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03-08-2013, 08:04 AM
  #451
drewski1988
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Are you kidding me? Gardiner lead all Leafs defencemen in takeaways last season (tied - Gunnarsson). The puck was ALWAYS on his stick. He's smart with his stick, much like Lidstrom was, without having to be physical.

And no, I'm not saying he's the next Lidstrom, nor am I saying he's anywhere near Lidstrom. I'm just saying that there's more than one way to get the puck away from an opponent. You don't need to be a bruiser.

His shiftiness and mobility being a major asset, when he got the puck he was often able to skate the puck out of the Leafs zone himself. He also entered the offensive zone with the puck with ease, allowing the Leafs to retain possession and set up shop, most notably on powerplays. He possesses a lot of the same abilities as Erik Karlsson does, without the point-per-game offensive ability obviously.



It has been well-established that Gunnarsson is playing through an injury. I prefer to evaluate him based on what he has shown us over the last 3 years (stability, a defensively-aware counterpart to Phaneuf) than over the last 6 weeks. Leafs Nation is far too "what-have-you-done-for-me-lately" for my liking, and this is Exhibit A. You don't throw away a proven, dependable, veteran NHL defenceman on a whim like that. That's silliness.

The issue with Kostka isn't that he's "just an AHLer", it's that we have a better, more proven option on the farm who is being unfairly held back because of contract status.

Neither of you have made a compelling case for Kostka over Gardiner.
I'd take Holzer out of the lineup before Kostka or Gunnar. Holzer has been brutal the last few games and it's really starting to wear on Phaneuf. Phaneuf looks tired, and is giving way more pucks than usual due to trying to over compensate for his lackluster partner IMO.

I'd move Gunnar back up with Phaneuf and move Phaneuf to the right side where he's more comfortable. Holzer comes out of the lineup, Gardiner plays with Kostka which is a pairing that looked great with the Marlies earlier this year. Then our third pairing stays Fraser/Franson, as I think that pairing has been our most consistent all year.

Gunnar/Phaneuf have had success in the past, no reason to think they won't now, even taking Gunnar's clear health status into account.

My main point: Gardiner has to be in this lineup. AINEC.

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03-08-2013, 08:04 AM
  #452
Joey Hoser
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The concussion/recovery excuse has passed it's expiry date. Guy has been playing for like a month in the AHL. That's not why he's down there right now.

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03-08-2013, 08:07 AM
  #453
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Something has to give on the roster. We are getting killed on the forecheck. The D has been hesitant on the puck and the forwards often out of position in their own end like they are not sure where to be.

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03-08-2013, 08:08 AM
  #454
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Mike Kostka leads the team in blocked shots..............

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03-08-2013, 08:12 AM
  #455
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I don't think we don't know why he isn't in the NHL. As far as I know, Nonis hasn't publicly stated the reasons so its all just speculation.

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03-08-2013, 08:19 AM
  #456
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Dreger on 1050 this morning said that Gardiner needs to be on the team, and that it behooves him as to why hes not. Basically said that Holzer needs to be demoted and Gardiner called up. Never once indicated that Carlyle doesnt like him.

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03-08-2013, 08:23 AM
  #457
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Originally Posted by TmlHockeyFan View Post
Mike Kostka leads the team in blocked shots..............
Future hall of famer.

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03-08-2013, 08:38 AM
  #458
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This year is and was always going to be a building year for the Leafs. Once Burke was axed the heat was off to make the playoffs, and the Leafs decided to see what they have in the system and sell off the excess at the trade deadline. The Leafs are holding down a playoff spot just fine with the current roster and there is no need to rush Gardiner or lose an asset for nothing just to bring Gardiner up. Once the trade deadline has passed and one or two of the Leafs defenseman are moved for picks or an upgrade somewhere else, then Gardiner will be back on the Leafs. If they cant move anybody at the deadline for some reason then someone will be waived to make room for him. IMO the only way he's not back with the Leafs after the deadline is if he gets hurt again or hes traded in a blockbuster for a proven top dman or a potential number 1 center. Good things come to those with patience, just look at Kadri. It is by no means hurting Gardiners development to play on the farm an excell for a few more weeks while the Leafs showcase their players they would like to trade.

