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Dubnyk . . . not the problem

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:45 AM
  #26
jumptheshark
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first goal was a bad goal and it was game over, the team played on it's heals..

DD lets a bad goal in every other game and at some point this needs to be addressed.

Fred Chabot has had him for four years now and he has not fixed things and it maybe time to lay the blame on the teach for the bad goal a game problem--if we are not allowed to blame DD

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03-08-2013, 11:50 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAF View Post
Absolutely. Dubnyk's Corsi is just brutal. Look, he's obviously very good defensively in his own zone and an excellent shot blocker, but at some point he's got to start pitching in on offence and helping to put the puck in the net. His neutral zone play has been practically nonexistent, his shifts are waaaaay too long, he refuses to go into the corners and get his nose dirty, and his stick handling and playmaking are an absolute joke (though I think his skating and shot are underrated on these boards). All in all, a good defensive player and I love his size, but at some point, he has to turn the corner and round into a more complete two-way goalie if he is going to have a future with this club.
You make some very good points; and people wonder why we can't score 5 on 5. They need to look no further than the guy who gets the most ice time.

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03-08-2013, 12:15 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
Fred Chabot has had him for four years now and he has not fixed things and it maybe time to lay the blame on the teach for the bad goal a game problem--if we are not allowed to blame DD
That's the biggest question I have. Why is there such love for Dubnyk?

The Journal columnists treat him with kid gloves. Their player grades are overly generous for him.

Principe's man crush for "The Big Easy" on Sportsnet is sickening at times.

Does anyone truly believe the Oilers will ever make the playoffs with Dubnyk as the starting goalie?

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03-08-2013, 12:23 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by shoop View Post
That's the biggest question I have. Why is there such love for Dubnyk?

The Journal columnists treat him with kid gloves. Their player grades are overly generous for him.

Principe's man crush for "The Big Easy" on Sportsnet is sickening at times.

Does anyone truly believe the Oilers will ever make the playoffs with Dubnyk as the starting goalie?
I get kind of a laugh at "the big easy" moniker. Because one thing I've noticed in Dubnyk for years is how occasionally he will get rattled, lose confidence, fight puck, during a game.

He's not very resilient given he's never played anything close to a pressure game here. I can't imagine how bad he'd look in the playoffs. He has trouble maintaining focus for 60mins. Mind wanders, gets out of focus. This guy needs constant instruction to get over habits and make corrections in his game.

Everything he needs to learn is in Quicks game but I doubt it ever gets anywhere near that.

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03-08-2013, 12:30 PM
  #30
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People talk about how a team can't play with confidence if they can't trust the goalie. I can only imagine how Dubnyks confidence is rattled playing behind this defensive/offensive nightmare. The guys stress levels must be through the roof.

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03-08-2013, 12:34 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoop View Post
That's the biggest question I have. Why is there such love for Dubnyk?

The Journal columnists treat him with kid gloves. Their player grades are overly generous for him.

Principe's man crush for "The Big Easy" on Sportsnet is sickening at times.

Does anyone truly believe the Oilers will ever make the playoffs with Dubnyk as the starting goalie?
One should not forget that a goalies stats are more often than not a reflection of the team in front of him. If Brian Elliot can lead the league in save percentage, then Dubnyk can certainly lead this team to glory.

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03-08-2013, 12:37 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by ZenOil View Post
People talk about how a team can't play with confidence if they can't trust the goalie. I can only imagine how Dubnyks confidence is rattled playing behind this defensive/offensive nightmare. The guys stress levels must be through the roof.
As it should be. It's how he manages it thats the problem. Goalies' job is to stop pucks...while he's done a admirable job early on, he's falter more often than not now and whatever he has let in recently, a REAL starter would stop

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03-08-2013, 12:38 PM
  #33
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I would say not the biggest problem. He is doing ok. Everyone's play infront of him is a bigger concern right now.

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03-08-2013, 12:42 PM
  #34
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And when Elliot doesn't have the chance to rotate with Halak, we all see what happens.

I think Dubnyk would be fine in a rotating duo or as an excellent backup.

He just hasn't shown true #1 potential. What I said when we gave him the huge contract last year and even the first 10 games this year is: can he do this over the long haul?

Yeah, our D sucks and it's harder to focus when the team is in a freefall and you know you can't let in a goal or your team will lose, but that doesn't give him a free pass to allow bad goals.

On the Chabot issue - I think overall Dubnyk's positioning and aggression and rebound control have improved over the last 3 years.

Not sure if Chabot is to blame for the barn door five-hole or repeated moments where Dubnyk isn't hugging the post.

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03-08-2013, 12:42 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by ZenOil View Post
One should not forget that a goalies stats are more often than not a reflection of the team in front of him. If Brian Elliot can lead the league in save percentage, then Dubnyk can certainly lead this team to glory.
You would be comfortable with this goalie in the playoffs or a SC final?


