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Perry to Pittsburgh (if he doesn't want to re-sign w/ Ducks)

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03-08-2013, 11:38 AM
  #126
Exit Dose
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
I would like for you to point out where I said it wouldn't hurt their chances. I said it would hurt, but there are other players capable of winning a series or two.

There are just so many conflicting reports of how the prospect pool is viewed by Ducks fans. You have people saying that losing Perry isn't as big of a deal because they have wing depth but would be more afraid of losing Getz because center isn't deep. Then someone else will say the center depth is just fine.

IMO the posters are in the same stage as NJ fans, Preds fans, and Pens fans where in when people talked about them losing Parise, Suter, Staal respectively. I remember many of us on the Pens board talking about how trading Staal made no sense for a win now team, and that Staal would resign, and that Shero would make it a priority etc. A lot of that talk stems from wanting to believe that he would resign, and pointing to all the reasons you think they will. NJ fans came up with everything under the sun as to why Parise was staying in NJ from him being Captain, to his future wife wanting to stay in NJ because she liked her teaching job, to someone who talked to Parise and told him he was staying.

So once again, it is not best for this year to trade him, and yes it will hurt. But IMO it will not hurt the franchise as much as it would to not win the cup, AND get nothing for him.
We don't have a center that has shown franchise potential. We have many talented young centers. We have rookie wingers that are playing first line roles for us, and others that have shown that potential. Replacing Perry in the long term doesn't look like a major problem. Replacing Getzlaf is an entirely different story.

We aren't claiming that Perry is definitely staying here. That is just a strawman.

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03-08-2013, 11:42 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
They traded away Staal after the season ended. Very different story.



Oh, sorry. Now that I've read it, I'll tell you that the premise is silly. It'll never happen unless the Ducks go into absolute free-fall.



Kunitz is too old to be the centerpiece of a trade for a young scorer.
While that maybe true, it would be very hard for Pittsburgh to trade Kunitz based on his overall play and chemistry with Sid for a rental in Perry. That old guy you say he is, is playing better than the young scorer this year. Not saying Kunitz is better by any means, but ...

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03-08-2013, 11:58 AM
  #128
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No thank you on Perry. Great player, but the Pens have to use their money on bringing in more depth, not more stars.

Kris Letang will get a $3M - $3.5M on his new contract.

I think the Penguins should add a winger making $3M - $4.5M. Not a $7M+ winger.

Perry wants to test the market, there is no guarantee he will re-sign with a team that he is traded to (if he's traded)

Ducks are doing fine, I don't know if I would trade him. He's a difference maker, he can help them in the playoffs.

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03-08-2013, 12:04 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
They traded away Staal after the season ended. Very different story.



That is a completely vacuous argument. The Devils made it to the finals last season.

You're making no sense at all in this thread.





Oh, sorry. Now that I've read it, I'll tell you that the premise is silly. It'll never happen unless the Ducks go into absolute free-fall.



Kunitz is too old to be the centerpiece of a trade for a young scorer.
Oh I'm sorry hockey mastermind. Your right, getting into a discussion about a proposed scenario, and saying that a team losing a great player and getting something for him, is better than losing him and getting nothing at all, makes absolutely zero sense. Yes, what a horrible idea to get something in return

My guess is that if he gets traded to Detroit, you will think it is a smart move on the Ducks part.

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03-08-2013, 12:08 PM
  #130
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I find it extremely hard to believe the Ducks trade Perry when they stand to land the #2 seed to start the playoffs. I think the fans would call for managements head.

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03-08-2013, 01:28 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
You may be right, but that's all the more reason to keep Pears. I would trade that package for a deeper playoff run. We don't need prospects.
For the record, I agree and think the Ducks should retain him if only for the playoff run. But I could see where the organization might think differently, hence the thread.

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03-08-2013, 01:31 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
For the record, I agree and think the Ducks should retain him if only for the playoff run. But I could see where the organization might think differently, hence the thread.
Based on the ridiculous overpayment the Ducks gave Getzlaf, a guy that shouldn't be within a million of Crosby, Pittsburgh shouldn't entertain the notion of trading for Perry. He definitely would be a rental and you are basically giving assets to the Ducks for free. Pittsburgh couldn't afford to resign him. No chance, especially with the cap going down.

