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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2012-13 Season Thread (Part 8)

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03-07-2013, 08:19 AM
  #426
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Ottomatic how do you know Windsor is not getting taxpayer money to stage event.
I have heard rumblings of this since Jan and it may or not be true .... but if it is then London really have done nothing wrong. They are getting a dime from anyone and having to fork over a huge bag of their own cash to stage this. Also in hopes of getting most back and that is dicey.

Who are the other donators in Windsor ? Has the Casino put up and funds....
Based on the success of the tournament in London in 2005 and since in other centres, there is zero chance they won't get their initial investment back, in spades.

Let's be honest here. Risk is virtually non-existent.

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03-07-2013, 01:32 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by SimonKnightsman View Post
Ottomatic how do you know Windsor is not getting taxpayer money to stage event.
I have heard rumblings of this since Jan and it may or not be true .... but if it is then London really have done nothing wrong. They are getting a dime from anyone and having to fork over a huge bag of their own cash to stage this. Also in hopes of getting most back and that is dicey.

Who are the other donators in Windsor ? Has the Casino put up and funds....
This is ridiculous Simon. The Casino putting up funds? In 2011 they lost $16 mil and they will be donating money to the Spits cause for 2013? They also laid off 120 employees. Where do you come up with this stuff?

As far as tax payer money I imagine that will come out when the budget is revealed which is being reviewed as we speak.

As Crottenham said the even itself is a money maker people aren't in any danger if they foot part of the bill.

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03-07-2013, 06:25 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by SimonKnightsman View Post
Ottomatic how do you know Windsor is not getting taxpayer money to stage event.
I have heard rumblings of this since Jan and it may or not be true .... but if it is then London really have done nothing wrong. They are getting a dime from anyone and having to fork over a huge bag of their own cash to stage this. Also in hopes of getting most back and that is dicey.

Who are the other donators in Windsor ? Has the Casino put up and funds....
Did you mean to direct that at me?

The money I'm talking about is in regards to London making a lot of money and as a result has more money to pay off the league with to "win" the hosting gig. My point I was trying to get at is the league punished Windsor for using it's money advantage to treat some players better, and that is against the rules. But London can use their financial advantage over everybody else in the league to offer the league the most money to buy the hosting gig.

So the league is saying - You can't use a financial advantage you might have to treat players better/improve your team, but you can use your financial advantage when you're offering us money to win favor.


Last edited by Ottomatic: 03-07-2013 at 06:30 PM.
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03-07-2013, 08:16 PM
  #429
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Team: London will have the best team. Barrie is a strong second. This is where Windsor is going to have trouble. The Spitfires will likely miss the playoffs and the OHL does not want the host team getting their butt kicked on the national stage.
An objective opinion on the relative strengths of Barrie and Windsor next year. I may not have said strong second, but like I said, I think they definitely are second... What say thou hockeylegend11?

I actually think this free press writer has it about spot on. Biased, sure, but he has the assessment about right. The only thing I disagree with to any large extent is that there should be serious consideration about going back to London so soon. Otherwise to hell with the bid process and just rotate it between Kitchener, London and Ottawa.

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03-07-2013, 08:20 PM
  #430
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So the league is saying - You can't use a financial advantage you might have to treat players better/improve your team, but you can use your financial advantage when you're offering us money to win favor.
That and ironically every time you host the cup you have more money to offer the next time around. I don't think what the Spits did is right, but this particular notion is a little hypocritical.

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03-07-2013, 09:15 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
An objective opinion on the relative strengths of Barrie and Windsor next year. I may not have said strong second, but like I said, I think they definitely are second... What say thou hockeylegend11?

I actually think this free press writer has it about spot on. Biased, sure, but he has the assessment about right. The only thing I disagree with to any large extent is that there should be serious consideration about going back to London so soon. Otherwise to hell with the bid process and just rotate it between Kitchener, London and Ottawa.
I think the writer meant a strong second this and Windsor out of the playoffs

for this year,if not he is clueless

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Old
03-07-2013, 09:21 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Ottomatic View Post
Did you mean to direct that at me?

The money I'm talking about is in regards to London making a lot of money and as a result has more money to pay off the league with to "win" the hosting gig. My point I was trying to get at is the league punished Windsor for using it's money advantage to treat some players better, and that is against the rules. But London can use their financial advantage over everybody else in the league to offer the league the most money to buy the hosting gig.

