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Subban's play since coming back

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Old
03-08-2013, 08:29 AM
  #751
Montreal Shadow
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and wich aspect of his game do you think he improved ?
Is this a serious question? He's improved all facets of his game. He takes much less stupid penalties because he's far more effective at shielding the puck than before. Haven't you seen him move around with it? The spins, the dangles, how he separates the opposing players from the puck, the way he uses his stick along the board. I'm amazed by how good he is with the puck. The best part is that it isn't all flash, it's mostly substance.

He's a slo better on the PP now. Keeps the play flowing instead of going for the big slapper. When he see there is an opening, he mostly hits the net instead of going wide and many time, it results in a rebound or goes straight in.

He's still a bit flashy but now he doesn't do end-to-end rushes like he used to. He gets in the offensive zone and dumps the puck for a forward to retrieve it. He's less out of position and doesn't take himself out of the play to lay the big hit but isn't less physical for that.

Subban is simply much smarter now. He still does a couple of mistakes because he still sometimes tries to do too much but otherwise he's improved all aspects of his game.

His puck moving skills are what impress me the most. His first pass has to be one of the best in the league and he's so damn effective at maintaining the puck in the offensive zone on the PP. Best Dman on the team. Better than Markov who frankly took a step backward as he is too slow now.

Edit: He also stopped the antics and the trolling. We're seeing a far better NHL'er now. I was worried he would stop improving but he took huge steps forward.

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03-08-2013, 08:35 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
The point isn't that Bergevin folds and gives him 6M now. It's that he would have signed for less than that, maybe around 4.5-5M, and so save us about 1M off the cap.
No one knows that to be the case at all. Even if it was, let's say he signs a long term deal for less than he's worth. That would sure piss me off after my first Norris trophy and every year afterwards. Pay the guy what he's worth. We got a bit of a deal for 2 years. The year after that you open the vault for him because he deserves it.

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03-08-2013, 08:40 AM
  #753
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Subban is tied for 1st amongst defenseman in goals and tied for 8th in scoring with significantly less games played than the leaders. Subban proving once again that he's more than worth it. Bergevin is seeing right before his eyes why Subban was waiting out his contract. He's worth a lot more than what he was given. Oh well, Bergy better prepare to anti up when Subban's contract expires in two years.

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03-08-2013, 08:41 AM
  #754
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Seeing PK play well, produce points and 'act corporate' must really irk all of his detractors.
I'm not sure what you mean by this? I was one of the rare Habs fans that didn't enjoy his "flamboyancy", and now I couldn't be happier with how he's turning out.

That other stuff, while entertaining for some, has been proven this season as unnecessary.

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03-08-2013, 08:42 AM
  #755
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Originally Posted by CanadiensVault View Post
Subban is tied for 1st amongst defenseman in goals and tied for 8th in scoring with significantly less games played than the leaders. Subban proving once again that he's more than worth it. Bergevin is seeing right before his eyes why Subban was waiting out his contract. He's worth a lot more than what he was given. Oh well, Bergy better prepare to anti up when Subban's contract expires in two years.
He will pay through the nose. Everyone knew he would have too, including Bergevin. This bridge gave him the time to put the rest of the roster in place.

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03-08-2013, 08:45 AM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by this? I was one of the rare Habs fans that didn't enjoy his "flamboyancy", and now I couldn't be happier with how he's turning out.

That other stuff, while entertaining for some, has been proven this season as unnecessary.
I love his all business approach mixed in with his exuberance. He's picking his spots way better. He represents the CH brand as opposed to the PK brand. The twinkle is still there.

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03-08-2013, 08:48 AM
  #757
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I love his all business approach mixed in with his exuberance. He's picking his spots way better. He represents the CH brand as opposed to the PK brand. The twinkle is still there.
Loved to see Markov facewash him the other night after he scored too. Think it was the NYI game.

He's grown up a lot, most of the credit goes to himself but I think MB and MT played a pretty big part too.

