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When did Datsyuk get demoted to the 4th line?

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Old
03-05-2013, 10:27 AM
  #176
shadoz19
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You're assuming Bertuzzi comes back. With the back problems he's having, he might be on long-term IR permanently.

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Old
03-05-2013, 11:04 AM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Nope. The best part of Datsyuk's defense is his offense.
Is the best part of his offense his defense?

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Old
03-05-2013, 11:21 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Is the best part of his offense his defense?
If Datsyuk has the puck, the other team has no offense. As one of the best puck possession guys in the world, that's how he does most of his defense.

There are a lot of ways to defend.Blocking shots, back checking, intercepting passes, takeaways, taking away passing lanes. But some of those ways, while very effective, are no good for transition into offense. You take away a lane, you take away options, but that doesn't give you the puck. Same with blocking shots.

Datsyuk gets the puck back. And when he gets it, he rarely loses it. That's his defense. Even just this year he has 3-4 goals/assists from pure takeaways. Remember his shorty pass to Cleary? Pure takeaway. Or Nashville? Takeaway and wraparound to score. He's a pick possessing wizard.

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Old
03-05-2013, 05:11 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Yep.
And Dan Cleary, looking like a silly old man in overtime the other night when Hossa skated up behind him and stole the puck in the Detroit end...

How does a coach see that and still trust the guy?

MINDBOGGLING
possibly this?


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Old
03-05-2013, 05:14 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
possibly this?


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Old
03-05-2013, 05:17 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
possibly this?

This is fantastic and I am guessing is about to get a lot of run around these parts.

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Old
03-05-2013, 05:17 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
possibly this?

Hahaha nice, Flashy!

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Old
03-05-2013, 05:18 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
This is fantastic and I am guessing is about to get a lot of run around these parts.
I expect someone to have it as an Avatar soon.

Bench should get some credit for the idea though.

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Old
03-05-2013, 05:39 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
possibly this?

You are my hero!

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Old
03-05-2013, 05:47 PM
  #185
nik jr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Tatar would bring more skill, but I'm not sold that translates into more effectiveness. Same with Nyquist. A big part of it is that they're rookies, and rookies just don't typically produce much. Datsyuk, Franzen, Flip, and Hudler all put up around 10-14 goals in their rookie seasons (Z, as always it seems, was the big outlier at 22 - and he was a Calder finalist). I think expectations for the kid are just out of line with what he'd actually bring to Datsyuk's line. Put the lack of depth with the lack of experience with the insanely hard match-ups, and it's a recipe for mediocrity.

And this isn't to say I like the Abs-Dats-Cleary thing. It's ugly to watch, but it effectively nullifies the other team's top line and Datsyuk makes it dangerous. Meanwhile, Tatar makes our third line dangerous. I think the bit about Z's line disappearing, as well as our horrible PP, is what's really killing. It's obviously our most skilled line, but they're not consistently producing.

If Tatar gets bumped up to Dats' line, I won't complain, and I'll hope for the best. At the same time, I expect what we see from it now - some flashes of dangerousness (and maybe a goal, if we're a bit lucky), but a lot of Datsyuk carrying things and that line not screwing up. But I think our "third" line would be noticeably worse.

I just wish this team would get healthy and we can start seeing some better hockey.
we need to look at scoring chances for/against, shots for/against, etc for datsyuk's lines for each game over last several games.

abdelkader - datsyuk - cleary is ugly as hell, but may not actually be much worse in results. a sample size of a few games isn't enough when looking at GF/GA.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
If Datsyuk has the puck, the other team has no offense. As one of the best puck possession guys in the world, that's how he does most of his defense.

There are a lot of ways to defend.Blocking shots, back checking, intercepting passes, takeaways, taking away passing lanes. But some of those ways, while very effective, are no good for transition into offense. You take away a lane, you take away options, but that doesn't give you the puck. Same with blocking shots.

Datsyuk gets the puck back. And when he gets it, he rarely loses it. That's his defense. Even just this year he has 3-4 goals/assists from pure takeaways. Remember his shorty pass to Cleary? Pure takeaway. Or Nashville? Takeaway and wraparound to score. He's a pick possessing wizard.
that is the basic idea of puck possession that DRW have relied on for almost 20 years.

there are opposite cases of players who are less effective defensively than they seem b/c they are not very good possession players so they spend too much time in the defensive zone.

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Old
03-07-2013, 09:08 PM
  #186
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Looks like Babs wants Abby and Cleary in the top 6. Why not split them up.

Abby Zetterberg Brunner
Cleary Datsyuk Franzen

Z and Brunner do what they do and Datsyuk can spend 20 minutes a night feeding Franzen gifts all night.