We'd have to have a Pronger back there. Dubs gets rattled under pressure. Things occasionally get to this goalie where he panics, freezes, struggles.

This guy imo would be an adventure in the playoffs. I don't know that you know a goalie inside out until you see him in the playoffs.

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03-08-2013, 12:51 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
A team plays a lot different when they don't have confidence in the guy behind them.

They also play a lot different after they've been deflated by a weak first period goal.

Dubnyk definitely hasn't been helping us win games lately.
It's a two way street

How is Dubnyk suppose to have any confidence in this entire team. It cant be easy knowing that if you let in a goal, your team basically has no chance at responding.

He's basically the only guy who seems to be giving a **** and has responded pretty well after letting in a weak goal.

Did we really expect Dubnyk to be an instant top 10 goalie in his first starting year?

Our fire power was suppose to help him out but all I see is everyone letting him down, even Kreuger

That said, yes there is parts of his game he needs to sure up before this team can be a playoff threat

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03-08-2013, 12:54 PM
  #37
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How many times have the Oilers restricted a team to less than 28 shots this season?

ZERO TIMES.

That's kind of amazing when you think about it.

Not a single game where the Oilers have held their opponent to fewer than 28 shots.

Teams that AVERAGE 28 shots against per game or less:

ST LOUIS 23.3... 24th in goals against
LOS ANGELES 24.2... 11th in goals against
NEW JERSEY 25.7...14th in goals against
CHICAGO 26.8... 1st in goals against
NASHVILLE 27.1... 6th in goals against
PHILADELPHIA 27.2... 25th in goals against
MONTREAL 27.2... 8th in goals against
BOSTON 27.3... 4th in goals against
MINNESOTA 27.5... 9th in goals against
VANCOUVER 28.0... 10th in goals against

Oilers 15th in goals against... better than the Blues and Flyers and similar to the Devils.

So 10 teams average less shots against than the Oilers best efforts.


They lead the league in shots against.

A net differential of minus 5.6 shots. Projected over a full 82 game schedule that would work out to 459 more shots against than for.

Using a conservative 8% shooting accuracy by opponents... that's equivalent to an extra 37 goals in a full season just based on that excess of shots given up. Essentially a half goal per game given up just based on shots differential alone.

I'm not making excuses for Dubnyk. He isn't perfect but he's stolen some games for the Oilers as well and kept them in some when they had no chance otherwise.

The Oilers suck defensively and their mediocre offense only accentuates that instead of helping to cover it up.

You can blame Dubnyk all you want for soft, untimely goals... and sometimes it happens but facing all that rubber I'm not at all surprised.


Last edited by nexttothemoon: 03-08-2013 at 12:59 PM.
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Old
03-08-2013, 12:57 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
I think Dubnyk would be fine in a rotating duo or as an excellent backup.

He just hasn't shown true #1 potential. What I said when we gave him the huge contract last year and even the first 10 games this year is: can he do this over the long haul?

Yeah, our D sucks and it's harder to focus when the team is in a freefall and you know you can't let in a goal or your team will lose, but that doesn't give him a free pass to allow bad goals.
Great point. He is a good solid backup and that is it.

While the contract was a little high in terms of salary, it was only for two years.

I think Dubnyk has proven he cannot play when the pressure is on. Two weeks from now the Oilers will be out of the playoffs and Dubnyk will begin playing out of his mind again. Which will inflate his stats and I suspect lead the team to bring in a backup when Khabibulin is done rather than a true #1.

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03-08-2013, 01:04 PM
  #39
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I'm not making excuses for Dubnyk. He isn't perfect but he's stolen some games for the Oilers as well and kept them in some when they had no chance otherwise.
There are three games all season that Dubnyk has arguably stolen for the Oilers.

January 20th against the Canucks (season opener)
January 24th against the Kings
January 30th against the Coyotes

The Canucks game was an incredible game, no doubt Dubnyk played well. The other two games were good solid games and he got some luck. Not 'stealing' games IMO, but arguable.

Other than that ... not so much.

He definitely sees a lot of pucks, but the softies kill the spirit of the team.

Fuhr let in softies when he was here. No where near as many as Dubnyk. More importantly, he would let in the softies when the powerhouse Oilers were blowing teams out.

A softie when the game is tied or it's a one goal game can be a back breaker. Dubnyk has let in at least eight of those this year. The mental focus is just not there when it counts.

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03-08-2013, 01:08 PM
  #40
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Another Dubby thread, I see im not the only one saying he sucks anymore, just takes others a little longer because of denial.

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03-08-2013, 01:22 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoop View Post
There are three games all season that Dubnyk has arguably stolen for the Oilers.

January 20th against the Canucks (season opener)
January 24th against the Kings
January 30th against the Coyotes

The Canucks game was an incredible game, no doubt Dubnyk played well. The other two games were good solid games and he got some luck. Not 'stealing' games IMO, but arguable.

