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The All-Purpose Goaltending Thread #8

View Poll Results: Should we use an amnesty buyout on Bryz?
Hell Yes! 65 72.22%
Hell No! 25 27.78%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:13 PM
  #676
WeekendAtBernies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Radivojevic View Post
BP1974 conveniently ignored my post providing video evidence of 30+ big saves around the league from one night of hockey alone. It only happens against the Flyers, and Bryz can't be expected to make any difficult saves.
Don't feel bad, he ignored my post asking where he ranks the Flyers in terms of team defense this year / whether he thinks this is one of the worst defensive teams since the 1st lockout.

He has also ignored me in the past when I asked him to rank Bryzgalov against other goalies.

In general, anytime anyone makes a decent point against Bryzgalov that BP1974 doesn't have a comeback for and/or asks BP1974 to compare Bryzgalov to other goalies on the overall body of their work, he shuts down or responds on a tangent of how Bryzgalov played really well on this 2:00 penalty kill or in this one isolated game and how we should really be blaming the team's effort, etc.

I think somewhere in there he knows Bryzgalov isn't a good goalie and doesn't measure up with other goalies around the league, he just can't admit it publicly for whatever reason.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:24 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
I wish to god these Bryz defenders could of watched Jets vs Cats tonight. Paves made more massive saves tonight tHan Bryz has in a month. He and Markstrom were the reasons their teams earned points tonight. The idea that goalies don't have to stop chances when their team gives up great chances is ****ing stupid.
thats funny cause i just watched a panthers game and looked to me like markstrom singlehandedly lost them the game against the capitals. couldn't stop a puck. first shot of the game. then again a second later. and who ever said bryzgalov doesn't have to make huge saves? he does and he does. he's just not the reason our team loses games. thats the big argument here. to me the big difference between the "defenders" and the "haters" (i guess) is that money thing. he supposed to do this cause he gets paid that. that is true but i feel like people are pretty much saying well we pay him over 5 million a year he should be able to win us a cup regardless of what the rest of the team does. like they shouldn't even have to show up. he gets paid to stop em all.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:25 PM
  #678
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Wow, the voting totals are pretty skewed...

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:30 PM
  #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Radivojevic View Post
BP1974 conveniently ignored my post providing video evidence of 30+ big saves around the league from one night of hockey alone. It only happens against the Flyers, and Bryz can't be expected to make any difficult saves.
you went crazy makin a point no one denies. we all watch hockey like lunatics. we all know teams have defensive breakdowns that make the highlights and i see bryzgalov make lots of great saves. nobody really cares cause we've been losin lately. is that bill and ted?

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:34 PM
  #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
earlier in the year, Bryz was lights out & they were winning games in spite of not working for a full 60 minutes. he's dropped off a notch & thats not good enough to overcome
1. the poor Team D
2. the constant lack of effort that G & Hartnell continually point out

i don't think theres any big mystery here.
Love how this is Scott Hartnell, he of 9 games played, is more to blame than Bryz.

Also do you know what the difference between objective and subjective is? Subjective means it is a person's opinion, so "your eyes" are what would be considered a subjective measure. Objective is something backed by hard facts, figures, or statistics. So I'll ask again, do you have any objective measures that support Bryz? Because there are a whole lot of them that suggest he's played average to poorly not to mention the subjective opinions of a whole lot of people in this thread.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:42 PM
  #681
Totally Radivojevic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
you went crazy makin a point no one denies. we all watch hockey like lunatics. we all know teams have defensive breakdowns that make the highlights and i see bryzgalov make lots of great saves. nobody really cares cause we've been losin lately. is that bill and ted?
Yup!

I made a point to show a bunch of defensive breakdowns because BP74, among others over time, make it seem like the Flyers have an exponential amount of defensive breakdowns compared to other teams. I wanted to point out guys get open looks in every game, goalies have to come up big. Yes, the Flyers came out flat in the 2nd period of the Pittsburgh game, I won't deny that. But I hardly believe that they're a bunch of dogs who don't put forth an effort usually. Bryz is not good when guys are coming in alone, and they usually burn him. That's been a far bigger issue than the Flyers so called lack of effort.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:44 PM
  #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Radivojevic View Post
Haha. Didn't he say he plays goalie? Based on that, his username, and his Bryz bias, I guess the man just really loves the goaltender position.
I think it's just really a shame that he can't get it through his head what at least 75% (based on the poll) of Flyers fans are trying to say. We're not trying to say Bryz is the only problem on this team, we're not saying he's totally to blame for our horrendous record, nor are we trying to hate on Bryz, or at least I'm not because I think he seems like a nice enough guy.

All we're trying to say is that this whole Bryzgalov in Philadelphia thing isn't working out, not at his current cap hit, not for this level of play. He shares some of the blame for his sub-.900 save percentage, it's not all the defense. Elite goalies don't post sub-.900 save percentages in the modern NHL, regardless of what type of defense is being played in front of them.

