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Why isn't the French league up there with other big ones?

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Old
03-07-2013, 03:22 AM
  #26
Evilo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schalkenullvier View Post
To the first point: Yeah, but do you think the same would have happened in France? Honest question, I have no idea. Evilo spaeks like going in debt like would have never been allowed to happen in france.
The DNCG usually delays its actions. Meaning that teams have a a couple of months to obey the rules.
I know a big team like Strasbourg had to go down to National. It's happenned to other big teams, but Lens just got away recently (and not yet out of problems I think).

I don't think they are exceptions, but the delays usually means big teams find a last minute sponsor or a last minute mercato selling.

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03-07-2013, 03:45 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Evilo View Post
Yes. Monaco has always been favoured for taxes (no taxes in Monaco)
To be precise, this is not true for French players, they pay the same taxes in Monaco as they would in France.

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03-07-2013, 03:54 AM
  #28
Evilo
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Yes that's true, sorry. But the club doesn't pay taxes (as a french employer would).

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03-07-2013, 04:26 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BSHH View Post
According to a comparison of tax quotas for top salaries on wikipedia, the tax situation seemed to be generally similar in France, Spain, Italy, Germany and the UK, before Hollande introduced this wealth tax in 2012.
Below is a link to an academic study into taxing of sportsmen. It's long on equations and short on laughs, but Page 59 displays a graph comparing the relative taxation of major football nations over a long period of time. France consistently has the highest rate of tax.

http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~saez/kleve...11football.pdf

In 2005 Spain reformed its income tax specifically to entice wealthy foreigners. Link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beckham_law

In the UK's case, income tax only reached 50% for a very short period of time. Furthermore, imports can avoid paying any income tax at all by securing "non-dom" status. A few years ago I read that hundreds of EPL players had availed themselves of that opportunity.

Then there's the manipulation of tax loopholes. Parts of a player's basic salary are accounted for as "loans" or "image rights", and taxed at a lower rate. I'm not sure to what degree this kind of legal tax avoidance is possible in mainland Europe.

It doesn't help French football that so many clubs have small fanbases, though.

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03-08-2013, 04:01 PM
  #30
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Pre-1998, rugby was arguably tied with soccer in France.

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03-08-2013, 04:35 PM
  #31
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haha, that actually reminds me of a paper I came up with in french class analysing if the 98 world cup with the "black, blanc, beur" players had any impact on the patriotism of immigrants of maghreb origins... can't remember the results unfourtunately

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Old
03-09-2013, 02:21 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
Pre-1998, rugby was arguably tied with soccer in France.
No, that's not true. Except maybe in the south west.

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03-09-2013, 10:54 AM
  #33
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Hey Evilo, you have any thoughts on why the rules that have lead to the Bundesliga's resurgence have been so crippling to the french teams? Is it just a question of fan support that keeps the french clubs from building up within the rules the way german teams have?

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03-09-2013, 11:52 AM
  #34
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Again, Germany benefits from three things :
- an exceptionnal crop of young players (something France had in the 90s).
- new state of the art stadiums.
- a team which is a consistant CL contender (Bayern).

We might have #3 with PSG, but only the future will say. By 2016 we should benefit from #2. As for #1, I like our up and coming generation.
So I'm not pessimistic, but since we're the most taxed country in Europe, we absolutely have to upgrade the stadiums, the young player development and the coaching approach (way too defensive makes it boring for fans).

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03-09-2013, 12:13 PM
  #35
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But this gifted generation is a result of the rules that were instituted over the past decade in germany. Rules that forced teams to put more of a focus on developing their own talent and youth academies. Rules that keep teams from being able to spend big bucks on imports the way BL clubs did in the late 90s/early 2000s.

The stadiums and supporters seem to be the big difference, which could lead to more money being funneled into finding and nurturing these young talents in highly technical and intricate systems. But Ligue 1 has a better tv deal than the BL and higher ticket prices so I don't know if the money difference really is that big.

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03-10-2013, 04:19 PM
  #36
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France just doesn't really care enough about the sport. Rugby doesn't seem as big as football, but football just doesn't seem to have the "near religion" status it has in the big football powerhouse countries. Perhaps it's a harsh assessment but outside of a few working-class strongholds (Northeast, the port cities), football seems to mostly be for Maghrebins.

My gf lived in France for a year and during visits I don't think I ever saw a white French guy wearing football gear.

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03-10-2013, 06:46 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
France just doesn't really care enough about the sport. Rugby doesn't seem as big as football, but football just doesn't seem to have the "near religion" status it has in the big football powerhouse countries. Perhaps it's a harsh assessment but outside of a few working-class strongholds (Northeast, the port cities), football seems to mostly be for Maghrebins.

My gf lived in France for a year and during visits I don't think I ever saw a white French guy wearing football gear.
Why would you humiliate yourself like that? Apart from maybe a cap or scarf when it's cold.

