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2013 Draft Discussion (Mar. 29 article, post #976)

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03-07-2013, 09:53 PM
  #426
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03-07-2013, 09:53 PM
  #427
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9th overall pick at the moment. Can't see us getting the top 3 pick. Florida, Colorado and CLB are terrible.
We can be worse!!! HAVE FAITH!!

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03-07-2013, 10:00 PM
  #428
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This team is a mess right now. There is a good foundation in place though. When you consider there's Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, B. Schenn, Couturier, Grossmann, L.Schenn in place, that's not a bad foundation to build around. Add in Laughton, Cousins, Stolarz and Gostisbehere and there's a real solid foundation in place. With that being said, there's work left to do.

I'm hoping Holmgren goes nuts and decides to unload everyone but those guys listed above. After tonight's debacle, Bryzgalov can no longer be relied upon or defended with regards to his play. Yes, the mess of a defensive system the Flyers use certainly doesn't help, but he's being paid a lot of money to rise to the occasion and he's failed to do so. He needs to be bought out in the off season. Sign a guy like Jimmy Howard to be the top guy and sign Anton Khudobin to be the back up. That allows Stolarz the time he needs to develop.

As for the defense, the Flyers desperately need to draft defenders. Look at Pittsburgh. As much as everyone on here despises them, they have a fantastic pipeline of defenders. Despres, Harrington, Maatta, Pouliot, Morrow and Dumoulin is a disgustingly rich pipeline they have. The Flyers need that.

Depending on where the Flyers finish, they're going to have a very nice group of defenders to choose from - Nurse, Pullock, Morrissey, Zadorov, and Ristolainen should be the defenders they're looking at. No wingers, no centers. They need defenders. The five of those guys are lead defenders that the Flyers can use to build the defense around. You can't go wrong with any of those guys. The defensive depth in this year's draft is one of the highest in quite some time, so I don't see any problems with also landing a top defender in the 2nd round as well. Robert Hagg, Mirco Muller, Ian McCoshen, Matt Murphy and Tom Vanelli can all be had in the 2nd. Two premium defenders should be a must for the Flyers this draft.

Finally, it's time for a new head coach and a new system. I have no problem with playing an offensive system, but I'm tired of the lack of defensive discipline this club shows. I'm also tired of the way he rewards ice time to players. Schenn and Couturier with less ice time than Briere? Really? I watched Giroux's interview and it's clear - Laviolette has lost the locker room. It's got to be toxic in there right now.

As for Holmgren, he's got to be on a tight leash. I know Clarke is a confidant, but I'm wondering if Snider will fire Holmgren and have Clarke run the show temporarily while they look for someone out the organization who can bring a fresh approach. I know some will say "retread", but to me, Hextall in LA would be the guy I'd want them to bring in and be the GM.

Anyways, enough of my rant. Tonight was the last straw. I hate the word "tank", but play out the season, rebuild in the off season and be ready for 2013 - 2014.

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03-07-2013, 10:46 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
They aren't bad enough to get a top 5 pick
Well, you know, the Leighton signing might not be as bad as we initially thought.

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03-07-2013, 11:23 PM
  #430
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We need to win that draft lotto, playboy.

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03-07-2013, 11:43 PM
  #431
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Hope we win the lottery but if not I hope we trade to get Jones. I don't care what it takes.

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03-08-2013, 07:31 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
This team is a mess right now. There is a good foundation in place though. When you consider there's Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, B. Schenn, Couturier, Grossmann, L.Schenn in place, that's not a bad foundation to build around. Add in Laughton, Cousins, Stolarz and Gostisbehere and there's a real solid foundation in place. With that being said, there's work left to do.

I'm hoping Holmgren goes nuts and decides to unload everyone but those guys listed above. After tonight's debacle, Bryzgalov can no longer be relied upon or defended with regards to his play. Yes, the mess of a defensive system the Flyers use certainly doesn't help, but he's being paid a lot of money to rise to the occasion and he's failed to do so. He needs to be bought out in the off season. Sign a guy like Jimmy Howard to be the top guy and sign Anton Khudobin to be the back up. That allows Stolarz the time he needs to develop.

