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NYT: Bargaining for Rights in Exchange for NHL in Olympics (UPD: Daly in Sochi)

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03-07-2013, 01:25 PM
  #201
Brodie
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the 2010 gold medal game, like the Miracle on Ice and the 2002 gold medal game, was a perfect storm not likely to be repeated any time soon. Using that to quantify the relative value of hockey to the Winter Olympics strikes me as silly... people watched the figure skating in Turin, they don't watch the hockey unless the teams playing and the time zone suit them.

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03-07-2013, 02:16 PM
  #202
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Which sport in the Turin and Nagano Olympics made the most money for the IOC, I wonder?

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03-07-2013, 02:32 PM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post

Canada just hosted not too long ago.... Just because Hockey Canada and USA Hockey never bid for the World Championships doesn't mean it's only a European event.

That's the thing about the IIHF, it's an INTERNATIONAL federation. It's not biased towards Europe like so many people like to think. Some countries just think they're too good to do things the rest of the world does. coughNHLcough
Times each country has hosted the IIHF World Championship:

Switzerland: 10
Sweden: 10
Czech Republic & Slovakia - 10 (8 as Czechoslovakia, 1 each as Czech Republic and Slovakia)
Germany: 8
Finland: 7
Austria: 7
USSR/Russia: 6
France: 4
Norway: 3
Italy: 3
USA: 3
Poland: 2
UK: 2
Belgium: 1
Latvia: 1
Yugoslavia: 1
Canada: 1

I don't see any bias here.


Last edited by tarheelhockey: 03-07-2013 at 02:41 PM. Reason: ...
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03-07-2013, 02:36 PM
  #204
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The League should warrant some rights but then it'll open a whole new can of worms with other leagues and unions and associations. This is chance to grow the game like never before. Believe it or not 2010 spiked a wave of growth of the game in Canada and the United States like never before. Just imagine what it can do for Russia and the European countries that'll witness these games all in prime time. Hopefully they solve these shenanigans and do what's right for the game.

The Olympics is sporting supremacy, athletes around the world work their whole lives for this moment, this one chance to put themselves and their nation to the forefront. No Stanley Cup, no World Cup can come close to the accomplishment of winning an Olympic Gold for your country.


Last edited by tarheelhockey: 03-07-2013 at 02:47 PM. Reason: Please avoid blanket statements about others.
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03-07-2013, 02:43 PM
  #205
Mr Kanadensisk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Times each country has hosted the IIHF World Championship:

Switzerland: 10
Sweden: 10
Czech Republic & Slovakia - 10 (8 as Czechoslovakia, 1 each as Czech Republic and Slovakia)
Germany: 8
Finland: 7
Austria: 7
USSR/Russia: 6
France: 4
Norway: 3
Italy: 3
USA: 3
Poland: 2
UK: 2
Belgium: 1
Latvia: 1
Yugoslavia: 1
Canada: 1

I don't see any bias here.
Technically 2 of the 3 times it was in the US was for the Olympics, where the IIHF had no say on the location.

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03-07-2013, 02:59 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
I really don't think the IOC cares if NHL players participate or not. It's the Olympic brand and it will do well regardless if it's NHL players or beer leaguers. Similarly, the IOC has no reason to care how much "risk and cost" there is to NHL teams.

I'll be very surprised if the IOC even takes the NHL's bargaining seriously. The NHL thinks it's a bigger deal than it is, it should be thankful that they have the Olympic stage to promote their product on and move on.
The Olympics does nothing for the NHL. It doesn't raise interest or awareness of the sport outside of 2 weeks every 4 years, a period the NHL gets nothing out of. If NHLers stopped going to the Olympics you can be damn sure that their TV deals will drop and that the IOC would literally lose millions while the NHL might even make more money that previously but at worst makes exactly the same.

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03-07-2013, 03:13 PM
  #207
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The IOC definitely cares and wants the NHL, unless of course they are that thick-headed that they believe it wont make a difference. There will be very little, if any, interest in hockey in the US and Canada without the NHL. Let me re-phrase, NBC will definitely care and if NBC gets pissed off, then they will come down on the IOC.

