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Old
03-08-2013, 09:29 AM
  #26
Sabresfansince1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
If you're moving talented guys in their prime, you're going to get back good, young players and draft picks that could turn into good, young players.
You're not going to get the same talent level in a younger body, or that team wouldn't be trading that player to begin with. You'll get great draft picks, which are a crap shoot. I'm not totally opposed to draft picks depending on the deal and the status of other upgrades, but it better be multiple top draft picks that put Buffalo in as good a position as possible to pick up legit talent, and not crap out on a bust. 1st rd picks in the 10-15 range are NOT going to adequately replace Vanek, Pominville, or Miller.

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03-08-2013, 09:43 AM
  #27
BowieSabresFan
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Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
If you're moving talented guys in their prime, you're going to get back good, young players and draft picks that could turn into good, young players.

I think the most important word in your statement is "could." Don't change, just to change. Change if it makes the team better.

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Old
03-08-2013, 10:32 AM
  #28
RazielMoshman
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Funny that you mention the Leafs, because they are a poster boy that advocates blowing it up rather than riding it out and trying to patch holes with crappy players.
They either traded their first round pick or finished outside of the area in which elite talents are readily available.

I don't know if there's anything they could have done, contract-wise, to prevent him from being partially lobotomized after his rookie season.
I know, but if the Leafs fielded a team of mascots they'd sell out that arena, we don't have that privilege. If we don't turn it around soon people will stop paying money to support this team.

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03-08-2013, 10:37 AM
  #29
AirBriere48
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Originally Posted by RazielMoshman View Post
I know, but if the Leafs fielded a team of mascots they'd sell out that arena, we don't have that privilege. If we don't turn it around soon people will stop paying money to support this team.
What makes you think that? This team hasn't won a playoff series in 6 years and still plays before sell-out crowds nightly.

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03-08-2013, 10:50 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
You're not going to get the same talent level in a younger body, or that team wouldn't be trading that player to begin with. You'll get great draft picks, which are a crap shoot. I'm not totally opposed to draft picks depending on the deal and the status of other upgrades, but it better be multiple top draft picks that put Buffalo in as good a position as possible to pick up legit talent, and not crap out on a bust. 1st rd picks in the 10-15 range are NOT going to adequately replace Vanek, Pominville, or Miller.
Joe nuendyke (sp?) for iginla disagrees. That is the deal I am looking for proven performer today for hot shot tomorrow. Teams sometimes give up tomorrow for today. Dallas would not have won the cup without joe but would have been a better tean in the 2000's with iginla. Personaly, I would rather have the cup along with bad years than neverending middle of the road.

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03-08-2013, 10:55 AM
  #31
1972
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Originally Posted by kenfury View Post
Joe nuendyke (sp?) for iginla disagrees. That is the deal I am looking for proven performer today for hot shot tomorrow. Teams sometimes give up tomorrow for today. Dallas would not have won the cup without joe but would have been a better tean in the 2000's with iginla. Personaly, I would rather have the cup along with bad years than neverending middle of the road.
Your arguement is a trade that happened almost 2 decades ago lol

The best example recently would be Voracek, Couturier and Cousins for Carter, worked out great for Philly but a lot of the time it doesnt..

Richards for Jokinen and Smith, didnt work out..

More often then not the team that wins the trade gets the best player.


Last edited by 1972: 03-08-2013 at 11:00 AM.
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Old
03-08-2013, 11:03 AM
  #32
jfb392
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Originally Posted by RazielMoshman View Post
I know, but if the Leafs fielded a team of mascots they'd sell out that arena, we don't have that privilege. If we don't turn it around soon people will stop paying money to support this team.
As already mentioned, this team hasn't even won a playoff series in six years and plenty of people still support them.

Pegula bought this team knowing full well there was barely any money to be made in a market that has very little disposable income.
I don't see why he'd quickly ditch it.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:12 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenfury View Post
Joe nuendyke (sp?) for iginla disagrees.
And you do recall that Iginla's stock had dropped so far that Calgary was once talking to Buffalo about swapping out Iginla for a holding-out Mike Peca, right?