As for the defense, the Flyers desperately need to draft defenders. Look at Pittsburgh. As much as everyone on here despises them, they have a fantastic pipeline of defenders. Despres, Harrington, Maatta, Pouliot, Morrow and Dumoulin is a disgustingly rich pipeline they have. The Flyers need that.

Depending on where the Flyers finish, they're going to have a very nice group of defenders to choose from - Nurse, Pullock, Morrissey, Zadorov, and Ristolainen should be the defenders they're looking at. No wingers, no centers. They need defenders. The five of those guys are lead defenders that the Flyers can use to build the defense around. You can't go wrong with any of those guys. The defensive depth in this year's draft is one of the highest in quite some time, so I don't see any problems with also landing a top defender in the 2nd round as well. Robert Hagg, Mirco Muller, Ian McCoshen, Matt Murphy and Tom Vanelli can all be had in the 2nd. Two premium defenders should be a must for the Flyers this draft.

Finally, it's time for a new head coach and a new system. I have no problem with playing an offensive system, but I'm tired of the lack of defensive discipline this club shows. I'm also tired of the way he rewards ice time to players. Schenn and Couturier with less ice time than Briere? Really? I watched Giroux's interview and it's clear - Laviolette has lost the locker room. It's got to be toxic in there right now.

As for Holmgren, he's got to be on a tight leash. I know Clarke is a confidant, but I'm wondering if Snider will fire Holmgren and have Clarke run the show temporarily while they look for someone out the organization who can bring a fresh approach. I know some will say "retread", but to me, Hextall in LA would be the guy I'd want them to bring in and be the GM.

Anyways, enough of my rant. Tonight was the last straw. I hate the word "tank", but play out the season, rebuild in the off season and be ready for 2013 - 2014.
Agree with most of what you said. If the Flyers miss the playoffs and are drafting that high, they should pick the best player available regardless of position. After the 1st rd, draft defensemen in bulk. I M skeptically of the Penguins pipeline. Shero hasn't drafted a single impact player yet except with Jordan Staal at 2 (with Toews on the board). He has done some great trades with the players that were acquired by Craig Patrick but his draft record has been crappy. Until one of those guys performs at the NHL level, its ur typically Penguins overarting suck fest IMO.

Lavy should be fired and Bryz should be given a shot under a more defensive system. He can be bought out in the summer of 2014, so I would wait. Bring in a good backup like Backstrom to challenge him next year.

I think Holmgren is safe. Luukko is the one calling the shots with Snider making the odd demand now and again. I think Luuko likes Holmgren and I think Snider does too. I doubt Clarke will come back. This is all speculation and a little hope on my part as Holmgren is head and shoulder better than Clarke. Clarke's answer was always add a forward whether you needed a goaltender or defensemen.

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03-08-2013, 07:40 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
Agree with most of what you said. If the Flyers miss the playoffs and are drafting that high, they should pick the best player available regardless of position. After the 1st rd, draft defensemen in bulk. I M skeptically of the Penguins pipeline. Shero hasn't drafted a single impact player yet except with Jordan Staal at 2 (with Toews on the board). He has done some great trades with the players that were acquired by Craig Patrick but his draft record has been crappy. Until one of those guys performs at the NHL level, its ur typically Penguins overarting suck fest IMO.

Lavy should be fired and Bryz should be given a shot under a more defensive system. He can be bought out in the summer of 2014, so I would wait. Bring in a good backup like Backstrom to challenge him next year.

I think Holmgren is safe. Luukko is the one calling the shots with Snider making the odd demand now and again. I think Luuko likes Holmgren and I think Snider does too. I doubt Clarke will come back. This is all speculation and a little hope on my part as Holmgren is head and shoulder better than Clarke. Clarke's answer was always add a forward whether you needed a goaltender or defensemen.
Backstrom to backup??? Doubt he bites at that.

