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Old
03-08-2013, 08:26 PM
  #526
Leafidelity
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I find the parallels between this and the Kadri threads a year ago around this time amusing.

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03-08-2013, 08:54 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
I find the parallels between this and the Kadri threads a year ago around this time amusing.
you'll find the parallels between the new kadri threads and the future gardiner threads even more amusing.

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03-08-2013, 09:34 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
I find the parallels between this and the Kadri threads a year ago around this time amusing.
Maybe we'd have been better served last season when Wilson wasn't a bonehead with Kadri, just like we might have a better team if we had Gardiner up this whole time.

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03-08-2013, 10:28 PM
  #529
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Jake Gardiner proves he's the best rookie defenseman last year...and now he's stuck in the AHL.

I hope people know we're winning DESPITE of Holzer and Kostka.

I like Fraser and hope he's going to stay here.
This. no offense, but kostka and Holzer belong on the bottom pairing.

Bring up Gards, and play liles/komi. Current defense lineup is ********

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03-08-2013, 10:35 PM
  #530
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Jake Gardiner proves he's the best rookie defenseman last year...and now he's stuck in the AHL.

I hope people know we're winning DESPITE of Holzer and Kostka.

I like Fraser and hope he's going to stay here.
Kostka at his best adds nothing to help the Leafs win, but is steady enough to make sure they don't lose on his watch. That's his upside. Holzer is just a big body, a bit of an upgrade on Luke Schenn's game last year, but still should be way down the totem pole compared to Gardiner.

Gardiner at his worst makes boneheaded defensive plays, but his upside is gamebreaking offense and a way superior transition game. Plus he's a big part of the future, so the choice seems clear...

Fraser is a nice role player who provides a ton of safe minutes, though is prone to getting cycled really hard, despite the puck staying out. I think we could lessen the minutes on him.

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03-09-2013, 12:09 AM
  #531
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Kostka at his best adds nothing to help the Leafs win, but is steady enough to make sure they don't lose on his watch. That's his upside. Holzer is just a big body, a bit of an upgrade on Luke Schenn's game last year, but still should be way down the totem pole compared to Gardiner.

Gardiner at his worst makes boneheaded defensive plays, but his upside is gamebreaking offense and a way superior transition game. Plus he's a big part of the future, so the choice seems clear...

Fraser is a nice role player who provides a ton of safe minutes, though is prone to getting cycled really hard, despite the puck staying out. I think we could lessen the minutes on him.

Is "safe minutes" the new hip term this year? I don't remember anyone saying Luke Schenn plays safe minutes his rookie year when everyone thought he was the next coming of Rod Langway. I guess we have the best depth in league because no other team has a 3rd liners that have 25 points or lead the league in +/-.

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03-09-2013, 12:13 AM
  #532
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Kostka at his best adds nothing to help the Leafs win, but is steady enough to make sure they don't lose on his watch. That's his upside. Holzer is just a big body, a bit of an upgrade on Luke Schenn's game last year, but still should be way down the totem pole compared to Gardiner.

Gardiner at his worst makes boneheaded defensive plays, but his upside is gamebreaking offense and a way superior transition game. Plus he's a big part of the future, so the choice seems clear...

Fraser is a nice role player who provides a ton of safe minutes, though is prone to getting cycled really hard, despite the puck staying out. I think we could lessen the minutes on him.
I just don't get the Leafs sometimes..you have a very talented player ready to play in the NHL and you give guys like Koskta and Holzer (who are both rookies at 25+) an opportunity.

I don't mind Kostka but Holzer with Phaneuf is just a terrible pairing, he's in way over his head.

Morgan Rielly will be lucky to make the team when he's 21.

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03-09-2013, 12:27 AM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Ash35 View Post
Is "safe minutes" the new hip term this year? I don't remember anyone saying Luke Schenn plays safe minutes his rookie year when everyone thought he was the next coming of Rod Langway. I guess we have the best depth in league because no other team has a 3rd liners that have 25 points or lead the league in +/-.
I had to laugh at that name Rod Langway. I still have his Upper Deck legend card. Well done for remembering him. You must be old as I am



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03-09-2013, 12:30 AM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Ash35 View Post
Is "safe minutes" the new hip term this year? I don't remember anyone saying Luke Schenn plays safe minutes his rookie year when everyone thought he was the next coming of Rod Langway. I guess we have the best depth in league because no other team has a 3rd liners that have 25 points or lead the league in +/-.
Schenn at his best was still playing Russian Roulette out there, so I'm thinking that's probably why safe was never associated with it. Actually, come to think of it, Fraser often looks shaky too, but the chamber always seems like it's empty...