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03-08-2013, 09:31 AM
  #758
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Don't get me wrong, I like Raphael Diaz. I like how he's improved this season and I like him in the line-up ahead of Kaberle and Weber (maybe even Bouillon). But the guy should NEVER, at any level of hockey, play in the line-up ahead of PK Subban. This guy is a ******* horse for us on the back-end. Yes, he has his times where he makes a stupid play or gives it away, but other than that he's steady eddy back there. Plus he can drop people when he wants too, has a cannon on the PP, and always gets the puck out. I love the way he uses his body to shake off defenders, using that one-arm to throw them back as he just casually skates up the ice.

I have, and always will, love this kid and how he plays the game. The start of the year was brutal when there was all these comments questioning his commitment or how good of a player he was.
EXACTLY !

Pretty much all of my posts on this board are about giving a wake up call to Subban's detractors. I just can't believe how many people out there can't see how good and complete he is just because of a few risky play gone wrong.

The guy is a risk taker and he's still our most steady and reliable defenseman... Some will argue for Gorges or even Markov but Subban is much more involved/dominant on the puck than them.

This kind of defenseman is EXTREMELY RARE and I think they are the most valuable commodities in the league.

When I heard Pierre Houde yesterday say that Subban "will probably end up excellent" when he polishes every part of his game I was shaking my head. He's already there... sure he can still grow even more but he's already an elite d-man at both end of the ice. Coaches have been giving him 25+ minutes from his first stint 3 years ago and he always ends up being used in every situations and against the opposition's best line.

As an mma fan, It reminds me of when I was arguing that GSP was leaps and bounds better than Diego Sanchez back when GSP was not a champion yet. There were many arguing that Sanchez would end up better and it boggled my mind how these people couldn't see how limited Diego's potential was in relation to GSP's talent.

Some people can't see greatness (or at least potential greatness) even if it hit them right in the face I guess...

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03-08-2013, 09:35 AM
  #759
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With Karlsson out of action for the rest of the year, I could see PK being a Norris candidate if he continues on this pace. He's already tied for the league lead in goals for a defenceman and he's 3 points behind the second placed scoring defenceman with 6 games less played. Just gotta get the +/- up a little as its decent, but could be even better.

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03-08-2013, 09:48 AM
  #760
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Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
With Karlsson out of action for the rest of the year, I could see PK being a Norris candidate if he continues on this pace. He's already tied for the league lead in goals for a defenceman and he's 3 points behind the second placed scoring defenceman with 6 games less played. Just gotta get the +/- up a little as its decent, but could be even better.
I actually do not want PK to win the Norris. It will cost us much more to sign PK if he win the trophy. The only advantage for PK to win the Norris is that our fanbase can say to other fanbase that we have a Norris winning defenceman in our team (look at the Sens).

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03-08-2013, 09:56 AM
  #761
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I actually do not want PK to win the Norris. It will cost us much more to sign PK if he win the trophy. The only advantage for PK to win the Norris is that our fanbase can say to other fanbase that we have a Norris winning defenceman in our team (look at the Sens).
Seriously? If he wins the Norris that would be amazing!

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03-08-2013, 10:03 AM
  #762
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
I actually do not want PK to win the Norris. It will cost us much more to sign PK if he win the trophy. The only advantage for PK to win the Norris is that our fanbase can say to other fanbase that we have a Norris winning defenceman in our team (look at the Sens).
But...by that logic we would have the reigning Norris trophy winner, in which case he's proven to be the best d-man in the league, and paying him as such would be normal.

No?

Am I missing something...?

If he wins the Norris, I would expect Bergevin to pogo stick to his house with glee, and $6.5M in a brief case

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03-08-2013, 10:06 AM
  #763
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I have a feeling that Bergevin might sign PK to a long term extension this summer like he did with Pacioretty. He'd have one more year at 2.875 million then his new contract would kick in. I would give him 6 year deal worth 34 to 38 million. Markov's salary will be off the books (or much less) by then.

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03-08-2013, 10:08 AM
  #764
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and there's no evidence that it's a better strategy (in building a contender).
You don't need evidence to understand that signing a player at a lower cap hit is better.
Point was do you take the risk. Apparently to some, PK was a risk. They weren't sold on him, and that's why they didn't want him signed long term.

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03-08-2013, 10:13 AM
  #765
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by this? I was one of the rare Habs fans that didn't enjoy his "flamboyancy", and now I couldn't be happier with how he's turning out.