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03-08-2013, 07:57 AM
  #434
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Backstrom to backup??? Doubt he bites at that.
He's pretty old. He might not have a choice.

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Old
03-08-2013, 08:41 AM
  #435
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Trade Briere, trade Coburn for 1sts each.

Trade Meszaros, Talbot, and fedotenko for the best picks you can get for them.

Buy out bryzgalov

Waive Gervais

Draft 2 defensemen and a winger in the 1st round. (I like Nurse, Pulock and Mantha)

Sign Corey Perry, Ladislav Smid and either Jimmy Howard if you can get him or Anton Khudobin.

Perry - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - Schenn - Simmonds
Gagne - Couturier - Read
Rinaldo - Laughton - ????

Timonen - Schenn
Grossmann - Smid
???? - ????

Howard
????

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03-08-2013, 09:26 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
This team is a mess right now. There is a good foundation in place though. When you consider there's Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, B. Schenn, Couturier, Grossmann, L.Schenn in place, that's not a bad foundation to build around. Add in Laughton, Cousins, Stolarz and Gostisbehere and there's a real solid foundation in place. With that being said, there's work left to do.

I'm hoping Holmgren goes nuts and decides to unload everyone but those guys listed above. After tonight's debacle, Bryzgalov can no longer be relied upon or defended with regards to his play. Yes, the mess of a defensive system the Flyers use certainly doesn't help, but he's being paid a lot of money to rise to the occasion and he's failed to do so. He needs to be bought out in the off season. Sign a guy like Jimmy Howard to be the top guy and sign Anton Khudobin to be the back up. That allows Stolarz the time he needs to develop.

As for the defense, the Flyers desperately need to draft defenders. Look at Pittsburgh. As much as everyone on here despises them, they have a fantastic pipeline of defenders. Despres, Harrington, Maatta, Pouliot, Morrow and Dumoulin is a disgustingly rich pipeline they have. The Flyers need that.

Depending on where the Flyers finish, they're going to have a very nice group of defenders to choose from - Nurse, Pullock, Morrissey, Zadorov, and Ristolainen should be the defenders they're looking at. No wingers, no centers. They need defenders. The five of those guys are lead defenders that the Flyers can use to build the defense around. You can't go wrong with any of those guys. The defensive depth in this year's draft is one of the highest in quite some time, so I don't see any problems with also landing a top defender in the 2nd round as well. Robert Hagg, Mirco Muller, Ian McCoshen, Matt Murphy and Tom Vanelli can all be had in the 2nd. Two premium defenders should be a must for the Flyers this draft.

Finally, it's time for a new head coach and a new system. I have no problem with playing an offensive system, but I'm tired of the lack of defensive discipline this club shows. I'm also tired of the way he rewards ice time to players. Schenn and Couturier with less ice time than Briere? Really? I watched Giroux's interview and it's clear - Laviolette has lost the locker room. It's got to be toxic in there right now.

As for Holmgren, he's got to be on a tight leash. I know Clarke is a confidant, but I'm wondering if Snider will fire Holmgren and have Clarke run the show temporarily while they look for someone out the organization who can bring a fresh approach. I know some will say "retread", but to me, Hextall in LA would be the guy I'd want them to bring in and be the GM.

Anyways, enough of my rant. Tonight was the last straw. I hate the word "tank", but play out the season, rebuild in the off season and be ready for 2013 - 2014.
This about sums up my thoughts nicely. Well said, BCF16!

However, I would say that no one on the team is untouchable for the right price.

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Old
03-08-2013, 09:30 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Trade Briere, trade Coburn for 1sts each.

Trade Meszaros, Talbot, and fedotenko for the best picks you can get for them.