I fear we're just pounding our heads against a brick wall though. If he would've been able to conceptualize these ideas, we'd be on thread #2 instead of #8 steaming towards #9.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:44 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
applying my standards of a "bad" goal, none of them were bad.
fair enough. you can say Bryz isn't "good enough" in general if you like, you can hate his contract, too, i can handle that.

but the flood of "Bryz sucks" posts after a game in which most people here agree that he didn't let in any bad goals seems kinda funny.

it just comes off as the "Philly Goalie Scapegoat" cop-out.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:48 PM
  #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Radivojevic View Post
BP1974 conveniently ignored my post providing video evidence of 30+ big saves around the league from one night of hockey alone. It only happens against the Flyers, and Bryz can't be expected to make any difficult saves.
what good is posting videos of other goalies: i learned 2 days ago, that when i posted videos of blunders by Quick, Luongo, Hank, Schnieder, Halak & Elliot nobody cared that every goalie lets in "bad goals" .... most of which were FAR worse than the ones Bryz let in.

and, when i posted identical goals let in by Bryz & Varly, the response was "another Bryz 'gem' " .... followed by: "that was a high % shot on Varly"

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:50 PM
  #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
I think it's just really a shame that he can't get it through his head what at least 75% (based on the poll) of Flyers fans are trying to say. We're not trying to say Bryz is the only problem on this team, we're not saying he's totally to blame for our horrendous record, nor are we trying to hate on Bryz, or at least I'm not because I think he seems like a nice enough guy.

All we're trying to say is that this whole Bryzgalov in Philadelphia thing isn't working out, not at his current cap hit, not for this level of play. He shares some of the blame for his sub-.900 save percentage, it's not all the defense. Elite goalies don't post sub-.900 save percentages in the modern NHL, regardless of what type of defense is being played in front of them.

I fear we're just pounding our heads against a brick wall though. If he would've been able to conceptualize these ideas, we'd be on thread #2 instead of #8 steaming towards #9.


Have to give him credit though, there's no quit in him. He definitely makes this thread interesting.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:54 PM
  #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
In general, anytime anyone makes a decent point against Bryzgalov that BP1974 doesn't have a comeback for
here's my "comeback": goaltending is not this team's problem.

1. Team D
2. the constant lack of effort that G & Hartnell continually point out


are this team's biggest issues.

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Old
03-08-2013, 11:55 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
All we're trying to say is that this whole Bryzgalov in Philadelphia thing isn't working out
who do you start vs BOS ?

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Old
03-09-2013, 12:06 AM
  #688
Totally Radivojevic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
here's my "comeback": goaltending is not this team's problem.

1. Team D
2. the constant lack of effort that G & Hartnell continually point out


are this team's biggest issues.
The same Team D that's giving up the 6th least shots per game and has the 2nd most shots blocked per game? Combine those stats with the videos showing great chances are given up league-wide on a nightly basis, you don't have much of an argument. Bryz's save percentage is near the bottom of the league because he's one of the least efficient goalies at stopping pucks. It's pretty simple.

(The biggest problem with our defense as a whole is outlet passes/starting the transition game IMO)

As for your second point... have you ever watched an athlete interview before? Cliche after cliche. "We have to give a better effort" and "We have to battle harder" are two of the most standard issue answers ever. Do you really expect them to say "Yeah our goalie sucks" or single out anyone for that matter? Especially a goalie as mentally fragile as Bryz?

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Old
03-09-2013, 12:20 AM
  #689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
who do you start vs BOS ?
Boucher. He only gave up one goal against Pittsburgh and according to my eyes he didn't have a chance on it. 2 on 1 with Crosby and Kunitz? Come on, he had no chance on that. And he stepped up and bailed out the team the rest of the 3rd period. Think Boucher is pretty clearly capable. I'd go so far as to say he was the team MVP during the pitt game just because he didn't make any glaring, indefensible mistakes.

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Old
03-09-2013, 12:43 AM
  #690
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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
Boucher. He only gave up one goal against Pittsburgh and according to my eyes he didn't have a chance on it. 2 on 1 with Crosby and Kunitz? Come on, he had no chance on that. And he stepped up and bailed out the team the rest of the 3rd period. Think Boucher is pretty clearly capable. I'd go so far as to say he was the team MVP during the pitt game just because he didn't make any glaring, indefensible mistakes.
I don't know man... Looked pretty stoppable to me. All he had to do was slide across in butterfly and he had it. The shot was on the ice and from pretty far out if I recall correctly

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Old
03-09-2013, 01:07 AM
  #691
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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
Boucher. He only gave up one goal against Pittsburgh and according to my eyes he didn't have a chance on it. 2 on 1 with Crosby and Kunitz? Come on, he had no chance on that. And he stepped up and bailed out the team the rest of the 3rd period. Think Boucher is pretty clearly capable. I'd go so far as to say he was the team MVP during the pitt game just because he didn't make any glaring, indefensible mistakes.
Didn't have a chance? Don't know what goal you were watching.