That other stuff, while entertaining for some, has been proven this season as unnecessary.
I don't think Subban's game is any different than it was last year, the only difference is the puck is going in at a more frequent rate. That's also due to the fact that the talent around him is better.

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Old
03-08-2013, 10:16 AM
  #766
Dr Gonzo
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You don't need evidence to understand that signing a player at a lower cap hit is better.
Point was do you take the risk. Apparently to some, PK was a risk. They weren't sold on him, and that's why they didn't want him signed long term.
I heard that a lot this summer as well. Which in my opinion, with the stats to back it up, was a very stupid point of view.

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03-08-2013, 10:31 AM
  #767
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I heard that a lot this summer as well. Which in my opinion, with the stats to back it up, was a very stupid point of view.
It's always a risk. Look at a guy like Myers. A guy like Green.

Nothing is ever certain. When you're a new GM and you have a new coach and you've heard rumours about a player's popularity in the room and his work ethic, and with the fact he didn't break 40 pts last year as the team's top D, you have to be a little cautious.

I'm not saying it was the right move, and I personally was convinced he was worth $4.5m per, but to say it's a stupid POV is pretty shallow in my opinion. They're playing it safe and the fact that he's making little money gives us room to maybe sign someone big in the offseason to put us over the top next year.

PK had very little leverage as a RFA. And had he signed his big contract for 6 years, who knows how he would be playing now (I'd venture a guess that there would be little difference, but who knows, really).

I love the kid and think he is amazing - however, to try to pretend this was a black and white issue is pretty dumb. There were valid arguments from both sides and to be honest, now that everything has sorted itself out, I couldn't be happier with how it's ended up (thus far).

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03-08-2013, 10:38 AM
  #768
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It's always a risk. Look at a guy like Myers. A guy like Green.

Nothing is ever certain. When you're a new GM and you have a new coach and you've heard rumours about a player's popularity in the room and his work ethic, and with the fact he didn't break 40 pts last year as the team's top D, you have to be a little cautious.

I'm not saying it was the right move, and I personally was convinced he was worth $4.5m per, but to say it's a stupid POV is pretty shallow in my opinion. They're playing it safe and the fact that he's making little money gives us room to maybe sign someone big in the offseason to put us over the top next year.

PK had very little leverage as a RFA. And had he signed his big contract for 6 years, who knows how he would be playing now (I'd venture a guess that there would be little difference, but who knows, really).

I love the kid and think he is amazing - however, to try to pretend this was a black and white issue is pretty dumb. There were valid arguments from both sides and to be honest, now that everything has sorted itself out, I couldn't be happier with how it's ended up (thus far).
You're the first person I hear saying this, did you just make that up or what?

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03-08-2013, 10:40 AM
  #769
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I really hope Bergevin and the Habs will be good to PK and extend him in July with a long term deal.

PK has been nothing but a Pro since coming back

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03-08-2013, 10:43 AM
  #770
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It's always a risk. Look at a guy like Myers. A guy like Green.
Agreed, but that's hockey. However there are probably more examples of RFA's playing well than the few examples of those that aren't. Neither prove anything however, since it's about PK Subban, and not Doughty, Karlsson, Myers or Green.

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Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
Nothing is ever certain. When you're a new GM and you have a new coach and you've heard rumours about a player's popularity in the room and his work ethic, and with the fact he didn't break 40 pts last year as the team's top D, you have to be a little cautious.
The 40 point thing is really irrelevant, and his work ethic has NEVER been questioned by anybody. If they have, they are ignorant. He works insanely hard, and gives 100% off and on the ice, there's no disputing that. There was a lot of b.s. perpetuated by RDS and co, but I hope Bergevin didn't delve into that unsubstantiated drama.

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Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
I'm not saying it was the right move, and I personally was convinced he was worth $4.5m per, but to say it's a stupid POV is pretty shallow in my opinion. They're playing it safe and the fact that he's making little money gives us room to maybe sign someone big in the offseason to put us over the top next year.
It really was a stupid point of view to think that Subban hadn't proven anything (however insensitive as that sounds). The stats backed up his play. There are facts that prove he had indeed made his mark, and the numbers simply don't lie.

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PK had very little leverage as a RFA. And had he signed his big contract for 6 years, who knows how he would be playing now (I'd venture a guess that there would be little difference, but who knows, really).