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03-08-2013, 01:32 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
Oh I'm sorry hockey mastermind. Your right, getting into a discussion about a proposed scenario, and saying that a team losing a great player and getting something for him, is better than losing him and getting nothing at all, makes absolutely zero sense. Yes, what a horrible idea to get something in return

My guess is that if he gets traded to Detroit, you will think it is a smart move on the Ducks part.
Actually, I imagine he'll say it's a smart move on Detroit's part.

Where's the precedent for trading one of your best players, mid-season, when you're amongst the top teams in the league?

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03-08-2013, 01:37 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Based on the ridiculous overpayment the Ducks gave Getzlaf, a guy that shouldn't be within a million of Crosby, Pittsburgh shouldn't entertain the notion of trading for Perry. He definitely would be a rental and you are basically giving assets to the Ducks for free. Pittsburgh couldn't afford to resign him. No chance, especially with the cap going down.
Crosby is making 12 million next year, and the next year... aaaand the year after. Then he's making 10.9, 10.9, and 9 million.

Care to try again?

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03-08-2013, 02:01 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Crosby is making 12 million next year, and the next year... aaaand the year after. Then he's making 10.9, 10.9, and 9 million.

Care to try again?
I do believe he was talking about the cap hit and on THAT point, he is correct.

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03-08-2013, 02:05 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Pelican Peach Pen View Post
I do believe he was talking about the cap hit and on THAT point, he is correct.
And yet, at the same time, he isn't. Funny how that works.

To be more specific, take a look at Crosby's contract, and average it out over the first 8 years of his contract. Tell me what his cap hit is then.

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03-08-2013, 02:12 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
And yet, at the same time, he isn't. Funny how that works.

To be more specific, take a look at Crosby's contract, and average it out over the first 8 years of his contract. Tell me what his cap hit is then.
His cap hit is 8.7. The actual cost this year or next or any year isn't what the fans care about that is for the owner to worry about, the cap hit is what matters.

For the record I don't think the Ducks overpaid for Getzlaf. That is about what he would have got on the open market I think, but he certainly didn't take a discount.

As for the trade I would much rather pursue Perry in the offseason unloading Kunitz makes no sense imo. His value is very high for his cost and he has great chemistry with Crosby. The Pens would be better off with a winger in the 3.5-5 million range not 7 million.

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03-08-2013, 02:13 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
And yet, at the same time, he isn't. Funny how that works.

To be more specific, take a look at Crosby's contract, and average it out over the first 8 years of his contract. Tell me what his cap hit is then.
I assumed he was talking about cap hit as well. He referenced Getzlaf being within 1 million of Crosby and he is correct according to Capgeek:

http://capgeek.com/ducks
Getzlaf: 8.25

http://capgeek.com/penguins
Crosby: 8.70

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03-08-2013, 02:15 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Beau Knows View Post
His cap hit is 8.7. The actual cost this year or next or any year isn't what the fans care about that is for the owner to worry about, the cap hit is what matters.

For the record I don't think the Ducks overpaid for Getzlaf. That is about what he would have got on the open market I think, but he certainly didn't take a discount.

As for the trade I would much rather pursue Perry in the offseason unloading Kunitz makes no sense imo. His value is very high for his cost and he has great chemistry with Crosby. The Pens would be better off with a winger in the 3.5-5 million range not 7 million.
His cap hit is based on different rules, Beau. You're trying to apply the same rules to both players, when they simply don't. If Getzlaf could have been signed to, say, a 12 year contract under the previous CBA rules, you can bet his cap hit would be lower. The actual money he is being paid over the 8 year span, however, would probably be about the same.

I'm actually a little flummoxed how people can so completely miss this point.

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03-08-2013, 02:15 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
And yet, at the same time, he isn't. Funny how that works.

To be more specific, take a look at Crosby's contract, and average it out over the first 8 years of his contract. Tell me what his cap hit is then.
Who cares what salary they are taking each year? All that matters is the cap hit.

