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Ales Hemsky at the Deadline

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Old
03-08-2013, 01:26 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Except he is a second line guy in Edmonton, no? Give me a break down on how many games he has played on the top line this year, or even last. Thanks
Oh no, he's playing behind Eberle? Eberle was near a ppg last year, and a top 10 rw in the world last year. I guess Malkin and Mike Richards are only 2nd line centers because they play behind Crosby and Kopitar, respectfully. Hemsky is still a top line rw on a number of teams.

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03-08-2013, 01:30 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Oh no, he's playing behind Eberle? Eberle was near a ppg last year, and a top 10 rw in the world last year. I guess Malkin and Mike Richards are only 2nd line centers because they play behind Crosby and Kopitar, respectfully. Hemsky is still a top line rw on a number of teams.
Not sure who you are trying to placate with this, but Mike Richards is very much a second line center.

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03-08-2013, 01:31 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Except he is a second line guy in Edmonton, no? Give me a break down on how many games he has played on the top line this year, or even last. Thanks
You mean how many times has Hemsky been on the Oilers' top line since Eberle's sophomore season? Hemsky would be a 1st line winger on more teams in this league than not. Eberle is the reason Hemsky is on the 2nd line, not Hemsky.

By your logic, Malkin, Hossa, Zetterberg, Backstrom, and Kovalchuk (at least last year) aren't first liners either.

Last season was the only time since the lockout where Hemsky wasn't among the top 12 RWs in the league in PPG. He's still in the top 30 now despite being on the Oilers' 2nd PP unit and behind Eberle on the depth chart at ES.

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Old
03-08-2013, 01:32 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by jeromeo87 View Post
Ales Hemsky+Sam Gagner for Tuomo Ruutu+Jussi Jokinen
I would love Ruutu. Not interested in trading Gagner though, and don't have much need for Jokinen. What would it take to finish off a Ruutu for Hemsky deal?

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03-08-2013, 01:35 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by TorstenFrings View Post
Not sure who you are trying to placate with this, but Mike Richards is very much a second line center.
I disagree completely, and I think you will find that most people think Mike Richards isn't "very much a second line center". On more than half of the teams in the league, he would be a first line center. 2 time 30 goal scorer, 1 time 80 point and 1 time 70 point scorer, and has only scored under 60 in his first two years, and while playing in an anemic offensive system (and is on pace for over 60 points again even in such a system, while playing second line). These are not the numbers of a second line center, especially one who has such a solid all around game.

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03-08-2013, 01:36 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Oh no, he's playing behind Eberle? Eberle was near a ppg last year, and a top 10 rw in the world last year. I guess Malkin and Mike Richards are only 2nd line centers because they play behind Crosby and Kopitar, respectfully. Hemsky is still a top line rw on a number of teams.
Please don't put Hemsky on the same level as Malkin or Richards or the 50 forwards out there that play on second lines that are better than Hemsky. On a number of teams, probably less than half - so he isn't really a first line type of guy. Malkin is a top line guy for 29 teams, just not Pittsburgh.

Fact is he is a second line guy in EDMONTON who gets hurt often; misses games; makes too much (5 million is utterly ridiculous) and is a pass first type of guy and doesn't really play a good two-way game. That right there tells he he is far from a first round pick plus top prospect type of return.

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03-08-2013, 01:41 PM
  #107
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Didnt he get hurt again last night??

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03-08-2013, 01:44 PM
  #108
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Miller,stafford,regher for dubnyk,hemsky,smid

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03-08-2013, 01:47 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Please don't put Hemsky on the same level as Malkin or Richards or the 50 forwards out there that play on second lines that are better than Hemsky. On a number of teams, probably less than half - so he isn't really a first line type of guy. Malkin is a top line guy for 29 teams, just not Pittsburgh.

Fact is he is a second line guy in EDMONTON who gets hurt often; misses games; makes too much (5 million is utterly ridiculous) and is a pass first type of guy and doesn't really play a good two-way game. That right there tells he he is far from a first round pick plus top prospect type of return.
So, you don't watch him and just go with the HF beliefs of the player, good to know. He plays second line, behind a guy who was a top 10 rw last year. Hemsky is still a top 30 rw in the game, easily. He doesn't "get hurt often" either. He had two major injuries and missed significant time, but outside of those, he has played the average number of games in the league most years. His injury status on HF is highly over rated, especially considering he has taken some pretty big hits on those surgically repaired shoulders, showing that they are indeed now better. He is certainly not ridiculously overpaid, he is making what he should. I don't see how him being a playmaker instead of a scorer decreases his value either. His game is what it is, and he is still one of the best at what he does. The only thing you have right is that he doesn't play a two way game, but even there, he's not a major liability either. Watch some games and analyze a player for yourself instead of just reading dozens of incorrect threads and assuming they are right.