I love the kid and think he is amazing - however, to try to pretend this was a black and white issue is pretty dumb. There were valid arguments from both sides and to be honest, now that everything has sorted itself out, I couldn't be happier with how it's ended up (thus far).

Many of us brought up several situations were bridge contracts ended up costing us more in the long run, and had a feeling the same situation would play out with PK. Alas, it seems to be happening again. We probably could have signed him for cheaper on a long term this summer, but unfortunately we didn't.

I am really happy with his play, but I still maintain view that he should have been signed long term for (hopefully) cheaper when the situation presented itself. If he continues his progression next year, we're going to pay a mint for his services, and rightfully so.

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03-08-2013, 11:19 AM
  #771
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Sorry but i just never understood this way of thinking?, and i constantly see this type of post when regarding subban

"hurt us in the end?" as in, him making 6 million plus in 2 years? ...what exactly is the problem with that? ... do most people think hes NOt worth the 6 mill? and that the habs shouldnt pay that and that another team should?....

i always thought, if pk is going to eventually end up making 6 mill plus....then its because hes PLAYING like a 6 mill plus player and putting up 6 mill plus numbers ..? then why dont we want him doing all that 6 mill plus sutff WITH us? ..do we think hes going to make 3 mill for 15 years?



so what would of happened if bergevin had folded and given pk 6 mill plus NOW , then the thinking would be : " damn, hes really trying to live up to that hefty contract!" ...but no. hes making under 3 mill..and now its : " wow, pk putting up these numbers and play is a STEAL considering his contract..." ..... so again whats the problem should the 2 years be up and we HAVE to pay him the large contract? that he's earning?

what if we won the cup this year or the next? and then after that bridge contract, we HAVE to pay him 7 mill a year..... would it still matter if we had just won the cup, and hopefully thanks in part to subbans play?

im not targeting you personaly bud, i just cannot, seem to "get" the "wow subbans gonna kill us next contract" posts, ... relatively speaking, dont we WANT this???? wouldnt it mean hes worth and playing like a large contract player??? ..bergevins not an idiot...

the contract at the moment is a steal, and he is outperforming it, and the team is only benefitting from it, ..so why would this stop when he starts getting paid like an all star, and when that even happens, we will have freed up enough cap space for it to be economically viable, paying a player an amount he actually deserves over gomez 7 mill/gionta 5 mill/cammy 6 mill......
Meaning that we could have signed him long term at a steal of a contract. Most of us knew PK would come in playing like he is now. He's a stud. It's not some secret. In a salary cap NHL, you have to take some risks, Subban would have been one of my risks and it probably would have paid off.

Not the end of the world if he gets paid big bucks, but it will hurt.

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03-08-2013, 11:30 AM
  #772
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Bergevin clearly wants to put a salary system like the Detroit Red Wings.They don't sign big names free agents every year and the homegrown players don't complain because it's a fair system where you get rewarded when you deserve it.It's like when Holland said that no one gets paid a higher salary than Lidstrom because he was the best player on the team.

If we can take pages from the book of the best hockey organization in the last 20+ years i am all for it.

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03-08-2013, 12:14 PM
  #773
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That bridge contract is going to hurt us in the end.
That's exactly what I said at the time.

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Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow View Post
On the team? He's the best.

In terms of pairing? He's top pairing for sure.

In the league? Nah. Probably top 20.
PK is a top 4 defenseman on any team.

On this team, definitely top pairing.

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03-08-2013, 12:14 PM
  #774
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Bergevin clearly wants to put a salary system like the Detroit Red Wings.They don't sign big names free agents every year and the homegrown players don't complain because it's a fair system where you get rewarded when you deserve it.It's like when Holland said that no one gets paid a higher salary than Lidstrom because he was the best player on the team.

If we can take pages from the book of the best hockey organization in the last 20+ years i am all for it.
Now all we have to do is draft a top 10 defenseman of all time in the 3rd round and we're all set.

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03-08-2013, 12:22 PM
  #775
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That's exactly what I said at the time.



PK is a top 4 defenseman on any team.

On this team, definitely top pairing.
He is top pairing on the 30 teams... Not just the habs..

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