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03-07-2013, 05:25 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Other sports leagues would try to do the same and that is a path the IOC won't go on.
The big difference here with sports teams....

Hockey and basketball are the two big players here. Soccer doesnt have much of a leg to stand on because they already have in place certain age restrictions for Olympic competitors to protect its world cup.

In the winter Olympics Hockey is basically the only team sport (yes I know there are a few others). In the summer games there are many more team sports.

The other issue in play for Sochi...is game times for USA and Canada. They want to ensure those start times are reasonable for broadcast in north america.

Sochi is 9 hrs ahead of ET, 12 hrs ahead of Pacific time. This means they would like to have the game times for USA and Canada game start times to be around 6pm-10pm each time they play. That would include when the gold medal game is played.

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03-08-2013, 01:30 AM
  #209
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The 2010 olympic hockey final was one of the most exciting hockey games of my life and I hated crosby that day.

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03-08-2013, 03:35 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
The Olympics does nothing for the NHL.
Agree completely. Fasel & the NHL grow fat on NHL player participation while the league itself is shuttered. We dont see the "best hockey in the world" every 4yrs because the teams are thrown together in haste, innumerable picks controversial to begin with, no time to really gel. Alternatives simply got to be found. Unfortunate that the NHLPA cant see the forest for the tree's yet look to the myopic NHL for vision. Problem.

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03-08-2013, 07:41 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
The Olympics does nothing for the NHL. It doesn't raise interest or awareness of the sport outside of 2 weeks every 4 years, a period the NHL gets nothing out of. If NHLers stopped going to the Olympics you can be damn sure that their TV deals will drop and that the IOC would literally lose millions while the NHL might even make more money that previously but at worst makes exactly the same.
Utter bollocks. If you get 27 million people to watch the number 4 league in the US and thinks that didn't help pull the ratings in the SC final up a couple of months later, you're in denial.

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03-08-2013, 08:05 AM
  #212
patnyrnyg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
The big difference here with sports teams....

Hockey and basketball are the two big players here. Soccer doesnt have much of a leg to stand on because they already have in place certain age restrictions for Olympic competitors to protect its world cup.

In the winter Olympics Hockey is basically the only team sport (yes I know there are a few others). In the summer games there are many more team sports.

The other issue in play for Sochi...is game times for USA and Canada. They want to ensure those start times are reasonable for broadcast in north america.

Sochi is 9 hrs ahead of ET, 12 hrs ahead of Pacific time. This means they would like to have the game times for USA and Canada game start times to be around 6pm-10pm each time they play. That would include when the gold medal game is played.
More importantly, the NBA is not shutting down their season to go to the Olympics. Teams would have a much harder time stopping their players from going to the Olympics in the summer than the NHL would.

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03-08-2013, 09:07 AM
  #213
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I have basically given up on arguing about Olympic participation of the NHL with Americans. They keep on asking 'what's in it for the NHL' instead of 'what's best for hockey'. It probably has something to do with the fact that most fans are team supporters first and hockey fans second. Canadians have more of a feeling with the Olympic tournament, but somehow believe a World Cup of Hockey (or a Canada Cup) can deliver the same advantages for fans as Olympic hockey. Which is probably true in their own country, but certainly not world wide or in a majority of the bigger hockey nations.

Fact is that the Olympic games offer the only true global stage for hockey and that grassroots federations around the world get a big pay-out from the event. That may not help the NHL per sť, but certainly hockey.

But I get the distinct feeling that the NHL-participation is coming to an end due to the very negative attitude towards the Olympics in North America. I'm sure a tournament involving the best players from other leagues will offer a high standard tournament too and the final will still outdraw any other hockey game played around the world in the four year cycle.

It is not my preference, I want to see the best players involved in the tournament that matters most. But reality is that with so much negativity the end is probably inevitable. The business of the NHL and the NHL-supporters will kill off the participation and replace it by a tournament they will use to put more money in the coffers of the NHL and the NHLPA instead of national federations and grassroots hockey.