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03-08-2013, 01:48 PM
  #110
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Didnt he get hurt again last night??
Nothing major, just a bruised foot from taking a slapper off the inside of his foot. Probably won't play tonight, but nothing is broken, he'll be fine in a few days.

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03-08-2013, 01:51 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
On more than half of the teams in the league, he would be a first line center.
More than half sounds too much.

Crosby, Kopitar, Giroux, Getzlaf, Toews, Tavares, Sedin, Stamkos, Thornton, Staal, Bergeron, Backstrom, Datsyuk, Benn, Duchene I would not displace for him. Some of their teams also have 2LC easily better than Richards. Plus young guys going to be better and others who are just as good as Richards.

Sure he may be a 1LC on some teams, and also sure Hemsky would be the 1LRW on some teams, but that does not make them the value-equivalent of "first liners", who would be first liners on about every team.

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03-08-2013, 02:01 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by TorstenFrings View Post
More than half sounds too much.

Crosby, Kopitar, Giroux, Getzlaf, Toews, Tavares, Sedin, Stamkos, Thornton, Staal, Bergeron, Backstrom, Datsyuk, Benn, Duchene I would not displace for him. Some of their teams also have 2LC easily better than Richards. Plus young guys going to be better and others who are just as good as Richards.

Sure he may be a 1LC on some teams, and also sure Hemsky would be the 1LRW on some teams, but that does not make them the value-equivalent of "first liners", who would be first liners on about every team.
I bolded the ones that are unarguably better. Bergeron, Benn and Duchene, when compared one to one with Mike Richards, are debatable.

I also think you are confusing the term "first liner" with "superstar" or "generational talent". By your definition, there are what, 10-15 top line players in the league at each position?

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03-08-2013, 02:18 PM
  #113
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If anything, it's the other way around. The market for 1st liners is fairly well established at the deadline. A 1st and a prospect is pretty much the minimum these types of players go for.
Ryder has produced better numbers last year and was putting up better numbers this year and how did that trade go? Stars fans were boasting about him going for a 1st too, in the end they had to give up a 3rd with Ryder to get Cole.

I bumped this thread up to see how delusional the value was for Hemsky, I guess it still is.

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03-08-2013, 02:20 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
I disagree completely, and I think you will find that most people think Mike Richards isn't "very much a second line center". On more than half of the teams in the league, he would be a first line center. 2 time 30 goal scorer, 1 time 80 point and 1 time 70 point scorer, and has only scored under 60 in his first two years, and while playing in an anemic offensive system (and is on pace for over 60 points again even in such a system, while playing second line). These are not the numbers of a second line center, especially one who has such a solid all around game.
Mike Richards is a 2nd line Center. For a brief stretch he was a 1st line C, not sure how that's hard to understand. He's not even a 1st line C on the Kings and there's a reason why, Kopitar is a better player than he is. If he was better, then he would be.

An all around player that puts up 60pts is a decent 2nd line C, nothing wrong with that. That's like saying Stephen Weiss is a 1st line C.

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03-08-2013, 02:24 PM
  #115
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03-08-2013, 02:36 PM
  #116
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So, you don't watch him and just go with the HF beliefs of the player, good to know. He plays second line, behind a guy who was a top 10 rw last year. Hemsky is still a top 30 rw in the game, easily. He doesn't "get hurt often" either. He had two major injuries and missed significant time, but outside of those, he has played the average number of games in the league most years. His injury status on HF is highly over rated, especially considering he has taken some pretty big hits on those surgically repaired shoulders, showing that they are indeed now better. He is certainly not ridiculously overpaid, he is making what he should. I don't see how him being a playmaker instead of a scorer decreases his value either. His game is what it is, and he is still one of the best at what he does. The only thing you have right is that he doesn't play a two way game, but even there, he's not a major liability either. Watch some games and analyze a player for yourself instead of just reading dozens of incorrect threads and assuming they are right.
Saying he is still a top 30 rw in the game isn't exactly a glowing compliment. He is probably toward the lower of that portion at best. I would say maybe even lower. That to me, says he isn't among the top 100 in the NHL. I have watched Edmonton over the years and have seen Hemsky various times, when healthy and that hasn't been much the last three years. A 5 million dollar player to me should be playing 70 games at least; score 20-25 goals and put in 70 points and plays a good solid two-way game. Hemsky isn't that player. Sorry. He hasn't been a 20-goal scorer for four years and a 60 point guy for the same four years. Probably because he hasn't been healthy, another reason why he isn't worth it. He is talented and skilled. I can't take that away from him. However, to say he is worth 5 million is utterly ridiculous.