So the league is saying - You can't use a financial advantage you might have to treat players better/improve your team, but you can use your financial advantage when you're offering us money to win favor.
Exactly again duhhhhhh


Thx for posting the drivel theyre printing in the London Free Press.

Lets get real now......Barrie has never hosted this thing and they do have a competitive team over there next season also and can make more moves at the deadline to shore things up.Who cares about arena size, they will also make renovations.

Again I will say that Boug/WR never should have put up the bid after how we have been treated and this is before the so called santions.

I would have earned my way to the big dance on my own and to hell with the league and their internal butt licking politics.This crap of who puts up the most money has to go also.If Branch is really concerned about small market teams he should put HIS money where his mouth is.

Barrie wins it IMO hands down.

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03-07-2013, 09:22 PM
  #433
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People have said on here that Windsor winning would be bad press for the league. I'm starting to think London winning would be almost as ugly.

As for the game tonight...

Rychel and Vail each had three points, Pavelka made 35+ saves. While they were down 2-0 early, they never quit and actually made it a really good game. The Hounds got poor goaltending from their starter, but Murray did what he could in the second half.

I realize Windsor's chances of making the playoffs are slim, but two points is still huge.

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03-07-2013, 09:33 PM
  #434
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Maybe it would be good for London to win the bid. It would vindicate all the Windsor *****ers like myself and show the whole CHL the sway that the Hunters have over this whole league.

As for the game tonight.............

Rychel could have reached his 40th, he had a couple good chances he missed on, thought Studnicka had a strong game.This kid could be a sleeper for next season hope he hits the weights and gets faster.Pav played his usual strong game.Dont know what will happen if he wont come back next season.Vail looked good but to little to late for him.I still wish him Johnson were moved at the deadline for some assets.But what do I know.

In my mind the season's done.Looking right now for some bright spots for next yr. not much out there right now.

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03-07-2013, 10:31 PM
  #435
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Nice comeback after down 2-0 early,in winning 7-3 seems like nobody wanted to play def
Other then a couple bad goals allowed Pavelka was outstanding especially the last 2 periods
Solid offensive efforts by Rychel,could had 5 tonite if he buried his chances,Koko was a threat all nite,Aleardi great as always,Vail moved back to forward played his best game in a month,HoSang with a highlight goal,Sanvido and Bateman played well on the D overall.Zack Percy continues his fine play
Too bad winger Mitch Graham broke his hand last nite in his teams playoff elimination game,his team is done and so is he for the season,he actually played well in the 11 games
he appeared,a quick depth guy who is only 17

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Old
03-08-2013, 05:59 AM
  #436
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Dalla Costa you are full of crap. Why don't they give every mem cup to London and tell the rest of the teams to piss off. This is the first column of yours that I am discusted with, what an AH. Big deal if Barrie's arena is to small they have every right to boost their economy as London. Why doesn't London make their own league and do what they want. The Mem cup should move around the league fair is fair. Or give it to London and have them pay the other teams a huge some of cash for wasting they're time.
Every team deservs a fair chance!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes even south of the border!!!!

Nice game last night boys. Nice to see Pav#1 to disappear after the first and Pav#2 you are a real super star. Good game.

NOT DONE YET

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03-08-2013, 06:41 AM
  #437
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People have to calm down a bit over the article. He's stating an opinion, nothing more. His job is to get people talking; he's accomplished that.

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03-08-2013, 07:23 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
People have to calm down a bit over the article. He's stating an opinion, nothing more. His job is to get people talking; he's accomplished that.
Well said. He churns up junk to get people going. I have learned long ago to read it and then just walk away. He is a putz. The unfortunate thing is that people from other markets think that because a London beat writer is putting on paper, that London fans think his way too. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Selfishly, I want London to get the cup.
I was hoping Windsor would get the cup due to the new rink etc....
In the end, I think Barrie should get it as the city has backed them with bucks, they have a rigorous plan to add on to the rink, and that market deserves it....and the reason I think them over Windsor is ONLY because of the team that each time will potentially ice next year (including what is in the cupboards to trade come deadline time to improve your team - Spits are depleted).

Barrie has a silver lining in this if London gets the cup, at least they can look at it in they can get to the OHL championship and automatically earn a birth into the cup. Windsor has to go through London (not an eviable task) and then beat the team in the east to get to the cup.

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03-08-2013, 08:41 AM
  #439
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People have to calm down a bit over the article. He's stating an opinion, nothing more. His job is to get people talking; he's accomplished that.
True enough. People are talking.

