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Kulemin + Gunnarsson+ for a strong defensive defensemen

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:55 AM
  #26
Nizdizzle
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
I wouldnt move Bieksa because he is an orignal canuck draft pick and do not like moving career guys after they put in so much effort for the team for years and years.

But if he wanted to be a Leaf, I would do so

I am ball parking this trade value because I have never considered trading Bieksa before.

Toronto

Bieksa

Vancouver

Bozak

Gunnarson

2nd 2013
Yeah... Thats a no-go from the Leafs...

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03-08-2013, 11:57 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Gunnarson (LD) for Polak (RD)?

The Leafs have depth on the left side and need help on the right side to play over Kostka or Holzer. Polak is signed for 3 more years at 2.75 per. Gunnarson is stuck behind Phaneuf and soon Gardiner, Rielly and possibly Ranger on the left side.

The Blues need a LD capable of playing 20 minutes and Polak is stuck behind Piet and Shattenkirk on the right side for years to come. Gunnarson is an RFA at the end of the year and should come in around the 2.75 Polak makes.

Thoughts?
It would take an overpayment for the Blues to move Polák. Gunnarsson doesn't have as much value (not as proven, not signed).

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03-08-2013, 11:58 AM
  #28
Ricky Bobby
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Originally Posted by Teeder9 View Post
Polak is on a team friendly contract. Better than Gunnarson and as tough as they come. Love to have him though
Is he really better or just on a better team and playing against 3rd lines because Piet and Shattenkirk take the toughest match ups?

Gunnarson won't get a big contract because like Polak he doesn't put up big numbers.

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03-08-2013, 11:59 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Is he really better of just on a better team and playing against 3rd lines because Piet and Shattenkirk take the toughest match ups?

Gunnarson won't get a big contract because like Polak he doesn't put up big numbers.
He was just as good when they weren't and has gotten better. He brings everything Gunnar does and adds toughness, so yes, he is better

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03-08-2013, 12:00 PM
  #30
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The leafs would never get proper value for those guys. Leafs are doing it with smoke and mirrors and Kule especially is a big part

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03-08-2013, 12:02 PM
  #31
416Leafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Toronto

Bieksa

Vancouver

Bozak

Gunnarson

2nd 2013
I would do that. Bieksa is physical, can move the puck, can play in all situations, and is a right-handed shot. He'd be a solid upgrade over Gunnarson.

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:11 PM
  #32
Duffman955
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I think Bieksa, Michalek, Jaybo, Tyutin are possible targets

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:12 PM
  #33
Ricky Bobby
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Originally Posted by Teeder9 View Post
He was just as good when they weren't and has gotten better. He brings everything Gunnar does and adds toughness, so yes, he is better
How about if we add CMac (who should be worth something like a 2nd + 5th on his own) to make the deal look like this:

Gunnarson
CMac

for

Polak
3rd rounder

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:15 PM
  #34
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Brooks Orpik.

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:22 PM
  #35
leaflover
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Not so sure about trading Kulemin. Leafs need to get stronger defensively both at forward and on defense. Much prefer to throw in an offensive winger which can be replaced from within simply by bumping into a bigger role. With so many teams appearing to need a bit of an offensive boost it stands to reason Toronto ends up with a longer list of potential trading partners by offering up an offensive winger.

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:23 PM
  #36
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any interest in Coburn?

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:34 PM
  #37
Ricky Bobby
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Originally Posted by leaflover View Post
Not so sure about trading Kulemin. Leafs need to get stronger defensively both at forward and on defense. Much prefer to throw in an offensive winger which can be replaced from within simply by bumping into a bigger role. With so many teams appearing to need a bit of an offensive boost it stands to reason Toronto ends up with a longer list of potential trading partners by offering up an offensive winger.
I also don't like the idea of trading Kulemin but if he wants big dollars after next year then we might be best trading him cause his value will never be higher.

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03-08-2013, 01:29 PM
  #38
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Rather than trying to make a potentially unnecessary trade, just move Phaneuf back to his proper side (the right side) and put Gunnarsson on the top-pairing beside him.

It worked reasonably well last season (given the options that were available at that particular time), so why not try it again? If it doesn't work out, then go and look for a trade partner.

There's no reason to be so quick on the "trade trigger".