Other than that ... not so much.

He definitely sees a lot of pucks, but the softies kill the spirit of the team.

Fuhr let in softies when he was here. No where near as many as Dubnyk. More importantly, he would let in the softies when the powerhouse Oilers were blowing teams out.

A softie when the game is tied or it's a one goal game can be a back breaker. Dubnyk has let in at least eight of those this year. The mental focus is just not there when it counts.
I noted this in another thread as well... the Oilers have tallied 3+ goals only 5 times in their last 18 games. 6,5,3,3,3 were their best offensive tallies. The other 13 games: 0,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2

There is just no margin for error in most games. If you score 0 goals you obviously can't blame the goalie. He might as well let in 5 softies and it wouldn't make a difference.

Score 1 goal and your goalie has to be perfect to get the win. 2 goals... again not much margin for error. 1 bad goal against is obviously critical if you only put up just 2 goals for and yes you can blame a goalie but that's on the lack of offensive support as much as the goalies inability to keep out "soft ones".

Put Fuhr in net on an Oilers team that tallied 2 or less in 13 games out of an 18 game stretch (probably never happened ) .. and I guarantee they'd be screaming for Fuhr's head as well. Just zero margin for error in those situations.

In the 5 games in the last 18 that the Oilers gave tallied 3+ they have 4 wins and the other was the 4-3 shootout loss to Columbus.. so they have points in all 5 of those games. Good evidence to me that when the Oilers score... the pts come.

The ice is tilted almost every single game towards the Oilers net. Look at the shot totals, the chances per game etc... all expose the Oilers combo of offensive and defensive weaknesses.

Worst shots against.. worst 5 on 5 scoring... PP that's now going AWOL. It honestly would take an All-Star goalie to tread water in this environment.

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03-08-2013, 01:28 PM
  #42
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25th in Save % and 26th in GAA, yep thats how good he is, cant imagine any other team in the NHL using him as a starter, yet we do Makes me wanna poke my eyes out.

You know the kid can make saves in close usually its them far away shots that he either gives up a huge rebound for or its in the net. Does he wear glasses? maybe he should if he doesnt.

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03-08-2013, 01:29 PM
  #43
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Dubs is obviously not 'the' problem but is part of the problem.

Fact:

He does let in a weak goal a game in most nights. He seems to still struggle with the gaping 5-hole and long shots.

That being said; this team has many problems and the blame should not be shouldered on Dubs. The bench boss is a majorpart of the problem with his complex system that nobody on the team seems to understand other than Kruegs himslef.

Management is the bigger problem and focus should be spent on just that. Tambi is the reason why we have had so many coaching changes and put a rookie coach with a rookie/young team. That spells disaster. This entire organization is a domino effect.. starting with Lowe and ending with Krueger.

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03-08-2013, 01:34 PM
  #44
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There is too much pressure on him because he doesn't get any goal support

BUT

He is not elite and we need an elite goalie to make the playoffs.

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03-08-2013, 01:35 PM
  #45
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When ever you have to make a thread defending a guy, well thats just admitting hes not doing well.....

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03-08-2013, 01:36 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoop View Post
There are three games all season that Dubnyk has arguably stolen for the Oilers.

January 20th against the Canucks (season opener)
January 24th against the Kings
January 30th against the Coyotes

The Canucks game was an incredible game, no doubt Dubnyk played well. The other two games were good solid games and he got some luck. Not 'stealing' games IMO, but arguable.

Other than that ... not so much.

He definitely sees a lot of pucks, but the softies kill the spirit of the team.

Fuhr let in softies when he was here. No where near as many as Dubnyk. More importantly, he would let in the softies when the powerhouse Oilers were blowing teams out.

A softie when the game is tied or it's a one goal game can be a back breaker. Dubnyk has let in at least eight of those this year. The mental focus is just not there when it counts.

He stole the 3-1 win in Columbus too (when paajarvi scored the SH GWG)

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03-08-2013, 01:36 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by IV XIV XCI View Post
There is too much pressure on him because he doesn't get any goal support

BUT

He is not elite and we need an elite goalie to make the playoffs.
You do not need an elite goalie. Look at Buffalo. Now look at the Blackhawks.

You need a strong team with hungry players. We have a bunch of floaters and very few hungry players.

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Old
03-08-2013, 01:38 PM
  #48
IV XIV XCI
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So................how do we fix this?

Aside from management needing to make trades, how will this team find secondary scoring?

Jeez, right now we don't even have primary scoring.

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03-08-2013, 01:55 PM
  #49
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He still lets in 1 weak goal just about every game. He might not be the main person to blame, but he's not blameless. He plays like Brodeur one game, then Dan Ellis the next.

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03-08-2013, 02:03 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
When ever you have to make a thread defending a guy, well thats just admitting hes not doing well.....
ha ha great point.

and yet I don't see any threads defending Nick Schultz....

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