Iginla, in his formative years, was no sure thing. He wasn't close to Nieuwendyk. He was a load of potential, nothing more.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:21 AM
  #34
Zman5778
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Guys I'd certainly keep to build around:
Hodgson
Grigorenko
Myers
Ott
Ehrhoff

Guy I'd keep, just because the return isn't likely to be worth it:
Vanek

Guys I'd keep, just because the return isn't likely to be worth it (unless part of a package):
Pysyk
McCabe
McNabb
Armia
Girgensons
Sekera
Foligno

Guys I'd be willing to trade if the return is right:
Miller
Ennis

Guys I'm completely torn on:
Pominville
Kaleta

Guys that I don't see as having a future with the Sabres:
Stafford
Leino
Enroth
Leopold
Regehr
Hecht



Otherwise, everyone else strikes me as interchangeable depth or prospects.

Not a lot of "gotta keep" guys in the system right now, in my opinion.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:21 AM
  #35
RazielMoshman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
As already mentioned, this team hasn't even won a playoff series in six years and plenty of people still support them.

Pegula bought this team knowing full well there was barely any money to be made in a market that has very little disposable income.
I don't see why he'd quickly ditch it.
Because a full blown rebuild would send the message that we aren't going to get to the playoffs for 4-5 years, without any guarantee of serious success for probably the best part of the decade. I just don't think we could survive that, not after everything thats happened since the millennium. Tis just my opinion.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:35 AM
  #36
Squantosawuss
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Stafford <

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:23 PM
  #37
Djp
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Guys I'd certainly keep to build around:
Hodgson
Grigorenko
Myers
Ott
Ehrhoff
Armia
Foligno

Try to keep--but would trade if it looks like a deal cant get done:
Vanek
Ennis
Miller

1-2 yr with club if not dealt:
Regehr

Players likely dealt by 2014 tradeing deadline:
Pominville
Stafford
Adam


Potential contract mulligans:
Stafford summer 2013
Leino summer 2014

Moveable players:
Pysyk
McCabe
McNabb
Girgensons
Sekera


Guys not around next year:
Leopold
Hecht


there is talent on this club and in the system.

I dont see a full gut/rebuild

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:38 PM
  #38
couture23
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If this team blew it up I would be very upset. Just need a smart GM.

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:45 PM
  #39
McTankel
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True rebuilds don't really work all the time. IE (Oilers, NYI, Panthers, Jackets)..."Blowing Up" this team would result in a 3-5 year rebuild where we don't make the playoffs which would end up being 5-7 years without playoffs (IE. Leafs) Do we really want that? There is still no guarentee we are even contenders at that point. There is simply to much parity in hockey to be worried about "blowing our team up".

Put together the best possible roster each year, draft the best possible player with each pick, pick the most proven GM/Coach Combo you can get, make trades that will improve your team, and pick up FA's that will make you a contender.. IMO that is really all you can do. I don't really believe in the "Blow Up" model. However, I do want a top 6 pick this year, since it will be the only reward from having to watch this team this season.

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03-08-2013, 01:34 PM
  #40
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Guys who I think have a place on this team for the new GM:
Vanek
Grigorenko
Hodgson
Myers
Ehroff
Ennis
Pominville
Miller
Foligno

Guys Who I think new GM MIGHT keep
Leino
Ott
Sekera
Stafford
Kaleta
Pardy

Guys I think new GM would rather cut ties with
Leopold
Regehr
Enroth
Scott
Weber
Adam
Hecht

We basically would be looking at 6-11 spots open to tweak our roster for the new GM to come in and make HIS team. I don't think that is that bad of a start but obviously what he does with it could make this team a contender or continue on the road to mediocrity.