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03-08-2013, 01:57 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Rather than trying to make a potentially unnecessary trade, just move Phaneuf back to his proper side (the right side) and put Gunnarsson on the top-pairing beside him.

It worked reasonably well last season (given the options that were available at that particular time), so why not try it again? If it doesn't work out, then go and look for a trade partner.

There's no reason to be so quick on the "trade trigger".
Well if I had any actual influence on the Leafs lineup I would've tried this a long time ago, but this discussion is more fun than that one.

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Old
03-08-2013, 01:59 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
I think Bieksa, Michalek, Jaybo, Tyutin are possible targets
Scratch Bieksa off that list, the canucks already have a lack of RHD we can't afford to trade one.

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03-08-2013, 02:54 PM
  #41
Ricky Bobby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Rather than trying to make a potentially unnecessary trade, just move Phaneuf back to his proper side (the right side) and put Gunnarsson on the top-pairing beside him.

It worked reasonably well last season (given the options that were available at that particular time), so why not try it again? If it doesn't work out, then go and look for a trade partner.

There's no reason to be so quick on the "trade trigger".
Phaneuf is a left shot so he is currently playing on his proper side.

Phaneuf hasn't been making the highlight reels as much on the left side but he has been a better dman with the fundamentals of the game like not getting beat to the outside, making the simple hits along the board, defensive awareness.

Gunnarson looks like he'll be the odd man out in the not to distant future.

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Old
03-08-2013, 02:57 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
How about if we add CMac (who should be worth something like a 2nd + 5th on his own) to make the deal look like this:

Gunnarson
CMac

for

Polak
3rd rounder
I'm a Leaf fan, so I don't know if they would want him. Think they have wingers like Mac though

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03-08-2013, 03:46 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Phaneuf is a left shot so he is currently playing on his proper side.

Phaneuf hasn't been making the highlight reels as much on the left side but he has been a better dman with the fundamentals of the game like not getting beat to the outside, making the simple hits along the board, defensive awareness.

Gunnarson looks like he'll be the odd man out in the not to distant future.
Just because he's a left-shot defenceman, it doesn't mean that he should be playing on the left side of the ice. IIRC, Phaneuf has always played on the right side and he's been very comfortable there, not to mention being at his offensive and physical best. Therefore, his proper side IS the right side.

Since his move to the left side, his defence has somewhat improved, but his offence has been significantly reduced, and for an offensive defenceman, that's never a good thing.

Now he's not much better than an average two-way defenceman on a god-awful contract. If that's what Carlyle is trying to turn him into, then they might as well trade Phaneuf for the best return they can get.

As far as Gunnarsson goes, I highly doubt that he'll be the odd-man out, given his current cost-effective contract, his up-coming RFA status, and his strong, reliable play. If anything, Liles and Komisarek will likely be dealt before him. With the salary cap dropping next season, the Leafs will likely want to keep an inexpensive reliable guy like Gunnarsson on the roster, not move him.


Last edited by EucaLEAFtys: 03-08-2013 at 04:02 PM.
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Old
03-08-2013, 04:14 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Just because he's a left-shot defenceman, it doesn't mean that he should be playing on the left side of the ice. IIRC, Phaneuf has always played on the right side and he's been very comfortable there, not to mention being at his offensive and physical best. Therefore, his proper side IS the right side.

Since his move to the left side, his defence has somewhat improved, but his offence has been significantly reduced, and for an offensive defenceman, that's never a good thing.

Now he's not much better than an average two-way defenceman on a god-awful contract. If that's what Carlyle is trying to turn him into, then they might as well trade Phaneuf for the best return they can get.

As far as Gunnarsson goes, I highly doubt that he'll be the odd-man out, given his current cost-effective contract, his up-coming RFA status, and his strong, reliable play. If anything, Liles and Komisarek will likely be dealt before him. With the salary cap dropping next season, the Leafs will likely want to keep an inexpensive reliable guy like Gunnarsson on the roster, not move him.
Carlyle would disagree with you about what side Phaneuf should play on and his opinion is what matters most.

Personally I think Phaneuf is better on the left side because his D is much improved and offensively he's starting to come around. Pro-rated he'd be on pace for a 40 point season so it's not as if he can't still produce points on that side. His offensive pace has also improved the more he has played there.