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03-08-2013, 08:49 AM
  #459
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I can't comprehend how Kostka is on the Leafs roster and Gardiner is not. It's actually mind blowing. Is this real life?

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03-08-2013, 08:52 AM
  #460
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This year is and was always going to be a building year for the Leafs. Once Burke was axed the heat was off to make the playoffs, and the Leafs decided to see what they have in the system and sell off the excess at the trade deadline. The Leafs are holding down a playoff spot just fine with the current roster and there is no need to rush Gardiner or lose an asset for nothing just to bring Gardiner up. Once the trade deadline has passed and one or two of the Leafs defenseman are moved for picks or an upgrade somewhere else, then Gardiner will be back on the Leafs. If they cant move anybody at the deadline for some reason then someone will be waived to make room for him. IMO the only way he's not back with the Leafs after the deadline is if he gets hurt again or hes traded in a blockbuster for a proven top dman or a potential number 1 center. Good things come to those with patience, just look at Kadri. It is by no means hurting Gardiners development to play on the farm an excell for a few more weeks while the Leafs showcase their players they would like to trade.
I recall reading that Holzer is the only dman that wouldn't have to go through waivers to be sent down. Waiver system confuses me so I can't be sure how reliable that information is. But if that's the case, then either Carlyle is satisifed with Holzer's play and doesn't want to send him down or he doesn't think Gardiner is ready, otherwise, you could just do a one for one swap between the two.

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03-08-2013, 08:54 AM
  #461
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My thoughts on this are Nonis is trying to maximize his assets. If he can get a team to take Kostka or Holzer for something more than a third then he is getting something for them. If he sends them down to the "A" then he gets nothing. If the Leafs are still holding on to where they are now until the trade deadline i think Gardiner will stay down until a one or two are traded.

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03-08-2013, 08:57 AM
  #462
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Gardiner would have to replace Phaneuf, Fraser or Gunnarsson based on Caryle's preference to have D-men on their strong side.

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03-08-2013, 08:58 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
I can't comprehend how Kostka is on the Leafs roster and Gardiner is not. It's actually mind blowing. Is this real life?
It is real life. My guess is there is interest from teams for Kostka and the Leafs are showcasing him. If Nonis can get a 2nd or a 3rd round pick (in a deep draft) for Kostka, then call up Gardiner, then I'd say the Leafs are doing the right thing. IMO Koska is playing in the spot in the lineup where Gardiner will slide in.

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03-08-2013, 09:01 AM
  #464
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He's stirring the pot like any TO media flunky. Dreger pulled this out of his ass and now it will be the talk of the week. Had the leafs won last night he would have been quiet.

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03-08-2013, 09:08 AM
  #465
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
I recall reading that Holzer is the only dman that wouldn't have to go through waivers to be sent down. Waiver system confuses me so I can't be sure how reliable that information is. But if that's the case, then either Carlyle is satisifed with Holzer's play and doesn't want to send him down or he doesn't think Gardiner is ready, otherwise, you could just do a one for one swap between the two.
If the Leafs flipped Gardiner for Holzer right now their defense would be small and soft IMO. I don't see Carlyle wanting to hang Gardiner out to dry and play him with Phaneuf and all his bonehead mistakes either. If they play Gunnarsson with Dion and Gardiner with Kostka then Kostka and Gardiner would get eaten alive. I'm not saying I'm right, this is just how i see it.

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03-08-2013, 09:08 AM
  #466
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Originally Posted by Deebo View Post
Gardiner would have to replace Phaneuf, Fraser or Gunnarsson based on Caryle's preference to have D-men on their strong side.
True. That's why Holzer is on the top unit.

