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Trade Kessel?

View Poll Results: Should Phil Kessel be traded?
Yes 194 51.60%
No 182 48.40%
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Old
03-08-2013, 11:14 AM
  #476
LeafsJaysRaptors
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Originally Posted by TonsofPuppies View Post
And I say again...
I'm not even disagreeing with the idea that if Kessel is your best player, you're not going to get far in the playoffs. I'm not even convinced Kessel is our best player.. he wouldn't get my vote for sure. But he's not claiming to be.. he's doing what he does, he is getting points. He is unbelievably soft.. which is not a good attribute for an NHL player to have, but due to our increased team toughness, this becomes tolerable. Kessel is not a heart and soul player, he's not a Toews or a Hartnell in that sense, and he does shrink against the Bruins.. but really, compared to the Leafs, there were no "bad" teams in Kessel's tenure, so "padding his stats" with the weaker teams is not accurate. I'm not one to throw out crazy what-if scenerios, but if the Leafs were to have a Getzlaf as a top line centre, Kessel would be much more comfortable because he's simply not what people are expecting him to be, and this is no fault of his.

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03-08-2013, 11:15 AM
  #477
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So you want Kessel to take hits and if he gets hurt (likely a concussion from a hit) You are completely fine with that?

You want Kessel to be out possibly long-term? Just so you can say he took a hit?

You want your best player to willingly get hit all the time?

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03-08-2013, 11:18 AM
  #478
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I never got how Kessel isnt a fit for this system but Perry is.. Perry has like 14 or 18 hits, Kessel has 7, Perry has like 14 blocked shots, Kessel has 12..

Perrys goals (on a better team) 32-27-50-37
Kessels goals (on a bottom feeder) 36 (boston)-30-32-37

so with the exception of 1 great yr, Kessel has tied or more goals than Perry. Also Kessel is 2 yrs younger (remember when fans wanted prospects?)

So then we come down to the tiebreaker to fans on this forum

Kessel = American
Perry = Canadian

oops, thats why

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03-08-2013, 11:19 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by MrLegend28 View Post
I never got how Kessel isnt a fit for this system but Perry is.. Perry has like 14 or 18 hits, Kessel has 7, Perry has like 14 blocked shots, Kessel has 12..

Perrys goals (on a better team) 32-27-50-37
Kessels goals (on a bottom feeder) 36 (boston)-30-32-37

so with the exception of 1 great yr, Kessel has tied or more goals than Perry. Also Kessel is 2 yrs younger (remember when fans wanted prospects?)

So then we come down to the tiebreaker to fans on this forum

Kessel = American
Perry = Canadian

oops, thats why
I think Kadri is actually very comparable to Perry (and Perry is my favourite player in the entire NHL) so who knows, we could have both...

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:20 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
So you want Kessel to take hits and if he gets hurt (likely a concussion from a hit) You are completely fine with that?

You want Kessel to be out possibly long-term? Just so you can say he took a hit?

You want your best player to willingly get hit all the time?
It would be a blow to the team if Kessel were to get hurt. Just like it was when we lost Lupul and Frattin to injury. I don't want Kessel to get hurt, but as I stated, injuries are part of the game. Should all of our players avoid all forms of physical contact because they might get hurt? If the idea of physical contact is so frightening to you, then you shouldn't be playing the game of hockey. Should everyone stop driving because there's a chance they might get in an accident?

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03-08-2013, 11:21 AM
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
So you want Kessel to take hits and if he gets hurt (likely a concussion from a hit) You are completely fine with that?

You want Kessel to be out possibly long-term? Just so you can say he took a hit?

You want your best player to willingly get hit all the time?

Actually our expectations for Phil Kessel are extremely low.

All we would like is for him to do what is EXPECTED OF EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN THE NHL

This includes:

Not shying away from contact
Engaging in Puck Battles
Backchecking - not once or twice but every single shift
Proper coverage in his own end (not floating)

He doesn't even have to excel at any of the above mentioned - I would just be happy if he tried doing it on a consistent basis.

Right now he is not scoring - and he's not doing anything that helps the team other than setting up JVR (which Kadri/Grabo were already doing just fine on the first half of his goals)

The bar is set really really low - yet Phil continues to dissappoint.

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03-08-2013, 11:21 AM
  #482
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Whenever I see him play against Boston, I think yes he should be traded. He's just too easily indimidated

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03-08-2013, 11:21 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by MrLegend28 View Post
I never got how Kessel isnt a fit for this system but Perry is.. Perry has like 14 or 18 hits, Kessel has 7, Perry has like 14 blocked shots, Kessel has 12..

Perrys goals (on a better team) 32-27-50-37
Kessels goals (on a bottom feeder) 36 (boston)-30-32-37

so with the exception of 1 great yr, Kessel has tied or more goals than Perry. Also Kessel is 2 yrs younger (remember when fans wanted prospects?)