Most London fans realize its a long shot because of recent hosting gig.
Some of the reasoning in The article makes sense, some I dont agree with.
IMO the LFP coverage is bad, ESP with regards to Knights and having seen Morris' articles for over 20 yrs I can say I dont usually have much respect for his contributions.

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Old
03-08-2013, 08:52 AM
  #440
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True enough. People are talking.

Most London fans realize its a long shot because of recent hosting gig.
Some of the reasoning in The article makes sense, some I dont agree with.
IMO the LFP coverage is bad, ESP with regards to Knights and having seen Morris' articles for over 20 yrs I can say I dont usually have much respect for his contributions.
My preference is to have a host city with a host team (doesn't mean the team has to be from the host city). This would allow the city to do all their prep work and the host team and build up their roster accordingly.
Naturally the host team and host city should be geographically close to one and another. This would allow small market teams with under-sized arenas to be selected as the host team....

ie: Host City: Barrie....Host team: Owen Sound

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Old
03-08-2013, 01:36 PM
  #441
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Every team deservs a fair chance!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes even south of the border!!!!
Thank you. Glad someone other than me said it.

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Old
03-08-2013, 02:08 PM
  #442
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My preference is to have a host city with a host team (doesn't mean the team has to be from the host city). This would allow the city to do all their prep work and the host team and build up their roster accordingly.
Naturally the host team and host city should be geographically close to one and another. This would allow small market teams with under-sized arenas to be selected as the host team....

ie: Host City: Barrie....Host team: Owen Sound
Shawinagan only had a capacity of 4300, so under-sized arena teams are not left out of the mix.
I for one think that it is an awful idea to have a host team from a different city. That's just asking for a loss in revenue.

Sorry Windsor people, we have hijacked your board for mem cup talk enough (again).
So, uh, how bout that Ho-Sang kid eh?

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03-08-2013, 02:26 PM
  #443
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Shawinagan only had a capacity of 4300, so under-sized arena teams are not left out of the mix.
I for one think that it is an awful idea to have a host team from a different city. That's just asking for a loss in revenue.

Sorry Windsor people, we have hijacked your board for mem cup talk enough (again).
So, uh, how bout that Ho-Sang kid eh?
Aren't there a lot of arenas in the Q very small? Aren't the biggest ones in Quebec, Halifax? Seems like unless those teams are bidding you will always get an undersized arena.

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03-08-2013, 02:53 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by Ottomatic View Post
Did you mean to direct that at me?

The money I'm talking about is in regards to London making a lot of money and as a result has more money to pay off the league with to "win" the hosting gig. My point I was trying to get at is the league punished Windsor for using it's money advantage to treat some players better, and that is against the rules. But London can use their financial advantage over everybody else in the league to offer the league the most money to buy the hosting gig.

So the league is saying - You can't use a financial advantage you might have to treat players better/improve your team, but you can use your financial advantage when you're offering us money to win favor.
Can you not see the error in your argument?
Your argument is premissed on your understanding of "financial advantage". But, here's the difference: Windsor's financial advantage entailed going "against the rules" (as you pointed out correctly). London's financial advantage is in keeping with the rules. So, you can't use 'financial advantage' across the board or you're guilty of an equivocation.
In other words, 'financial advantage' is obviously justified when it's done within the rules = London.
'Financial advantage' is not legitimate when it violates league rules = Windsor.

If you'd like to argue that London's 'financial advantage' in bidding for the Memorial Cup should be a violation of league rules, then you'll need a separate argument altogether.

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03-08-2013, 03:30 PM
  #445
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Can you not see the error in your argument?
Your argument is premissed on your understanding of "financial advantage". But, here's the difference: Windsor's financial advantage entailed going "against the rules" (as you pointed out correctly). London's financial advantage is in keeping with the rules. So, you can't use 'financial advantage' across the board or you're guilty of an equivocation.
In other words, 'financial advantage' is obviously justified when it's done within the rules = London.
'Financial advantage' is not legitimate when it violates league rules = Windsor.

If you'd like to argue that London's 'financial advantage' in bidding for the Memorial Cup should be a violation of league rules, then you'll need a separate argument altogether.
No I don't see a problem with Otto's statement. The financial advantage to the OHL speaks for itself as long as it's money in their pocket. Of course they issues with teams offering inducements to players because poor teams cried about it to the league. Of course overall league attendance from 10/11-11/12 was on the decline and it wouldn't surprise me if it declined again. Watching the OHL product now compared to 5-6 years ago the talent isn't the same because the recruits aren't flocking to the OHL now because of these rules and it's hurting the product on the ice. The OHL cut off their nose to spite their face and this is what they have gotten. They are now forced to move a team that draw zero fans back to NB, one of the best teams in the OHL draws 2800 fans, another team is barely around 3500. The product is quite poor to where it was in the mid 2000's late 2000's. In general nobody really cares about the OHL now it's directed by a dinosaur that has not kept up with the changing marketplace.