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03-08-2013, 09:12 AM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
The IOC definitely cares and wants the NHL, unless of course they are that thick-headed that they believe it wont make a difference. There will be very little, if any, interest in hockey in the US and Canada without the NHL. Let me re-phrase, NBC will definitely care and if NBC gets pissed off, then they will come down on the IOC.
Really? Is that a fact? How, exactly, would the lightweights at nbc 'come down' on the IOC?

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03-08-2013, 10:49 AM
  #215
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Unless the World Cup is getting cheques to the national hockey federations (which sounds like they have never done so), why prefer the World Cup to the Olympics/WHC? None of you are the 30 shareholders/NHLPA members so you won't benefit from the World Cup anyway.

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03-08-2013, 11:48 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
Unless the World Cup is getting cheques to the national hockey federations (which sounds like they have never done so), why prefer the World Cup to the Olympics/WHC? None of you are the 30 shareholders/NHLPA members so you won't benefit from the World Cup anyway.
Because the World Cup doesn't interrupt the NHL season and is much easier to ignore than Olympic hockey which is shoved down my thoat when I'm trying to enjoy the rest of the Olympics.

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03-08-2013, 05:50 PM
  #217
Eddy Livingstone
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Originally Posted by HamiltonFan View Post
Really? Is that a fact? How, exactly, would the lightweights at nbc 'come down' on the IOC?
Wishful thinking I suppose. It is far more likely NBC will be livid at the league they have given a long term contract to.

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03-08-2013, 06:03 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by HamiltonFan View Post
Really? Is that a fact? How, exactly, would the lightweights at nbc 'come down' on the IOC?
lightweights at NBC? How much is NBC paying for the broadcast rights in the US? Yeah, pretty sure they have a say with the IOC.

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03-08-2013, 06:22 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
The Olympics does nothing for the NHL. It doesn't raise interest or awareness of the sport outside of 2 weeks every 4 years, a period the NHL gets nothing out of.
And yet everyone I've met that has started following the NHL since 2010 did so because of the Olympics.... sure that is just a personal observation, but you are kidding yourself if you think the NHL gets nothing out of the premiere hockey event in the world.

20 Million people watched a round robin game in China in 2010. Just China. That's a lot of potential fans who could become interested in watching the sport at it's highest levels - including the NHL. That means more and better international TV deals for the NHL, more merchandise sales, and most of all, growth of the sport in large untapped markets that could have even bigger impact in future generations.

Quote:
If NHLers stopped going to the Olympics you can be damn sure that their TV deals will drop and that the IOC would literally lose millions
I highly doubt that. Even without NHLers, Olympic hockey will be the most watched hockey on the planet every 4 years. Hockey is only a tiny part of the Olympic brand anyway, and the lack of NHLers would have little to no effect on that brand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Times each country has hosted the IIHF World Championship:

Switzerland: 10
Sweden: 10
Czech Republic & Slovakia - 10 (8 as Czechoslovakia, 1 each as Czech Republic and Slovakia)
Germany: 8
Finland: 7
Austria: 7
USSR/Russia: 6
France: 4
Norway: 3
Italy: 3
USA: 3
Poland: 2
UK: 2
Belgium: 1
Latvia: 1
Yugoslavia: 1
Canada: 1

I don't see any bias here.
Good, because you shouldn't see any. Why would Canada host more often if they don't want to host? It's quite simple really, but don't let the facts get in the way of your delusions about the IIHF.

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03-08-2013, 06:39 PM
  #220
Brodie
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If it were true that the NHL gets nothing from the Olympics, they wouldn't need to recreate the entire thing on their terms as a World Cup. The truth is the NHL wants to have its cake and eat it, too.