So then we come down to the tiebreaker to fans on this forum

Kessel = American
Perry = Canadian

oops, thats why
Perry's a former 50 goal scorer who isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas of the ice to score goals. He's also an Olympic gold medalist and a Stanley Cup champion.

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03-08-2013, 11:22 AM
  #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLegend28 View Post
I never got how Kessel isnt a fit for this system but Perry is.. Perry has like 14 or 18 hits, Kessel has 7, Perry has like 14 blocked shots, Kessel has 12..

Perrys goals (on a better team) 32-27-50-37
Kessels goals (on a bottom feeder) 36 (boston)-30-32-37

so with the exception of 1 great yr, Kessel has tied or more goals than Perry. Also Kessel is 2 yrs younger (remember when fans wanted prospects?)

So then we come down to the tiebreaker to fans on this forum

Kessel = American
Perry = Canadian

oops, thats why
I hope you know that Perry is a superstar pest on his team..and the fact that he's not afraid of getting hit OR going to the corners.

Perry is not a defensive liability like Kessel.

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03-08-2013, 11:22 AM
  #485
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If people want to get rid of Kessel because they think we are getting Perry....

If we get Perry, I would like to have Kessel too.

Lupul - Bozak/#1 C - Kessel
JVR - Kadri - Perry

We don't need 1 or the other.... we want BOTH!

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03-08-2013, 11:22 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by The Apologist View Post
I think Kadri is actually very comparable to Perry (and Perry is my favourite player in the entire NHL) so who knows, we could have both...
Kadri totally has an edge to him.. loved when he was jawwin' at the Bruins bench last night. After getting hit by Ference or whoever, of course.. hahah

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03-08-2013, 11:23 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
I hope you know that Perry is a superstar pest on his team..and the fact that he's not afraid of getting hit OR going to the corners.

Perry is not a defensive liability like Kessel.
Yeah.. Perry is definitely on a higher all around level than Kessel, not many people would dispute that.

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03-08-2013, 11:23 AM
  #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
If people want to get rid of Kessel because they think we are getting Perry....

If we get Perry, I would like to have Kessel too.

Lupul - Bozak/#1 C - Kessel
JVR - Kadri - Perry

We don't need 1 or the other.... we want BOTH!
leaf fans deserve neither.

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03-08-2013, 11:27 AM
  #489
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Originally Posted by TonsofPuppies View Post
It would be a blow to the team if Kessel were to get hurt. Just like it was when we lost Lupul and Frattin to injury. I don't want Kessel to get hurt, but as I stated, injuries are part of the game. Should all of our players avoid all forms of physical contact because they might get hurt? If the idea of physical contact is so frightening to you, then you shouldn't be playing the game of hockey. Should everyone stop driving because there's a chance they might get in an accident?
No, but you make it sound like Phil Kessel should look to get hit.

I want Phil Kessel to face as little contact as he can. If he gets hit, he gets hit, and that happens.

Often, Kessel moves the puck and avoids the hit. But people naturally focus on the negative, thus people only focus on Kessel's giveaways and defensive game.

People also tend to want what they don't have. We deal Kessel for Bobby Ryan lets say... People will turn around and start tearing Ryan's game apart, and say they wish we had Kessel's scoring

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03-08-2013, 11:28 AM
  #490
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Originally Posted by LeafsJaysRaptors View Post
Kadri totally has an edge to him.. loved when he was jawwin' at the Bruins bench last night. After getting hit by Ference or whoever, of course.. hahah
Yeah if you actually watch the replay that leafstv does for that part of the game you can see that Kadri actually opens up the chirping. The announcer says "Marchand starts it off", but in the slow-mo you can see all the Bruins open up their mouth in a big "Oh my god I can't believe he said that" way. I would kill to know what he said to them haha.

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03-08-2013, 11:29 AM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
No, but you make it sound like Phil Kessel should look to get hit.

I want Phil Kessel to face as little contact as he can. If he gets hit, he gets hit, and that happens.

Often, Kessel moves the puck and avoids the hit. But people naturally focus on the negative, thus people only focus on Kessel's giveaways and defensive game.

People also tend to want what they don't have. We deal Kessel for Bobby Ryan lets say... People will turn around and start tearing Ryan's game apart, and say they wish we had Kessel's scoring
This is pretty much it.

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03-08-2013, 11:30 AM
  #492
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Originally Posted by TonsofPuppies View Post
Perry's a former 50 goal scorer who isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas of the ice to score goals. He's also an Olympic gold medalist and a Stanley Cup champion.
Jonathan CHeechoo is a 2 time 50 goal scorer.. wonder how he did in Ottawa..

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03-08-2013, 11:30 AM
  #493
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Originally Posted by TonsofPuppies View Post
It would be a blow to the team if Kessel were to get hurt. Just like it was when we lost Lupul and Frattin to injury. I don't want Kessel to get hurt, but as I stated, injuries are part of the game. Should all of our players avoid all forms of physical contact because they might get hurt? If the idea of physical contact is so frightening to you, then you shouldn't be playing the game of hockey. Should everyone stop driving because there's a chance they might get in an accident?
Well if Kessel is a "disgrace to the game of hockey" as you so eloquently put it, then it shouldn't really be a major loss should Kessel get injured.

