happens to NJ when Marty retires? Moving Parise to say Vancouver last year for Schneider + would look nice right about now.
That is a completely vacuous argument. The Devils made it to the finals last season.

You're making no sense at all in this thread.

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That said, you seem to be ignoring the entire premise of the thread laid out explicitly in the OP.
Oh, sorry. Now that I've read it, I'll tell you that the premise is silly. It'll never happen unless the Ducks go into absolute free-fall.

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I sincerely doubt the Ducks would get offered a better package anywhere.
Kunitz is too old to be the centerpiece of a trade for a young scorer.

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