For other left D we've also got Gardiner, Rielly and possibly even Ranger who all far higher upside. Fraser is one tough SOB as a bottom pairing guy and Carlyle definitely wants that in his lineup.

Gunnarson is a nice D but we'd be trading from a position of strength to address an area of weakness. He might not be gone this season but I'd be surprised if he's still with the team after next season.

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Old
03-08-2013, 04:20 PM
  #45
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any interest in Coburn?
If the asking price is what I think it is I highly doubt we would.

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Old
03-08-2013, 04:44 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
The Leafs really need a defensive defensemen to play with Phaneuf because Holzer is getting burned constantly and really doesn't belong in that role.
Best offer I can give you from the Sharks is Braun (our #4 RHD on a great contract) for Gunnarson. You wold like Braun, and I think we would like Gunnar. We need a young LH PMD and I believe Gunnar would fit that need well. Both young guys with upside, think Braun is probably bit better at moment but Gunnar has more upside. Not sure where the picks would fall to balance out. So:

Braun for Gunnarson straight up?

(PS: what would you want for Clarke "I shall return" MacArthur as a rental?)

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03-08-2013, 07:04 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
The Leafs really need a defensive defensemen to play with Phaneuf because Holzer is getting burned constantly and really doesn't belong in that role.

Kulemin is a great defensive winger with streaky scoring ability, he does a lot of things that go unnoticed and I like him, but the Leafs are going to have a logjam in the wing and if a trade happens I see him as the most expendable guy who has value.

Gunnarsson is probably the Leafs 2nd best defensemen, I'd really be open to trading any of the Leafs defensemen not named Phaneuf or Gardiner but I think Gunnar would probably be most appealing to other teams. He's pretty strong defensively and decent offensively (9 points this season), but for whatever reason Carlyle has been reluctant to try him on the top pairing.


I'd be willing to add any non-1st round picks and any prospects not named Rielly, and of course if there are any teams out there that want Komisarek or Liles the Leafs wouldn't hesitate to add them.

Who do you think is the best defensive defensemen the Leafs could target? Would Dan Girardi be an option if Staal comes back healthy?
The Leafs aren't going to trade Kulemin OR Gunnarsson for a stay-at-home dman. They need to add that stay at home dman to their top 4, alongside Gunnarsson, and do not have a shutdown forward to replace Kulemin with.

Trading Gunnarsson for one is literally spinning your wheels. He is a strong defensive defenceman, and probably our best.

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Old
03-08-2013, 07:49 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
The Leafs really need a defensive defensemen to play with Phaneuf because Holzer is getting burned constantly and really doesn't belong in that role.

Kulemin is a great defensive winger with streaky scoring ability, he does a lot of things that go unnoticed and I like him, but the Leafs are going to have a logjam in the wing and if a trade happens I see him as the most expendable guy who has value.

Gunnarsson is probably the Leafs 2nd best defensemen, I'd really be open to trading any of the Leafs defensemen not named Phaneuf or Gardiner but I think Gunnar would probably be most appealing to other teams. He's pretty strong defensively and decent offensively (9 points this season), but for whatever reason Carlyle has been reluctant to try him on the top pairing.


I'd be willing to add any non-1st round picks and any prospects not named Rielly, and of course if there are any teams out there that want Komisarek or Liles the Leafs wouldn't hesitate to add them.

Who do you think is the best defensive defensemen the Leafs could target? Would Dan Girardi be an option if Staal comes back healthy?
Smid

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Old
03-08-2013, 10:10 PM
  #49
me2
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Scratch Bieksa off that list, the canucks already have a lack of RHD we can't afford to trade one.
No chance at all.
LS: Edler, Hamhuis, Garrison, Ballard, Alberts
RS: Bieksa, Tanev.

Not sure how changing Bieksa in to Gunnarsson helps that.


Maybe try and get Ryan O'Byrne off the Avs. He's come cheap and the Avs would be sellers. 6'5" 230, skates ok for his size and he'd fit Carlyle imho. 3rd pairing guy.


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Old
03-08-2013, 10:11 PM
  #50
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I'd rather just keep Gunnarsson and Kulemin, seeing as Gunnarsson is exactly what this proposal is asking for. Gunnarsson - Phaneuf should be reunited.

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