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03-10-2013, 08:00 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Why would you humiliate yourself like that? Apart from maybe a cap or scarf when it's cold.
I'm talking about everything, scarves, caps, hats, jerseys, shirts, jackets or even bumper stickers on cars or little pennants in the back windows of cars. That sort of thing. You go to England or Germany for example and you'll see that sort of stuff pretty often.

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Old
03-10-2013, 08:13 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
I'm talking about everything, scarves, caps, hats, jerseys, shirts, jackets or even bumper stickers on cars or little pennants in the back windows of cars. That sort of thing. You go to England or Germany for example and you'll see that sort of stuff pretty often.
I dunno, over here when it's gameday in football or hockey, you'll see them everywhere (especially in football), but none-game days, not at all.

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Old
03-11-2013, 01:38 AM
  #40
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Your assessment is simply offbase.
I can agree with the fact football isn't as huge as in the other top 4 leagues here. But it's easily the #1 sport. Saying it's only a minority of the nation who's a football fan is offbase.

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03-11-2013, 04:29 AM
  #41
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Obviously other posters in this thread are more qualified to answer the question, but if I had to I'd go with the "French people are less passionate about (club) football than the other big nations" answer as well.

There are plenty of teams in Ligue 1 and Ligue 2 that average less than 10k fans per match, and even the big clubs don't pull near the type of crowds the big clubs in the other big four nations do.

Match attendance isn't the only thing that matters, but I haven't heard anything that would indicate that French football would have anything comparable to the Italian TV culture that could even it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
I dunno, over here when it's gameday in football or hockey, you'll see them everywhere (especially in football), but none-game days, not at all.
Sweden definitely deviates from the norm when it comes to that kind of stuff. Other nations are much more accepting of the everyday use of club merchandise, something that becomes very evident when you look at the kinds of things offered by the clubs shops. In Sweden it is uncommon for clubs to even offer replica kits for sale and the only product you'll see people actually use in everyday life is coffee mugs.

Clubs from England and Germany on the other hand put their badges on everything from toasters and shot glasses to bikini's.


Last edited by Franck: 03-11-2013 at 04:42 AM.
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03-11-2013, 05:23 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Why would you humiliate yourself like that? Apart from maybe a cap or scarf when it's cold.
Damn, I must embarrass myself when I wear a Kaiserslautern or German jersey sometimes going to the shops, uni etc

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Old
03-11-2013, 12:07 PM
  #43
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Damn, I must embarrass myself when I wear a Kaiserslautern or German jersey sometimes going to the shops, uni etc
Seems Sweden does differ, but over here you would get stared down. Apart from wearing the national team jersey/colors when European championship or World cup in football is near, then you'll see them everywhere.


Last edited by Jonimaus: 03-11-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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03-11-2013, 12:26 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Seems Sweden does differ, but over here you would get stared down. Apart from wearing the national team jersey/colors when European championship or World cup in football is near, then you'll see them everywhere.
I don't see people on the streets with kits here either, except for gameday of course. Sweatshirts/jackets/all other sorts of everyday stuff seem fair game though.


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Old
03-11-2013, 12:27 PM
  #45
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Yeah same here. You don't joke with fashion in France

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03-11-2013, 01:28 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
Damn, I must embarrass myself when I wear a Kaiserslautern or German jersey sometimes going to the shops, uni etc
Germans are, of course, world renown for their fine tastes in fashion.










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03-11-2013, 02:54 PM
  #47
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Well, this discussion isn't about Sweden, which isn't exactly known as a passionate football-mad country anyway and things are a bit different in hockey anyway.

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03-11-2013, 03:10 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
Well, this discussion isn't about Sweden, which isn't exactly known as a passionate football-mad country anyway and things are a bit different in hockey anyway.
Maybe you should read the post (Hint: it's 2 above yours) where the french guy in the thread said "yeah same here", and then you continue to bring up more inaccurate points about Sweden (Football is by far the biggest sport here, just so you know)? Wow, I have no words for you.

I commented on a silly statement that because people don't walk around in sports jackets etc of their team means they don't care, used Sweden as an example, and apparantly it's the same in France.

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Old
03-11-2013, 04:24 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Maybe you should read the post (Hint: it's 2 above yours) where the french guy in the thread said "yeah same here", and then you continue to bring up more inaccurate points about Sweden (Football is by far the biggest sport here, just so you know)? Wow, I have no words for you.

I commented on a silly statement that because people don't walk around in sports jackets etc of their team means they don't care, used Sweden as an example, and apparantly it's the same in France.
Yeah because Sweden is known as such a world power of football? If France cares about football as much as Sweden the point has basically been proven.

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03-11-2013, 04:25 PM
  #50
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Lyon won 7 straight league titles in the 2000s (no such streak in those other leagues mentioned), but is there more parity in Ligue 1 than in those other 3 leagues? BTW, do you rank Bundesliga ahead of Ligue 1?

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