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03-07-2013, 09:17 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by probertrules24 View Post
Looks like Babs wants Abby and Cleary in the top 6.
NOOOOO, what makes you say that?

Quote:
Why not split them up.

Abby Zetterberg Brunner
Cleary Datsyuk Franzen

Z and Brunner do what they do and Datsyuk can spend 20 minutes a night feeding Franzen gifts all night.
Gotta love that we are trying to figure out how to minimize the damage these 2 are doing to our top 6. Do we play them on one line and utterly murder the offensive potential for that line while leaving the other unscathed, or split them up on the top 2 lines and drag down both units? It's the age old ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't debate.

The whole argument over which of the 2 guys should or shouldn't be in the top 6 is like choosing between gonorrhea and syphilis... pretty sure there are no winners there.

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Old
03-07-2013, 09:34 PM
  #188
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Enough with the Abdelkader experiment. One goal in the past 37 games on an empty net. Datsyuk hasn't scored a goal in the last 8 games. Abdelkader is taking Datsyuk down the toilet with him!

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Old
03-07-2013, 11:50 PM
  #189
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You are my hero!
It's brilliant.

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Old
03-08-2013, 01:11 AM
  #190
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earlier this decade i was watching datsyuk and it was fun. but since this season its really painful to watch. only the highlight vs nashville is what i can remember.
just send cleary and abdelkader to somewhere. doesnt matter where. i would even accept a cap penalty to get rid of them.

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Old
03-08-2013, 07:36 AM
  #191
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It is pretty sad when the 3rd line is having more chances and impact in the game than the 2nd line. Helm centering andersson and Tatar would be one of the best 3rd lines in the league.

The only problem is that when others get healthy, Abdelkader and cleary is going to have someone else who is playing well pushed out of the lineup. Abby will do well on the 4th line and cleary should get the Ian White treatment.

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03-08-2013, 07:49 AM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fimoknete View Post
earlier this decade i was watching datsyuk and it was fun. but since this season its really painful to watch. only the highlight vs nashville is what i can remember.
just send cleary and abdelkader to somewhere. doesnt matter where. i would even accept a cap penalty to get rid of them.
That highlight was also him skating end to end against the entire Nashville team.

He's had some sweet highlights but one of the best was an across ice backhand pass to Z.

They desperately need a person with Offensive ability on Datsyuks line. Semin would be really nice right now.

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Old
03-08-2013, 03:08 PM
  #193
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Someone mentioned an interesting point on ****** yesterday that basically said that Babs has setup Datsyuk's line as a shutdown line to the best offensive lines of the opposing team.


"Babcocks post game pretty much sums up why cleary and abby are with datsyuk despite their lack of points. He said he is using datsyuks like as a shutdown line against top lines neutralizing the oppositions best players. He is not relying on it for offense, he is relying on it to make sure other teams dont score. That sounds pretty Datsyukian to me. Maybe that is why the wings GA has been around 1.2 over the last 7 or 8 games and the other teams top guys cant manage to score on us. If you drag your mind away from the offense (only 1/2 of hockey) and look at the defense you see that a abby-pav-cleary line is an incredibly strong defensive unit.

Perhaps Babcock had a chat with Datsyuk in the last month about what its going to take to win games. Being the player that Datsyuk has been for the last 11+ years im sure he was more than willing to sacrifice the points to make sure they win games. Instead of playing with Tatar who would produce more points than abby/cleary but will give up more defensively."


Pretty good point, I'd say. Points are great from shutdown units, but if we can keep their team from scoring, while getting production from a good 1st and 3rd line...

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Old
03-08-2013, 03:56 PM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sameheda View Post
Someone mentioned an interesting point on ****** yesterday that basically said that Babs has setup Datsyuk's line as a shutdown line to the best offensive lines of the opposing team.


"Babcocks post game pretty much sums up why cleary and abby are with datsyuk despite their lack of points. He said he is using datsyuks like as a shutdown line against top lines neutralizing the oppositions best players. He is not relying on it for offense, he is relying on it to make sure other teams dont score. That sounds pretty Datsyukian to me. Maybe that is why the wings GA has been around 1.2 over the last 7 or 8 games and the other teams top guys cant manage to score on us. If you drag your mind away from the offense (only 1/2 of hockey) and look at the defense you see that a abby-pav-cleary line is an incredibly strong defensive unit.

Perhaps Babcock had a chat with Datsyuk in the last month about what its going to take to win games. Being the player that Datsyuk has been for the last 11+ years im sure he was more than willing to sacrifice the points to make sure they win games. Instead of playing with Tatar who would produce more points than abby/cleary but will give up more defensively."


