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The All-Purpose Goaltending Thread #8

View Poll Results: Should we use an amnesty buyout on Bryz?
Hell Yes! 65 72.22%
Hell No! 25 27.78%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-08-2013, 03:35 PM
  #576
Bernie Parent 1974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
We can sit here going back and forth all day. Fact is Bryz needs to be better.
i agree with that, in general, and have said so over the last few days [specifically regarding vs NYR]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
It wasn't his fault last night. I'll give you that.
I agree with that, too.

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03-08-2013, 03:35 PM
  #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
the d is paid to block shots, not make turnovers, not give up breakaways ---- the offense is paid to block shots, not make turnovers, not give up breakaways & score goals & not miss wide open nets ...... yea, we know all that .....

so, which goals vs Bryz were "bad goals" vs PITT ? please tell me which ones were his fault ?

surely this is an easy question.
Speaking of being paid to block shots, the team is actually ranked 2nd in blocked shots. So you might not want to mention that if you're somehow trying to defend Bryz.

Edit: Also, the difference between Bryz and the other goalies in his supposed bracket is that those goalies probably make one of those extra saves to give their team a chance. They might even make two such saves to give them the win.

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03-08-2013, 03:37 PM
  #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
the d is paid to block shots, not make turnovers, not give up breakaways ---- the offense is paid to block shots, not make turnovers, not give up breakaways & score goals & not miss wide open nets ...... yea, we know all that .....

so, which goals vs Bryz were "bad goals" vs PITT ? please tell me which ones were his fault ?

surely this is an easy question.
Ok, the Dupuis goal occurred because he got his legs wrapped around the opposite goal post somehow and left a wide open net because he couldn't recover in time.

The Neal goal off of Coburn went under his pad because he couldn't keep his bad on the ice while sliding across (one of many goals he's given up since he's been here that have slid under his pad/stick because he couldn't keep them on the ice)

The third goal occurred because he was not in a position where he could see Kennedy's shot. Good goalies find a way to see around screens to stop high slot shots like that.

Each of those goals could be defensible on it's own but the fact that he didn't make saves on any of them when an above average goalie would have tells you a lot.

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03-08-2013, 03:47 PM
  #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
the d is paid to block shots, not make turnovers, not give up breakaways ---- the offense is paid to block shots, not make turnovers, not give up breakaways & score goals & not miss wide open nets ...... yea, we know all that .....
The team is in shambles right now, including Bryz. You have clearly missed that part of my argument.

Quote:
so, which goals vs Bryz were "bad goals" vs PITT ? please tell me which ones were his fault ?

surely this is an easy question.
First of all, goals don't have to be 'bad goals' to be stoppable.

From last night, two of the goals, Kunitz #1 & Neal, were bad breaks (who do you blame for these goals?). I didn't like Kennedy's goal and Dupuis' goal was a complete defensive breakdown (including Bryz). None of this changes the fact that Bryz has put up a sub-0.900 save percentage through 25 games.

I assume Bryz is blameless on roughly 1 out of every 10 shots and should be lauded for his exemplary play on the other 9.

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Last edited by CanadianFlyer88: 03-08-2013 at 03:53 PM.
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03-08-2013, 03:50 PM
  #580
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
Ok, the Dupuis goal occurred because he got his legs wrapped around the opposite goal post somehow and left a wide open net because he couldn't recover in time.

The Neal goal off of Coburn went under his pad because he couldn't keep his bad on the ice while sliding across (one of many goals he's given up since he's been here that have slid under his pad/stick because he couldn't keep them on the ice)

The third goal occurred because he was not in a position where he could see Kennedy's shot. Good goalies find a way to see around screens to stop high slot shots like that.

yea, youre right:
1. tell his team mates not to push him back into the net / around the post
2. go out and buy X RAY glasses
3. know that his D will be shooting pucks into our own net ....

yup, clearly every other goalie in the league has all those things covered

thanks for the belly laugh

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03-08-2013, 03:51 PM
  #581
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bryzgalov is bad and so is this teams system.... fire holmgren,fire lavi, buyout bryz and buyout *briere if he wont accept a trade... drastic but necessary... i don't care if it's boucher and heeter for the rest of the year and we lose 75% of games. Getting a great draft pick to draft a stud dman and trying to pry bernier or another low priced goalie with upside should be priority

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03-08-2013, 03:54 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
First of all, goals don't have to be 'bad goals' to be stoppable.
every goal is "stoppable".

my question was: which goals were clearly on Bryz vs PITT [in your opinion] ?