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03-08-2013, 03:34 PM
  #446
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Well said. He churns up junk to get people going. I have learned long ago to read it and then just walk away. He is a putz. The unfortunate thing is that people from other markets think that because a London beat writer is putting on paper, that London fans think his way too. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Again, goes back to my "He's getting you talking" comment. For all some of us know, he could be a really nice guy that just puts out an opinion column. Not everyone is going to agree with it. Just because he has an opinion doesn't make him a "putz" or anything else.

Quote:
In other words, 'financial advantage' is obviously justified when it's done within the rules = London.
'Financial advantage' is not legitimate when it violates league rules = Windsor.
Like he said, this just shows that if money is going to the league directly, it's okay. If it's going to a player that'll help the league, it's not okay. It comes down to "show me the money...no, not the player, ME!"

Quote:
The product is quite poor to where it was in the mid 2000's late 2000's. In general nobody really cares about the OHL now it's directed by a dinosaur that has not kept up with the changing marketplace.
I don't think Brampton moving had anything to do with the product. They were simply in a market where it was tough to sell a team.

The level of care about the OHL is still there, but it's becoming so big that it's tough for the average family to hit a game on a regular basis. They're keeping up with the times, but not the economy.

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03-08-2013, 03:59 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by nelli27 View Post
Can you not see the error in your argument?
Your argument is premissed on your understanding of "financial advantage". But, here's the difference: Windsor's financial advantage entailed going "against the rules" (as you pointed out correctly). London's financial advantage is in keeping with the rules. So, you can't use 'financial advantage' across the board or you're guilty of an equivocation.
In other words, 'financial advantage' is obviously justified when it's done within the rules = London.
'Financial advantage' is not legitimate when it violates league rules = Windsor.

If you'd like to argue that London's 'financial advantage' in bidding for the Memorial Cup should be a violation of league rules, then you'll need a separate argument altogether.
Who makes the rules? London can use it's financial advantage to host the Mem Cup for the second time in nine years - I wonder how much of that current financial advantage comes from the fact they hosted the Memorial Cup in 2005 in the first place. You get the exposure, the prestige, positive media coverage of your area that you can then use to sell kids to your program, expanding your season ticket base with new fan interest as well as making millions off hosting the tournament that could allow you to spruce up your arena which will then give you a further advantage the next time you bid.

So use your financial advantage to pay off the league = completely okay and even encouraged, but just don't use that financial advantage to treat players better.

It's even more amusing that the reason Mississauga was given the hosting gig in 2011 was supposedly to try and help sell the game in the GTA. London certainly doesn't need any help selling tickets or establishing a fan base.

Hosting the cup should be an enticement for teams to improve their situations - Barrie will put a million bucks into their arena - that's great. Windsor built a $70M arena on the tax payers dime - and for what? Gee, thanks for trying, but we're going to give gig to London again because they give us more money.

Windsor was royally screwed in 2011 - Branch made promises to Melynuk. Windsor was coming off one Mem Cup, was the odds on favorite for another given a very dominant team - so there was a chance to sell the potential three peat, and the returning team wouldn't have been the odds on favorite but our roster if we built instead of sold (Shugg and Cantin for Ebert and Kerby) would have been top five in the league (given we made it to the final four).

How much was the penalty lowered money wise? $150K right? Now if the Spits were told that they're not going to get the hosting gig outright already, why bid? Unless this is paying their fine without paying it ie. it was dropped to show maybe Windsor's crimes weren't as egregious as the initial penalty suggested - but Branch still wanted his money. Why else would Windsor waste $150K - give it to Branch for the honor of being able to give a presentation that they can't win?


Last edited by Ottomatic: 03-08-2013 at 04:14 PM.
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03-08-2013, 04:44 PM
  #448
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03-08-2013, 05:01 PM
  #449
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That is a terrific post Otto. My other question is with this selection committee I have seen their names associated with this tournament before. I believe there should be some transparency in the process, were any of these individuals on the committee when London bid in 05?

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03-08-2013, 05:22 PM
  #450
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Now that you mention it, I think there should be full transparency. Disclose how you came to the decision and where teams were successful.

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