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03-08-2013, 09:15 AM
  #467
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
I recall reading that Holzer is the only dman that wouldn't have to go through waivers to be sent down. Waiver system confuses me so I can't be sure how reliable that information is. But if that's the case, then either Carlyle is satisifed with Holzer's play and doesn't want to send him down or he doesn't think Gardiner is ready, otherwise, you could just do a one for one swap between the two.
Carlyle clearly likes Holzer and his big body frame and is trying to turn him into a more physical dman. He is not getting moved short of a trade. Did you see that hip check he had on Krecji? I felt it at my desk while studying.

Gardiner is down there to improve, hell be back up in due time.

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03-08-2013, 09:21 AM
  #468
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This is an interesting discussion and I'm a bit torn on it.

I really think that Gardiner makes your team better when he's in the lineup. So the one side of me is saying that you need to find him a spot to play.

On the other hand, Carlyle might be thinking that he doesn't quite fit the system and thinks that what he has is working. And you don't want to bring Gardiner up to play 3rd dman pairing minutes. That's the biggest thing for me in this scenario. But really, its working for Kadri in "sheltered" minutes, so why wouldn't it work for him?

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03-08-2013, 09:27 AM
  #469
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I think its safe to say the Carlyle does not like Liles nor Komisarek as he chooses to make them healthy scratches and decides not to play them.

Gardiner was sent to the AHL to recover from a previous injury and regain his form.. His return to the NHL is not as much about Carlyle's likes/wants as it is about numbers and roster spots and others in the way to his return. IMO

No doubt Nonis is attempting to unload some players to make room for him on the NHL team. When he returns to the NHL I'm sure Randy will enjoy having him if he can perform as he did in the past.

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03-08-2013, 09:29 AM
  #470
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
I think its safe to say the Carlyle does not like Liles nor Komisarek as he chooses to make them healthy scratches and decides not to play them.

Gardiner was sent to the AHL to recover from a previous injury and regain his form.. His return to the NHL is not as much about Carlyle's likes/wants as it is about numbers and roster spots and others in the way to his return. IMO

No doubt Nonis is attempting to unload some players to make room for him on the NHL team. When he returns to the NHL I'm sure Randy will enjoy having him if he can perform as he did in the past.
This sums it up perfectly. Good post.

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03-08-2013, 09:30 AM
  #471
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I hope this isn't true, otherwise its complete *********

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03-08-2013, 09:34 AM
  #472
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I vaguely recall a quote from him in a recent media interview where he stated he wants to be 100% certain what they have in a prospect. He used an example of how Montreal succesfully used to scount their own players in the past. I think he's either making sure of what he has before the trade deadline by giving Holzer and Kostka a fair shot to succeed.

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03-08-2013, 09:38 AM
  #473
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If this is true Carlyle is an idiot

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03-08-2013, 09:43 AM
  #474
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He's stirring the pot like any TO media flunky. Dreger pulled this out of his ass and now it will be the talk of the week. Had the leafs won last night he would have been quiet.
While I agree he's stirring the pot and an idiot, I believe this was said before our game last night.


I find it hard to believe Carlyle isn't a fan of our top-2 defenseman in the organization.

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03-08-2013, 09:45 AM
  #475
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I hope this isn't true, otherwise its complete *********
Why is it complete ******* as you say? The Leafs are winning, and in a playoff spot. So whats the rush?

The cap is going down this summer and teams will be looking to shed salary. Given the Leafs cap situation, having a pile of draft picks and prospects to use as currency for trades is going to be huge, especially if good players are going to be available.

The cap is going down apoprox. $6 million. Teams can't just dump their 6 crappiest guys to get under the cap as they won't be able fill out their rosters, so IMO good players will be available. Not all teams can afford to just buy players out and why would they if they can get picks or prospects for them?


Keeping Gardiner on the Marlies while the Leafs showcase their d-men so they can sell them at the deadline is a good long term strategy for the Leafs. Now it's up to Nonis to make all this worth while and make a few solid trades.

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