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03-08-2013, 03:57 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
i'm sorry .. he made A GREAT POKE CHECK [for those who say he never does] and never saw Kennedy:



if you want to blame him for not being able to see him through 1 to 3 players, we will just havta disagree
Hmm, that's an interesting sequence of snapshots. At first I thought he was better screened, but from the first picture it seems quite weird how he didn't see Kennedy's shot. I mean, not only is he not looking to the left of the screen, he's actually tilting his head to the right. So either he didn't follow the play very well at that time or there is a great lump of gold underneath the ice on the right exerting an increased gravitational force pulling him towards it. The latter theory might also work somewhat from the viewpoint of the second and the third picture, where it seems that instead of moving to the left, he actually goes to the right, avoiding the shot. It's quite unfortunate then that Kennedy's shot had too much velocity for the lump of gold to deflect the trajectory of the puck into Bryzgalov's chest.

Oh, and by the way, Bernie. You always talk how some goals weren't bad. I actually agree, and I don't think the ones he let in yesterday were necessarily bad. I certainly don't blame him for the loss. But bad is the opposite of good, and we don't live in a black-and-white world. I expect him (and I think you'll agree that we know for sure even your beloved Homer expects him to do that) to play good, not just not bad. You keep ignoring the forest for the trees, as others have pointed out. The forest is slowly decaying and the decay spreading, yet you go to one tree, look at it, say "that's not too bad; not too great, but not bad, either", and then extrapolate that hence the forest is doing as it should.


Last edited by SnS: 03-08-2013 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Let's stop the ********.
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Old
03-08-2013, 03:59 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
every goal is "stoppable".

my question was: which goals were clearly on Bryz vs PITT [in your opinion] ?
I think I was pretty clear in stating that I didn't like the Kennedy goal (he made himself small, kind of like Bob did at times when he was here) and the whole team, including Bryz, broke down on the Dupuis goal.

He stops one of those and the Flyers go into the third up one and we don't have to see Boucher.

Edit: I would suggest that the Neal goal was an example of a goal that wasn't really "stoppable".

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03-08-2013, 04:10 PM
  #585
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I think I was pretty clear in stating that I didn't like the Kennedy goal
saying you didn't like it could have meant "in general", so i didn't want to assume. [thought maybe the fact that of 5 Flyers, nobody covered Kennedy & 2 of them screened Bryz.

if you maintain that the only goal clearly on Bryz was the screened Kennedy shat, I can live with that, even though i can't say "Bryz blew that one, clearly"

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03-08-2013, 04:11 PM
  #586
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I love how you just ignore the rest of his post, and thus, his point.

He stops one of those, like a goalie with his cap hit can be expected to do, and the team gets a much needed point.

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03-08-2013, 04:12 PM
  #587
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post

Oh, and by the way, Bernie. You always talk how some goals weren't bad. I actually agree, and I don't think the ones he let in yesterday were necessarily bad. I certainly don't blame him for the loss.
then we agree regarding last night.

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03-08-2013, 04:20 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Hooray, best player for 2 minutes of the game.
We've gone from "2nd only to Craig Anderson this year" to "Among the best goalies in the NHL" to "Team MVP" to "Best player on the ice in xxxx game" to "Best player for 2 minutes of PK"

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

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03-08-2013, 04:25 PM
  #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
which goals vs Bryz were "bad goals" vs PITT ? please tell me which ones were his fault ?

because of the 9 goals last night, i find only 1 was a "bad goal" [clearly the goalie's fault] : Kimmo's.
You still don't get it. It's not only about preventing bad goals, it's also about making a couple big saves to keep your team in it. League average goalies can prevent the "bad goals" most of the time. That's not a big deal. The big deal is that he can't make the big stops when necessary to keep this team in the game. That's what he is being paid to do. Bryzgalov is held to a higher standard than Boosh or Leights or Biron or any of the other cheap goalies we've had here over the years.

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03-08-2013, 04:28 PM
  #590
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
it's also about making a couple big saves to keep your team in it.
like he did in the 2nd period last night, right up until the time that Coburn scored on him & nobody covered Kennedy, while they managed to screen their goalie.