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03-09-2013, 12:31 AM
  #535
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saw these kadri threads a year ago.

will not see these gardiner threads a year from now.

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03-09-2013, 12:32 AM
  #536
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Schenn at his best was still playing Russian Roulette out there, so I'm thinking that's probably why safe was never associated with it. Actually, come to think of it, Fraser often looks shaky too, but the chamber always seems like it's empty...
Schenn trade was just fantastic though..after the season he had, I didn't think there was a chance we could get a roster player back, let alone JvR. One of the few good things Burke did.

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03-09-2013, 12:33 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
I just don't get the Leafs sometimes..you have a very talented player ready to play in the NHL and you give guys like Koskta and Holzer (who are both rookies at 25+) an opportunity.

I don't mind Kostka but Holzer with Phaneuf is just a terrible pairing, he's in way over his head.

Morgan Rielly will be lucky to make the team when he's 21.
I kind of feel a wave of hopelessness come over me when I think of how they decided to go with less skill, less upside and less experience in Kostka and Holzer over Gardiner, ON PURPOSE. Maybe if they went on a Blackhawks style run, you wouldn't be able to question anything, but we're still anemic on the powerplay and let's face it, not that solid defensively all the time either, considering that Ottawa debacle.

I don't want to see Gardiner up here only after a long losing skid, but this is just irritating beyond belief. If you dump Lombardi and Connolly for Kadri to come up and succeed, that same principle should apply for Gardiner too.

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03-09-2013, 12:38 AM
  #538
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Schenn trade was just fantastic though..after the season he had, I didn't think there was a chance we could get a roster player back, let alone JvR. One of the few good things Burke did.
Yeah, really goes to show sometimes the Canada/Toronto hype train can go a long way towards pumping a player's tires. Schenn on average, to me, looks kinda like Holzer on a good night. Yet people were whispering 'franchise' before he even got here on the strength of the WJC.

I feel like Matt Stajan's another. Somehow he's making 3.5 Million a year? Guy's about as good as Dominic Moore...

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03-09-2013, 12:38 AM
  #539
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I kind of feel a wave of hopelessness come over me when I think of how they decided to go with less skill, less upside and less experience in Kostka and Holzer over Gardiner, ON PURPOSE. Maybe if they went on a Blackhawks style run, you wouldn't be able to question anything, but we're still anemic on the powerplay and let's face it, not that solid defensively all the time either, considering that Ottawa debacle.

I don't want to see Gardiner up here only after a long losing skid, but this is just irritating beyond belief. If you dump Lombardi and Connolly for Kadri to come up and succeed, that same principle should apply for Gardiner too.
well said.......well said.

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Old
03-09-2013, 01:27 AM
  #540
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Originally Posted by eyeron View Post
Striving to always be better is a winner's attitude. Something you're lacking.

I think Gardiner would be a benefit to this team because of his ability to get the puck out of the defensive zone and start offensive rushes, something this team lacks every game. How many shifts do the Leafs get hemmed in their own zone? Too many every game. Gardiner would immediately help this team improve.
Who said they weren't striving to get better? Maybe you think longterm, its better to develop 3-4 dmen than just giving Gardiner all their minutes, we will be better in the long run.

People just live game to game, just like people live day to day. Sometimes striving to be better takes more foresight. Thats just me though.

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Old
03-09-2013, 01:44 AM
  #541
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Who said they weren't striving to get better? Maybe you think longterm, its better to develop 3-4 dmen than just giving Gardiner all their minutes, we will be better in the long run.

People just live game to game, just like people live day to day. Sometimes striving to be better takes more foresight. Thats just me though.
Jake Gardiner logged 3rd in minutes among defenseman and his surprisingly effective and impressive rookie season were one of the lasting bright spots to an otherwise disappointing 11/12 season.

I understand he suffered a serious injury and that you want to develop other defenseman, but you don't do so at the expense of a player as promising and effective as Gardiner. He should be considered a big part of both our future and present. You bring him up and you instantly fill the #3 spot on our roster, and add sorely lacking mobility and offensive spark to our defensecore.