Pretty good point, I'd say. Points are great from shutdown units, but if we can keep their team from scoring, while getting production from a good 1st and 3rd line...
Uh OH.... don't look now, but more logic seeping into the thread.

Winger98 and Bench have done a very good job of describing what is going on in terms of lines and match-ups. Some people just don't want to see it.

It is one thing if the critics don't agree that the 8 13 11 line is the best way to go right now. It is quite another to suggest that Babcock is "incompetent" for sticking with it and suggesting it is not working.

The record clearly indicates that it is working.


Last edited by TKB: 03-08-2013 at 04:04 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old
03-08-2013, 04:00 PM
  #195
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i mentioned days ago that datsyuk is being used in a checking role, but he has been used in a checking role often since '07, while still being a star scorer. he was checking scoring lines when he played with homer, who was one of the worst ES players in the NHL.

same for zetterberg


datsyuk's and zetterberg's ability to check opponents effectively and still score a lot is what makes them special. neither have needed to play with grinders to accomplish it before.

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03-08-2013, 04:06 PM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKB View Post
Uh OH.... don't look now, but more logic seeping into the thread.

Winger98 and Bench have done a very good job of describing what is going on in terms of lines and match-ups. Some people just don't want to see it.

It is one thing if the critics don't agree that the 8 13 11 line is the best way to go right now. It is quite another to suggest that Babcock is "incompetent" for sticking with it and suggesting it is not working.

The record clearly indicates that it is working.
Yeah. Datsyuk needs a couple crappy wingers to play defensive hockey.

Great logic

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03-08-2013, 04:18 PM
  #197
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Andersson, Tatar, and Eaves dominated the Oilers last night. Even Emmerton couldn't be kept away from the net.

I want Datsyuk to have better players with him too, but for right now, this is working pretty well. 5-1-1 over the last 7 is hard to argue with, even with Datsyuk's production stagnant.

The defense has been stingy and the bottom 6 looks more productive. I don't think this is a winning strategy long term, but with injuries to Filppula and Helm it's been a pretty good adjustment.

There's also the musings by Holland that suggest Nyquist will be making an appearance, so there's hope to inject more offensive players to the mix as well.

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Old
03-08-2013, 04:23 PM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Yeah. Datsyuk needs a couple crappy wingers to play defensive hockey.

Great logic
Seeing as you were just complaining about an ad hominem, maybe you should hold off on using a straw man...At least for a couple shifts or so.

Though I can't say that I am surprised.

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03-08-2013, 07:15 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Sameheda View Post
Someone mentioned an interesting point on ****** yesterday that basically said that Babs has setup Datsyuk's line as a shutdown line to the best offensive lines of the opposing team.


"Babcocks post game pretty much sums up why cleary and abby are with datsyuk despite their lack of points. He said he is using datsyuks like as a shutdown line against top lines neutralizing the oppositions best players. He is not relying on it for offense, he is relying on it to make sure other teams dont score. That sounds pretty Datsyukian to me. Maybe that is why the wings GA has been around 1.2 over the last 7 or 8 games and the other teams top guys cant manage to score on us. If you drag your mind away from the offense (only 1/2 of hockey) and look at the defense you see that a abby-pav-cleary line is an incredibly strong defensive unit.

Perhaps Babcock had a chat with Datsyuk in the last month about what its going to take to win games. Being the player that Datsyuk has been for the last 11+ years im sure he was more than willing to sacrifice the points to make sure they win games. Instead of playing with Tatar who would produce more points than abby/cleary but will give up more defensively."


Pretty good point, I'd say. Points are great from shutdown units, but if we can keep their team from scoring, while getting production from a good 1st and 3rd line...
omg,

if i would want to watch rubbish like this i would watch live chess matches. taking the entertainment out of a hockey team let the ppl fall asleep in front of the tvs.
watching the wings at the moment is like watching someone playing hockey manager. has something to do with hockey but is boring like hell.

the last 5 games i fell asleep or switched over to exciting games like philly vs penguins. i dont go often into hockey arenas but i cant imagine spending 50 dollar for watching 60 minutes of hockey chess.

and just trying to destroying the game of the opponent instead of playing the game your way is not a feature or a heroic achievement it is only showing you the lack of skills to beat the opponent.

i am surprised that babcock is admitting the lack of skill on a direct way like that.

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Old
03-08-2013, 07:18 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
i mentioned days ago that datsyuk is being used in a checking role, but he has been used in a checking role often since '07, while still being a star scorer. he was checking scoring lines when he played with homer, who was one of the worst ES players in the NHL.

same for zetterberg


datsyuk's and zetterberg's ability to check opponents effectively and still score a lot is what makes them special. neither have needed to play with grinders to accomplish it before.
Exactly. There's really nothing more to add to this. Explains it perfectly.

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