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03-08-2013, 04:29 PM
  #591
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
then we agree regarding last night.
I hope the irony of me saying you only see the trees, but not the forest, and then you only addressing one line from the two paragraphs I've posted, isn't lost on everyone here

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03-08-2013, 04:35 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
then you only addressing one line from the two paragraphs I've posted
i addressed the only line i'm concerned about: did he let in bad goals vs Pitt, or not.

are you now claiming that he did let in "bad / weak / soft" goals vs PITT ?

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03-08-2013, 04:35 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
then we agree regarding last night.
You're just ignoring all the arguments that you can't counter now.

When are you going to give up? Is there any amount of evidence that will make you realize Bryz is not good? All of the goals in the game last night were perfectly stoppable, and saving one of them could've been the difference between 2 and 0 points. But with Bryz, like always, he didn't step up.

You can't just defend one instance and act like that makes up for the continuous deficiencies in his game. It doesn't matter if he makes one good save, or lets in one bad goal. It's how he plays night in, night out and that is BAD. He's always letting in momentum-killing soft goals. If he was a good goalie that was worth his money he would have the stats to prove it, and his stats are pretty clear on where he stands.

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03-08-2013, 04:36 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
like he did in the 2nd period last night, right up until the time that Coburn scored on him & nobody covered Kennedy, while they managed to screen their goalie.
Can I just ask you one question? How do you explain the fact that all these other mediocre goalies around the NHL post better save percentages than Bryzgalov?

I'm legitimately asking this question, do you believe the Flyers have the worst team defense in the NHL this year? If not, then which teams do you think are worse? Do you think this is one of the worst overall team defenses in the NHL since the first lockout?

I'm asking these questions because the only way to explain away Bryzgalov's horrendous numbers is to conclude that our team defense is among the worst in the NHL and that we are giving up the highest percentage of scoring chances per shot on goal in the NHL.

I'm just wondering if you legitimately believe that or what. I'm sure you'll just cherry-pick part of my statement though rather than actually answering.

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03-08-2013, 04:57 PM
  #595
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I've added the poll from WAB's buyout thread. So, have at it.

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03-08-2013, 05:01 PM
  #596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Speaking of being paid to block shots, the team is actually ranked 2nd in blocked shots. So you might not want to mention that if you're somehow trying to defend Bryz.

Edit: Also, the difference between Bryz and the other goalies in his supposed bracket is that those goalies probably make one of those extra saves to give their team a chance. They might even make two such saves to give them the win.
i sit and watch guys like grossmann and schenn block shot after shot on the penalty kill but could any of these stats be from us taking too many stupid penalties in the first place?

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03-08-2013, 05:03 PM
  #597
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To me this is pretty clear, we have this off-season and next to buy him out right? Assuming we do not win the cup this year or next (or come close) you buy out Bryz. He has improved greatly since last season but his play doesn't warrant his cap hit. The problem is his numbers suggest he is an average goalie at best this season. I'd rather yell at a low cap hit goalie who posts the same numbers as a high cap hit bryz goalie.

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03-08-2013, 05:04 PM
  #598
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i sit and watch guys like grossmann and schenn block shot after shot on the penalty kill but could any of these stats be from us taking too many stupid penalties in the first place?
That definitely would inflate shot blocking, but they're solid shotblockers at even strength too. Grossmann had a nice kicksave recently. Straight out of the 70s; Bernie must have been working with him. Or considering the "pads" he's using, 1902 is more like it.

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03-08-2013, 05:05 PM
  #599
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The Bryz supporters say the same things every game.

We are paying this dude $6 million a year. He was great early on, no denying that, but for $6 million he should be performing that way for the majority of the year. Not faltering in huge divisional games.

There isn't even the slightest bit of doubt in my mind that he should be amnestied.

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03-08-2013, 05:09 PM
  #600
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Isn't anyone else tired of the goaltending and blaming everything on it. Every year for the past years that i can remember its always goaltending this and that. The Truth is its the team in front of the goalie for the most part. Isn't it obvious at this point look no further than 2010 as a prime example. Other teams have won cups with one hit wonder goalies so to speak. The team isn't consistent at all and no backup goalie isn't helping that situation on our starting goaltender.

Im tired of hearing other teams fans talk about ah philly hasn't had a goalie since Pelle, who gives a crap? So Ray Emery and Cory Crawford are vezina candidates now? Why did we let Emery go if he is so good? Its the team in front of you and thats about it.

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