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03-08-2013, 02:16 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Who cares what salary they are taking each year? All that matters is the cap hit.
Well, under the current rules Crosby's cap hit would be over 10 million over the first 8 years of his contract.

I'd really love to see an argument why this doesn't matter?

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03-08-2013, 02:21 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Well, under the current rules Crosby's cap hit would be over 10 million over the first 8 years of his contract.

I'd really love to see an argument why this doesn't matter?
But they knew that it would be 8.7 when they signed the deal. Crosby's last contract also had a cap hit for 8.7, seems likely it would have 8.7 no matter what the CBA rules were at the time. They would likely have altered the years and terms to make it come out to 8.7, he's just superstitious like that.

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03-08-2013, 02:23 PM
  #143
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But they knew that it would be 8.7 when they signed the deal. Crosby's last contract also had a cap hit for 8.7, seems likely it would have 8.7 no matter what the CBA rules were at the time. They would likely have altered the years and terms to make it come out to 8.7, he's just superstitious like that.
Okay, I think you're missing the point here... the whole 8.7 thing really isn't the point at all. It's the amount of money he was able to make, over that period, because of the way the old CBA worked.

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03-08-2013, 02:33 PM
  #144
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Okay, I think you're missing the point here... the whole 8.7 thing really isn't the point at all. It's the amount of money he was able to make, over that period, because of the way the old CBA worked.
No I get it. He is making more than 8.7 million in the next several years (you said about 10 mill average next 8 years) but the fans and many teams don't care a whole lot about the actual dollar value just the cap. Why should I care how much he actually makes? I just care about how it effects the team, ie the cap hit. All I care about when comparing two players like Crosby and Perry is their contract lengths, caps hits and their ability.

With that said I don't think there is anything wrong with Perry at 7 million. Judge his cap hit against the actual cap ceiling not another players cap because some players like Crosby's cap is not reflective of their actual value (Crosby should be max).

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03-08-2013, 02:35 PM
  #145
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Anaheim will want more.

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03-08-2013, 02:38 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Beau Knows View Post
No I get it. He is making more than 8.7 million in the next several years (you said about 10 mill average next 8 years) but the fans and many teams don't care a whole lot about the actual dollar value just the cap. Why should I care how much he actually makes? I just care about how it effects the team, ie the cap hit. All I care about when comparing two players like Crosby and Perry is their contract lengths, caps hits and their ability.

With that said I don't think there is anything wrong with Perry at 7 million. Judge his cap hit against the actual cap ceiling not another players cap because some players like Crosby's cap is not reflective of their actual value (Crosby should be max).
I don't think you should care, and this doesn't necessarily pertain to you at all. My issue is with people who have been comparing Getzlaf's new contract with Crosby's, and then they make some comment about how Getzlaf doesn't deserve to be within 1 million of him. Surely you can see the flaw in that argument.

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03-08-2013, 02:47 PM
  #147
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Crosby would have gotten max contract if he just wanted on open market. Great discount for Penguins and no use comparing that contract to anyones. Expect more signings like Getzlaf coming up in the future now that 8 years is max.

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03-08-2013, 07:03 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Based on the ridiculous overpayment the Ducks gave Getzlaf, a guy that shouldn't be within a million of Crosby, Pittsburgh shouldn't entertain the notion of trading for Perry. He definitely would be a rental and you are basically giving assets to the Ducks for free. Pittsburgh couldn't afford to resign him. No chance, especially with the cap going down.
Not necessarily. That price could be based on staying with the Ducks, not signing with a contender. Not to mention the Pens could easily afford to pay him if they dealt Kunitz and Orpik.

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03-08-2013, 07:12 PM
  #149
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Well, under the current rules Crosby's cap hit would be over 10 million over the first 8 years of his contract.

I'd really love to see an argument why this doesn't matter?
under the current rules sid has a cap hit of 8.7M.

there is literally no argument that you can make to change that fact.

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03-08-2013, 07:16 PM
  #150
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under the current rules sid has a cap hit of 8.7M.

there is literally no argument that you can make to change that fact.
You kind of missed the point. Under the current rules, if Crosby was signing a contract his cap hit would be significantly higher.

I thought that part was apparent.

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