We could be looking at:

Two Top 6 Forwards(Top 6 Center with Two-way capabilites)
4 Bottom 6 Forwards (continue Grooming Grigorenko with increased playing situations)
Two Top 4 Defenseman(Either as a pair, or to play with Myers or Ehroff)
3rd Pairing Defensemen
Backup Goaltender

Thats a lot to cover for a new GM and it is very hard to know if the answer to some of these holes are already on the team or not, looking at our team, we are further away from being a contender than what some people thought, and apparently what Darcy thought. Watching some our prospects I feel, most if not all are still at least one year away from making an impact where some teams seem to have that prospect who is ready to step in. Armia is our most talented prospect not on the Sabres roster, and I still think he is one year of AHL play away from coming up.

What I see right Now on this team:

Vanek-Hodgson-XXX
Ennis-XXX-Pominville
Foligno-Grigorenko-XXX
XXX-XXX-XXX

XXX-XXX
Ehroff-Myers
XXX-XXX

Miller
XXX

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Old
03-08-2013, 01:45 PM
  #41
Squantosawuss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
As already mentioned, this team hasn't even won a playoff series in six years and plenty of people still support them.

Pegula bought this team knowing full well there was barely any money to be made in a market that has very little disposable income.
I don't see why he'd quickly ditch it.
Somehow though, they manage to come up with enough disposable income to spend 100-200+ dollars per ticket (plus concessions) to watch an almost last place team.

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Old
03-08-2013, 02:19 PM
  #42
Reacher Gilt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
"Blowing Up" this team would result in a 3-5 year rebuild where we don't make the playoffs
Are we any faster if we don't? The salary structure of this team is to high for the performance, we won't have much room next year and after that Vanek will command something like Getzlaf just got.

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Old
03-08-2013, 02:25 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by tmack224 View Post
I really think we are not that far off but need to move out the big guys. Go with youth, Pommer, Vanek, Miller, and Stafford need to go. Miller is getting older and isnt a goalie for a rebuild. Do a real rebuild please.

At the Deadline:

Pomminville to Ottawa for Ben Bishop, Stefan Noesen, and a 1st.
Vanek to St. Louis for Jaden Schwartz, D'Agostini, and a 1st
Miller to San Jose for Niemi, Hertl, and a 2nd
Stafford to anyone for picks or prospects

Let Niemi, Bishop, and Enroth fight for the starting spot. This would make us a young rebuilding team with a lot of picks and money going into the offseason.
Those proposals are terrible. St Louis wants Vanek? Tarasenko+. Top 10 goal scorers are extremely valuable. I only move Vanek for a legit franchise dman and no less.

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03-08-2013, 02:33 PM
  #44
Reacher Gilt
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Those proposals are terrible. St Louis wants Vanek? Tarasenko+. Top 10 goal scorers are extremely valuable. I only move Vanek for a legit franchise dman and no less.
Schwartz is a very nice prospect too. But St. Louis can't add that contract anyways.

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Old
03-08-2013, 03:04 PM
  #45
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Keep Kaleta

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Old
03-08-2013, 06:03 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Pretty sure the process is already on. Start with the coach. At trade deadline, many UFAs are gone if anything can be returned for them. Possibly a veteran like Stafford will be traded. You have guys like Porter and Flynn playing while Hecht is sitting. You can't do everything at once, but they have started IMO.
I don't understand how more people don't see that this team is already going through a rebuild. Our #1, 2, and 3 centers are 23, 23, and 18. Our supposed #1 defenseman is 23. Our opening day #2 LW was 21. We traded an established center last year for a #1 pick at the deadline. I expect players like Stafford, Leopold, and Regher to be decent bets to be heading elsewhere at this year's deadline. It's possible our top pairing in Rochester can be a decent 2nd pairing here in 2-3 years. Armia's off people's radar's because he plays abroad, but he'll likely be on the roster in a year or two as well. Right now we're taking a look at guys like Flynn, Porter, and Brennan to see if they have something to offer for the future (Porter's the old man of that bunch at 26) - and I suspect that Leino will have to have a much better year than last to avoid a buyout.