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03-08-2013, 07:05 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
If it were true that the NHL gets nothing from the Olympics, they wouldn't need to recreate the entire thing on their terms as a World Cup. The truth is the NHL wants to have its cake and eat it, too.
Exactly. If the NHL were serious about pulling out of the Olympics, they would be pressuring the IIHF (as the Russians are already doing) to move the World Championships to February, when they would shut down for 2 weeks to allow NHLers to participate, which would completely defeat the whole purpose of withdrawing from the Olympics.

Bringing back the World Cup is simply a bluffing tactic. The World Cup failed for a reason, and the NHL has every vested interest in continuing to send players to the Olympics as they obviously see a benefit in international competition - especially a stage as big as the Olympics which could never be replicated.

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03-08-2013, 11:01 PM
  #222
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I don't suppose anyone has the US tv ratings(I think it was on ESPN) for the 2004 World Cup final?

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03-09-2013, 01:48 AM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Times each country has hosted the IIHF World Championship:

Switzerland: 10
Sweden: 10
Czech Republic & Slovakia - 10 (8 as Czechoslovakia, 1 each as Czech Republic and Slovakia)
Germany: 8
Finland: 7
Austria: 7
USSR/Russia: 6
France: 4
Norway: 3
Italy: 3
USA: 3
Poland: 2
UK: 2
Belgium: 1
Latvia: 1
Yugoslavia: 1
Canada: 1

I don't see any bias here.
You do realize that a country has to apply for hosting the IHWC, right? Canada's lack of interest in applying to host the tourney is hardly IIHF's/other countries fault.

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03-09-2013, 05:00 AM
  #224
Fish on The Sand
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Utter bollocks. If you get 27 million people to watch the number 4 league in the US and thinks that didn't help pull the ratings in the SC final up a couple of months later, you're in denial.
The fact that the NHL had 2 of its biggest markets head to head surely didn't impact that. How were the NHL ratings in the cup final the two years after that? How were the cup final ratings in 02? 03? 04? How about 06 or 07? Going by your logic (not that you have any) the Olympics are actually hurting ratings except for one season. Its quite obvious the Olympics has had zero benefit to the NHL. You're also limiting the scope to just the cup finals. How about the regular season, or the rest of the playoffs? There are two groups of people who watch the Olympics. People who are already hockey fans, and people who watch the Olympics. How many people follow swimming or track and field after the Olympics? Not many. The NHL sees a similar "increase".

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03-09-2013, 05:28 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
The fact that the NHL had 2 of its biggest markets head to head surely didn't impact that. How were the NHL ratings in the cup final the two years after that?
Pretty sure the ratings for the 2011 SCF were even higher than 2010... Perhaps because people saw the American team v.s. Canadian team matchup interesting after the Olympics? Who knows. Fact is we can't measure things like that. Similarly, comparing the ratings after 02 and 06 makes no sense at all because they had entirely different markets playing in those Stanley Cup Finals.

The only way comparing SCF ratings year by year would be measurable is if it was the same markets in the SCF every year to give us a control factor in our observations.

Quote:
Its quite obvious the Olympics has had zero benefit to the NHL.
It's also quite obvious why you don't work for the NHL. It doesn't take a whole lot of common sense to understand why the NHL would think having it's talent showcased in the biggest hockey event in the world would have positive effects.

Quote:
There are two groups of people who watch the Olympics. People who are already hockey fans, and people who watch the Olympics. How many people follow swimming or track and field after the Olympics? Not many. The NHL sees a similar "increase".
This argument is so ridiculous I don't even know where to begin, and sadly people keep repeating this garbage.

If you don't think non-Olympic swimming events featuring Michael Phelps or track events featuring Usain Bolt didn't receive far more attention than they would have otherwise, you are oblivious. People like stories and they like heroes. If an American falls in love with Ryan Miller's performance at the Olympics, and they figure out they can watch him practically every night in the NHL, why wouldn't they? (in fact, I know numerous people personally who did just that)

There are such a thing as casual fans who don't fall into either of your categories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
I don't suppose anyone has the US tv ratings(I think it was on ESPN) for the 2004 World Cup final?
I'm pretty sure at least a few people have to watch it for any ratings to actually register.

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