Buy out bryzgalov

Waive Gervais

Draft 2 defensemen and a winger in the 1st round. (I like Nurse, Pulock and Mantha)

Sign Corey Perry, Ladislav Smid and either Jimmy Howard if you can get him or Anton Khudobin.

Perry - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - Schenn - Simmonds
Gagne - Couturier - Read
Rinaldo - Laughton - ????

Timonen - Schenn
Grossmann - Smid
???? - ????

Howard
????
Gervais is an adequate #6#/7 signed to a reasonable contract - no need to chase him out of town.
Talbot is a role player that we would probably miss a lot on the PK. His overall play has dropped this year but he is not grossly overpaid.

Apart from that you made some reasonable proposals.

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03-08-2013, 09:37 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Gervais is an adequate #6#/7 signed to a reasonable contract - no need to chase him out of town.
Talbot is a role player that we would probably miss a lot on the PK. His overall play has dropped this year but he is not grossly overpaid.

Apart from that you made some reasonable proposals.
I don't understand why people are so eager to ship out Gervais and Talbot. So Talbot hasn't mimicked last year, he isn't supposed to! He's a great bottom 6 guy who plays a responsible game and PKs very well.

Gervais has honestly been better than I expected. I thought he'd play maybe 8-10 games all season, he's been a pretty dependable bottom pairing guy.

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Old
03-08-2013, 09:39 AM
  #439
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I don't understand why people are so eager to ship out Gervais and Talbot. So Talbot hasn't mimicked last year, he isn't supposed to! He's a great bottom 6 guy who plays a responsible game and PKs very well.

Gervais has honestly been better than I expected. I thought he'd play maybe 8-10 games all season, he's been a pretty dependable bottom pairing guy.
I mean if a team comes and knocks our socks off with an offer for him I'll move Talbot. But I have no problem keeping him for next year.

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03-08-2013, 09:40 AM
  #440
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I mean if a team comes and knocks our socks off with an offer for him I'll move Talbot. But I have no problem keeping him for next year.
Obviously haha, I'm referring to some people who are eagerly trying to move him for a roll of tape and some bubble gum.

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03-08-2013, 09:50 AM
  #441
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
This team is a mess right now. There is a good foundation in place though. When you consider there's Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, B. Schenn, Couturier, Grossmann, L.Schenn in place, that's not a bad foundation to build around. Add in Laughton, Cousins, Stolarz and Gostisbehere and there's a real solid foundation in place. With that being said, there's work left to do.

I'm hoping Holmgren goes nuts and decides to unload everyone but those guys listed above. After tonight's debacle, Bryzgalov can no longer be relied upon or defended with regards to his play. Yes, the mess of a defensive system the Flyers use certainly doesn't help, but he's being paid a lot of money to rise to the occasion and he's failed to do so. He needs to be bought out in the off season. Sign a guy like Jimmy Howard to be the top guy and sign Anton Khudobin to be the back up. That allows Stolarz the time he needs to develop.

As for the defense, the Flyers desperately need to draft defenders. Look at Pittsburgh. As much as everyone on here despises them, they have a fantastic pipeline of defenders. Despres, Harrington, Maatta, Pouliot, Morrow and Dumoulin is a disgustingly rich pipeline they have. The Flyers need that.

Depending on where the Flyers finish, they're going to have a very nice group of defenders to choose from - Nurse, Pullock, Morrissey, Zadorov, and Ristolainen should be the defenders they're looking at. No wingers, no centers. They need defenders. The five of those guys are lead defenders that the Flyers can use to build the defense around. You can't go wrong with any of those guys. The defensive depth in this year's draft is one of the highest in quite some time, so I don't see any problems with also landing a top defender in the 2nd round as well. Robert Hagg, Mirco Muller, Ian McCoshen, Matt Murphy and Tom Vanelli can all be had in the 2nd. Two premium defenders should be a must for the Flyers this draft.