This team is rebuilding. They will likely still will be rebuilding next year, and I think a playoff spot for next year's version will also be a long shot no matter who is behind the bench - particularly if we jettison guys like Staff and Leopold and replace them with more youth.

On the topic of Myers....I know that +/- isn't the best start, but after bottoming out at -9, Myers has actually been a +3 post benching and he's played more than 20 minutes in all but one game of Rolston's tenure. I think his play has been improved...not necessarily to where we want it, but certainly improved since the benching.

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Old
03-08-2013, 06:39 PM
  #47
Zman5778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
I think his play has been improved...not necessarily to where we want it, but certainly improved since the benching.
More to the point, I think his play has improved since he's been paired with Ehrhoff.

I think it's entirely plausible that we go into next year with the following pairings:

Myers-Ehrhoff (minutes eating first pairing)
Sekera-Weber (they play well together, and I think Weber can handle the 2nd pairing minutes)
Pysyk-McNabb (young, developing, sheltered 3rd pair)
D

That 7th Dman could either be a FA Dman to pair with Sekera and then Weber is the 7th guy or we re-up Sulzer or go find another 7th guy.

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Old
03-08-2013, 07:25 PM
  #48
Jame
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Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
I don't understand how more people don't see that this team is already going through a rebuild. Our #1, 2, and 3 centers are 23, 23, and 18. Our supposed #1 defenseman is 23. Our opening day #2 LW was 21. We traded an established center last year for a #1 pick at the deadline. I expect players like Stafford, Leopold, and Regher to be decent bets to be heading elsewhere at this year's deadline. It's possible our top pairing in Rochester can be a decent 2nd pairing here in 2-3 years. Armia's off people's radar's because he plays abroad, but he'll likely be on the roster in a year or two as well. Right now we're taking a look at guys like Flynn, Porter, and Brennan to see if they have something to offer for the future (Porter's the old man of that bunch at 26) - and I suspect that Leino will have to have a much better year than last to avoid a buyout.

This team is rebuilding. They will likely still will be rebuilding next year, and I think a playoff spot for next year's version will also be a long shot no matter who is behind the bench - particularly if we jettison guys like Staff and Leopold and replace them with more youth.

On the topic of Myers....I know that +/- isn't the best start, but after bottoming out at -9, Myers has actually been a +3 post benching and he's played more than 20 minutes in all but one game of Rolston's tenure. I think his play has been improved...not necessarily to where we want it, but certainly improved since the benching.
I completely agree. We are already in rebuild, so moves should be made in support of that rebuild.

it started last year... with a little bit of emphasis on the rebuild, it could be very quick (1-2 more seasons)

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Old
03-08-2013, 09:01 PM
  #49
Sabresfansince1980
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Anyone think that in the summer of 2015 Nick Foligno and/or Pat Kane would give Buffalo a serious consideration when they hit UFA status? To dream a little...

Vanek-Hodgson-Pominville
Ennis-Grigorenko-Kane
Foligno-Catenacci/Girgensons-Armia/Tropp
Foligno-Girgensons/Flynn/Porter-Tropp/Kaleta

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03-08-2013, 09:34 PM
  #50
is the answer jesus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
Anyone think that in the summer of 2015 Nick Foligno and/or Pat Kane would give Buffalo a serious consideration when they hit UFA status? To dream a little...

Vanek-Hodgson-Pominville
Ennis-Grigorenko-Kane
Foligno-Catenacci/Girgensons-Armia/Tropp
Foligno-Girgensons/Flynn/Porter-Tropp/Kaleta
I think both would be interested in playing here if the money was right and if they actually hit UFA. I doubt Kane ever gets there though, Foligno could be a possiblilty. Keeping Vanek and Pominville in the fold while signing Kane and Foligno doesn't seem like it would work with the cap either.

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