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Old
03-09-2013, 01:13 AM
  #692
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Boucher at least looks like he somewhat belongs in the NHL even though now his best days are way behind him and we should have a more capable NHL backup. However, Leighton in that single appearance looked like a men's league goalie for 40 and 50 year olds. Heck I don't think the Flyers almuni team would want him...

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03-09-2013, 01:23 AM
  #693
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there arent many teams in the league where a goalie sporting a .899 save percentage would have some in their fanbase saying "hes awesome" and "hes the team MVP"
There is no doubt that team defense has been an issue. But Bryzgalov has not done his job since the beginning of February. the numbers dont lie.


Bryzgalov gives up more goals that are the result of deflections, perfect shots, poor team defense, screens then any goalie maybe in the history of the league. its quite amazing actually

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03-09-2013, 01:25 AM
  #694
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I voted no on this because for at least next year it doesn't look like a better option will be available. We will have one more chance to buy him out after that and will still have a better option with a better free agent crop coming in 2014. From what I can tell on cap geek the list of Goalie UFA'S under 35 is short, and not very good. Detroit will resign Howard. Maybe Smith? Emery from the Hawks? I guess i'm just saying I don't see an option that is a definitive upgrade at least in free agency.

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03-09-2013, 01:41 AM
  #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Boucher at least looks like he somewhat belongs in the NHL even though now his best days are way behind him and we should have a more capable NHL backup. However, Leighton in that single appearance looked like a men's league goalie for 40 and 50 year olds. Heck I don't think the Flyers almuni team would want him...
Funnily enough, Leighton was named first star of the game in tonight's Phantoms win.

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Old
03-09-2013, 01:47 AM
  #696
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Funnily enough, Leighton was named first star of the game in tonight's Phantoms win.
Good..he can stay down there. Maybe he can impress the alumni team.

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Old
03-09-2013, 02:21 AM
  #697
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Poll should have the possibility to select whether to buy him out now or after next season...

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Old
03-09-2013, 02:50 AM
  #698
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Originally Posted by CyborgLindros View Post
I voted no on this because for at least next year it doesn't look like a better option will be available. We will have one more chance to buy him out after that and will still have a better option with a better free agent crop coming in 2014. From what I can tell on cap geek the list of Goalie UFA'S under 35 is short, and not very good. Detroit will resign Howard. Maybe Smith? Emery from the Hawks? I guess i'm just saying I don't see an option that is a definitive upgrade at least in free agency.
Young guys. Bernier, Bishop, etc... I sure hope they don't try to solve goalie issues through free agency again if Bryz gets amnestied.

Bryzgalov doesn't need to be amnestied after this season unless he actually sucks so bad we'd rather have Boucher in net. Grab a quality back-up like Bishop to give him the 'Schneider' treatment and if the back-up steals the job and shows he can lead the team to success, then amnesty Bryz. Or, grab a young goalie and sign Elliot/Emery/random Euro to be the back-up if in the end the smartest move is to remove Bryz. Upgrade the defense and get some solid defensive forwards (Briere sucks unless in offensive zone, no 4th line center, team sucks at face-offs, etc.) and a new coach/system could easily turn it around for Bryzgalov also. I say fire Lavy before amnesty Bryz, but both could easily happen. You'd think amnestying Bryz will be the end of Holmgren...

1. Keep sucking and have playoffs look hopeless? Fire Lavy.
2. Miss playoffs, Bryz sucks to point of insanity? Fire Holmgren and amnesty Bryz.
3. Re-tool. Goaltender is #1 priority, defensive play is #2 priority, offense is fine. Puck mover needed though, however a true #1 elite puck mover might not be necessary if we build 'defense-by-committee' while Kimmo is still around. Young guy with potential could work (think Rundblad).

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Old
03-09-2013, 05:47 AM
  #699
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lol

31 to 11

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Old
03-09-2013, 07:55 AM
  #700
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bryz showed early that he can play well so i voted no. i think his numbers dropping fast has a lot to do with the fact that today will be his 24 game played in 50 days. that pretty much every other day. no goalie can be expected to play that much and perform well. plus i think we can all agree that his numbers aren't true indications of his play. Yes, as of late he has let in some nasty goals but I give him the benefit of the doubt cause honestly the team in front of him has not been good either. i'm not saying he doesn't deserve some blame just that there is plenty to go around (coaching staff, management, d-men and forwards).

there were plenty of games earlier in the season where bryz played well enough for a win but the team wasn't scoring but we all seem to forgotten about those. why is that more acceptable then have the scoring but no goaltending (even though i really can't put all of the blame on bryz as the defense has been shaky to say the least)? a few more wins and we'd be in contention for a playoff spot and bryz could get a break. that's just how it worked out this year cause of injuries, some slumping players/inconsistent offense, a condensed schedule and the fact that we don't have a competent backup.

my whole point is why amnesty him when there's no one better available, he's shown he can play well and you can give the situation another year to see how things work out before using an amnesty.

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