I have watched enough games of Ales Hemsky to know what he is all about. Funny, the vast majority of the hockey fans think the same as I do regarding Hemsky. The minority, reside in Edmonton.

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03-08-2013, 03:07 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Mike Richards is a 2nd line Center. For a brief stretch he was a 1st line C, not sure how that's hard to understand. He's not even a 1st line C on the Kings and there's a reason why, Kopitar is a better player than he is. If he was better, then he would be.

An all around player that puts up 60pts is a decent 2nd line C, nothing wrong with that. That's like saying Stephen Weiss is a 1st line C.
Again, I disagree. Yes, Kopitar is the Kings first line center. He's also a top 10 forward in the world. Richards, on most teams, is a first line center. Saying he isn't because Kopitar plays above him is bogus. By the same logic, Malkin is a second line player because Crosby is better. A player that puts up that many points on a team that doesn't score is not a second line center. You might want to check the stats on the top 30 scoring centers last year.

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03-08-2013, 05:07 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Oh no, he's playing behind Eberle? Eberle was near a ppg last year, and a top 10 rw in the world last year. I guess Malkin and Mike Richards are only 2nd line centers because they play behind Crosby and Kopitar, respectfully. Hemsky is still a top line rw on a number of teams.
I am a die hard Oiler fan . Eberle is still a kid learning the NHL game . If Hemsky was a true first line player he would be there . Enough with thing Hemsky is worth so much . We will get ok futures for him as in a late first round pick and maybe an ok prospect . Hemsky is playing good , but 2 years of injuries and very poor production has left a bitter taste on Gm,s .

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03-08-2013, 05:13 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Miller,stafford,regher for dubnyk,hemsky,smid
How is Regher playing this year ? If he is good i would consider this . But we would keep DD and you can keep Miller . Smid loves Edmonton so we maybe able to sign him back in the summer

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03-08-2013, 05:24 PM
  #120
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Its pretty tough to trade a guy when the fan base keeps trying to get rid of him year after year, deadline after deadline.

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03-08-2013, 05:29 PM
  #121
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Its pretty tough to trade a guy when the fan base keeps trying to get rid of him year after year, deadline after deadline.
I had to laugh.. The funniest part is, it's really true.

Further though, I doubt the Oilers will move him. He re-signed there last season when he could've bolted. He wants to be there and we know that's been a problem in Edm.

That has to mean something to an organization. There not in the position of the Flyers where they can keep screwing guys over.

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03-08-2013, 10:40 PM
  #122
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I am a die hard Oiler fan . Eberle is still a kid learning the NHL game . If Hemsky was a true first line player he would be there . Enough with thing Hemsky is worth so much . We will get ok futures for him as in a late first round pick and maybe an ok prospect . Hemsky is playing good , but 2 years of injuries and very poor production has left a bitter taste on Gm,s .
Finally, some reality.

I applaud you sir.

It's like the Stars fans that thought Ryder would get more at the deadline when the team had to give up a pick with him to get Erik Cole of all people (having a very poor season).

This isn't the NHL before the lockout. The cap is going down next year, teams are going to start valuing their prospects and picks a little more because those 3yr ELC are going to help them stay competitive and under the cap, etc.

Hemsky might get a 2nd and an ok prospect from a team, if someone is desperate enough, maybe a late 1st and a roster dump (an impending UFA).

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03-08-2013, 11:46 PM
  #123
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Eberle was a top 10 winger in the league last year. Hemsky wouldn't be playing above him regardless of how good he was playing, as he has never been as good as Eberle is already. He's still a solid addition for any team who isn't already cash strapped.


Last edited by spiny norman: 03-09-2013 at 11:12 AM. Reason: not needed
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03-08-2013, 11:47 PM
  #124
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Its pretty tough to trade a guy when the fan base keeps trying to get rid of him year after year, deadline after deadline.
Because NHL GM's care what fans discuss in trade forums, ha ha.

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03-08-2013, 11:49 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Finally, some reality.

I applaud you sir.

It's like the Stars fans that thought Ryder would get more at the deadline when the team had to give up a pick with him to get Erik Cole of all people (having a very poor season).

This isn't the NHL before the lockout. The cap is going down next year, teams are going to start valuing their prospects and picks a little more because those 3yr ELC are going to help them stay competitive and under the cap, etc.

Hemsky might get a 2nd and an ok prospect from a team, if someone is desperate enough, maybe a late 1st and a roster dump (an impending UFA).
You use Joe Nieuendyk making a horrible trade (and pretty much universally seen as one) as evidence in a legitimate "value of" thread? Nice try.

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