Finally, it's time for a new head coach and a new system. I have no problem with playing an offensive system, but I'm tired of the lack of defensive discipline this club shows. I'm also tired of the way he rewards ice time to players. Schenn and Couturier with less ice time than Briere? Really? I watched Giroux's interview and it's clear - Laviolette has lost the locker room. It's got to be toxic in there right now.

As for Holmgren, he's got to be on a tight leash. I know Clarke is a confidant, but I'm wondering if Snider will fire Holmgren and have Clarke run the show temporarily while they look for someone out the organization who can bring a fresh approach. I know some will say "retread", but to me, Hextall in LA would be the guy I'd want them to bring in and be the GM.

Anyways, enough of my rant. Tonight was the last straw. I hate the word "tank", but play out the season, rebuild in the off season and be ready for 2013 - 2014.
This was the worst for me. Briere was -3 in 10 minutes of ice time. So what does he do? Reward him with 7 minutes in the 3rd!!!! STUPID!! How about Rinaldo. Once Pitt had the momentum, how about tapping that lil frigger on the shoulder and let him get the Gordie Howe hat trick and try and change the tide back!

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03-08-2013, 09:53 AM
  #442
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He's pretty old. He might not have a choice.
But he does. He can go back to Europe, start, and make a lot more money than taking a backup job in the NHL.

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03-08-2013, 09:57 AM
  #443
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I mean if a team comes and knocks our socks off with an offer for him I'll move Talbot. But I have no problem keeping him for next year.
talbot is pretty valuable at his cap hit. THe guy can be plugged into a variety of situations and do well. He is a less physical more skilled cheaper brandon prust.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:43 PM
  #444
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This team needs Seth Jones.

Sean Couturier, Andrej Meszaros and our 1st to whoever has a top 2 pick for us to get Jones.

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03-09-2013, 01:13 AM
  #445
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This team needs Seth Jones.

Sean Couturier, Andrej Meszaros and our 1st to whoever has a top 2 pick for us to get Jones.
Meszaros should definitely put us over the top in getting the #1 pick.

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03-09-2013, 07:30 AM
  #446
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Right now IMO there are 3 teams that are definitely worst than the Flyers: Columbus, Florida, and Edmonton. So the Flyers are could finish with #4 pick. If Columbus gets the 1st overall, and with their new GM being from Finland, they would probably not have interest in Jones due to their defensive depth but could Barkov. The Flyers at that point could probably trade up from 4 together him, but it would cost a core player like Couturier to do so. Is that worth it for Jones? And would the Flyers be better off just taking Barkov or even Nurse at that point? All speculation but interesting.

This draft has a definitely top 4 in Drouin, Makinnon, Barkov, and Jones. I do not see any team trading complete out of one of those spots. Nichushkin could push in there though and make it a set top 5. So to get Jones the Flyers would probably have to draft in the Top 5 picks at the very least to have a shot at trading for Jones IMO.

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03-09-2013, 08:23 AM
  #447
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That first overall pick would cost us dearly

We are talking 2-3 1sts (spanned over a few years), Probably Couturier, and either a roster D or prospect

Seth Jones is essentially the next Pronger, and teams know this, if a 36 year old pronger cost ya 3-4 firsts, essentially your looking at a similar value

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03-09-2013, 08:27 AM
  #448
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Rememeber guys when Brian Burke was on trying to acquire the Sedin twins he gave up a pair of 3rd rounders to move from 4th overall to 1st. I think we are over valuing the pick just a little here.

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03-09-2013, 08:51 AM
  #449
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Rememeber guys when Brian Burke was on trying to acquire the Sedin twins he gave up a pair of 3rd rounders to move from 4th overall to 1st. I think we are over valuing the pick just a little here.
I think it depends in the year. Last season the rumors were that the isles offered CLB their whole draft (every pick) to move up from 4th to 1st.

But i agree overall. You would think jones has played in the nhl already and is a top 5 defender.

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03-09-2013, 08:54 AM
  #450
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Not to nitpick, even though I am , but CLB had the 2nd overall last draft.

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