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03-08-2013, 11:31 AM
  #494
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Keep him, try and sign a top flight UFA forward. Instead of trading him for lesser pieces, and try and sign a top forward.

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03-08-2013, 11:31 AM
  #495
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
I hope you know that Perry is a superstar pest on his team..and the fact that he's not afraid of getting hit OR going to the corners.

Perry is not a defensive liability like Kessel.
mhmm.. whatever makes you feel better about your opinion

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03-08-2013, 11:31 AM
  #496
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
So you want Kessel to take hits and if he gets hurt (likely a concussion from a hit) You are completely fine with that?

You want Kessel to be out possibly long-term? Just so you can say he took a hit?

You want your best player to willingly get hit all the time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
No, but you make it sound like Phil Kessel should look to get hit.

I want Phil Kessel to face as little contact as he can. If he gets hit, he gets hit, and that happens.

Often, Kessel moves the puck and avoids the hit. But people naturally focus on the negative, thus people only focus on Kessel's giveaways and defensive game.

People also tend to want what they don't have. We deal Kessel for Bobby Ryan lets say... People will turn around and start tearing Ryan's game apart, and say they wish we had Kessel's scoring
You're bang on.

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03-08-2013, 11:32 AM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
No, but you make it sound like Phil Kessel should look to get hit.

I want Phil Kessel to face as little contact as he can. If he gets hit, he gets hit, and that happens.

Often, Kessel moves the puck and avoids the hit. But people naturally focus on the negative, thus people only focus on Kessel's giveaways and defensive game.

People also tend to want what they don't have. We deal Kessel for Bobby Ryan lets say... People will turn around and start tearing Ryan's game apart, and say they wish we had Kessel's scoring
You're misunderstanding me. I don't think Kessel should look to get hit. And yes, if he can make a play without getting hit, he should do that. That's what smart players do. However, he shouldn't be scared to go after a loose puck in the corner because an opposition player might hit him. He needs to in there and get the puck instead of floating around hoping that someone will do the dirty work for him. In that game against the Flyers last week, a puck was flipped into a corner in the Flyer's zone and Kessel completely bailed on the puck (after initially chasing after it) once the Flyer's defenseman was closing in on him. Ray Ferarro called him out a few minutes later for this play. This sort of thing is unacceptable and pathetic. Especially since it happens in every single game he plays.

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03-08-2013, 11:36 AM
  #498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonsofPuppies View Post
You're misunderstanding me. I don't think Kessel should look to get hit. And yes, if he can make a play without getting hit, he should do that. That's what smart players do. However, he shouldn't be scared to go after a loose puck in the corner because an opposition player might hit him. He needs to in there and get the puck instead of floating around hoping that someone will do the dirty work for him. In that game against the Flyers last week, a puck was flipped into a corner in the Flyer's zone and Kessel completely bailed on the puck (after initially chasing after it) once the Flyer's defenseman was closing in on him. Ray Ferarro called him out a few minutes later for this play. This sort of thing is unacceptable and pathetic. Especially since it happens in every single game he plays.
I would have to find a clip of that play, but I doubt he just stopped and watched the guy get the puck.

Did he go off for a line change? The smart thing to do?

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03-08-2013, 11:43 AM
  #499
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Originally Posted by TonsofPuppies View Post
You're misunderstanding me. I don't think Kessel should look to get hit. And yes, if he can make a play without getting hit, he should do that. That's what smart players do. However, he shouldn't be scared to go after a loose puck in the corner because an opposition player might hit him. He needs to in there and get the puck instead of floating around hoping that someone will do the dirty work for him. In that game against the Flyers last week, a puck was flipped into a corner in the Flyer's zone and Kessel completely bailed on the puck (after initially chasing after it) once the Flyer's defenseman was closing in on him. Ray Ferarro called him out a few minutes later for this play. This sort of thing is unacceptable and pathetic. Especially since it happens in every single game he plays.
He doesn't go into the dirty areas, that's not the type of player he is. He isn't perfect by a long shot, but the Leafs have chosen to accept that because of the benefits they DO get from him. Not every player has to be gritty. As a player, you can't change your style of play substantially without having it affect the areas that have allowed you to succeed. These sorts of things are the things that will prevent him from escalating into the truly elite of the league, this is undeniably true, but this isn't news. So he'll never be the best player on a Stanley Cup championship team. Neither will most every other player in the NHL.

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03-08-2013, 11:44 AM
  #500
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I would have to find a clip of that play, but I doubt he just stopped and watched the guy get the puck.

Did he go off for a line change? The smart thing to do?
He slowed down as soon as he saw the Flyers defender racing after the puck with him and then spun away from the player and the puck once he lost the race. Like I said, Ray Ferraro called him out for it and showed it on replay.

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