I've pondered this whole scenario number us times before and the conclusion I've reached is that Dave Non is simply biding time and showcasing his wealth of defenseman in anticipation of the approaching trade deadline. The most logical defenseman for Gardiner to eventually replace is Mike Kostka in my eyes. Move Gunnarsson back to playing with Phaneuf and reduce Holzer's minutes by putting him in the #4 slot beside Gardiner.

Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
Gardiner-Holzer
Fraser-Franson

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Old
03-09-2013, 01:50 AM
  #542
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Apparently my post was above your head. Why even respond to me?

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03-09-2013, 02:00 AM
  #543
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Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Apparently my post was above your head. Why even respond to me?
Really only the first paragraph was directed at you. It's one thing to develop your 27 and 25 year old rookie defenseman (Mike Kostka, Korbinian Holzer) in place of older, under performing and overpaid veterans (JM Liles, Mike Komisarek) . But to sit a proven dynamic 22 year old at their expense is just irresponsible.

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03-09-2013, 02:18 AM
  #544
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Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
Really only the first paragraph was directed at you. It's one thing to develop your 27 and 25 year old rookie defenseman (Mike Kostka, Korbinian Holzer) in place of older, under performing and overpaid veterans (JM Liles, Mike Komisarek) . But to sit a proven dynamic 22 year old at their expense is just irresponsible.
Just like when Anaheim was sitting on B. Ryan in the AHL?

To me its developing a team, not just a player. And we will get assets by the deadline for a d-man and Gardiner will be up. I see no problem in keeping a young player down in the AHL with Eakins. It certainly made Kadri better off.

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03-09-2013, 02:22 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
The most logical defenseman for Gardiner to eventually replace is Mike Kostka in my eyes. Move Gunnarsson back to playing with Phaneuf and reduce Holzer's minutes by putting him in the #4 slot beside Gardiner.

Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
Gardiner-Holzer
Fraser-Franson
Carlyle doesn't switch defensemens side, so Kostka isn't even an option. It's going to be one of Phaneuf, Gunnarsson or Fraser. I think the choice for this season is pretty obvious.

Nonis is either waiting to get a return on a defenseman or he's waiting till the deadline passes when we can bring up as many players as we want. My guess is we'll see Gardiner up after April 3rd.

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03-09-2013, 03:15 AM
  #546
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
Carlyle doesn't switch defensemens side, so Kostka isn't even an option. It's going to be one of Phaneuf, Gunnarsson or Fraser. I think the choice for this season is pretty obvious.

Nonis is either waiting to get a return on a defenseman or he's waiting till the deadline passes when we can bring up as many players as we want. My guess is we'll see Gardiner up after April 3rd.
We're playing quite well without Gardiner. I understand that he's probably the second best D, but we need to be careful. Concussions are pretty serious.

I think he'd replace Gunnars who could be shipped off to acquire some who could anchor the shut down line. Grabovski could then play with Kessel. I don't we going to able to find someone like #1C like Eric Staal, Jeff Carter, or even Patrik Berglund ( Blues are weak at centre).

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03-09-2013, 06:33 AM
  #547
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Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
We're playing quite well without Gardiner. I understand that he's probably the second best D, but we need to be careful. Concussions are pretty serious.

I think he'd replace Gunnars who could be shipped off to acquire some who could anchor the shut down line. Grabovski could then play with Kessel. I don't we going to able to find someone like #1C like Eric Staal, Jeff Carter, or even Patrik Berglund ( Blues are weak at centre).
The Leafs aren't actually playing that well defensively, though. The thing is we're lucky to be banking points, but we weren't exactly air tight against the Islanders, Montreal or Ottawa, even though we won 2 of the 3.

Also, the PP and transition game hasn't been fantastic either.

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03-09-2013, 08:02 AM
  #548
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Numbers game implies players with similar skill sets and abilities. Gardiner is way better and the fact that the Leafs are keeping inferior players in the line-up is a joke. I don't care what the excuse du jour is, fix it. Play the best line-up you have. If Gardiner is not in the plans because RC thinks that Holzer and Kostka provide a better skill set, either fire RC or trade Gardiner for someone that improves the line-up. I'm tired of watching B players

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03-09-2013, 08:48 AM
  #549
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I was watching the Ducks last night. On one play Souray carried the pick out of his own end with speed into the opposition zone. Nice play kinda miss seeing that with the leafs.

Free Gardiner!

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03-09-2013, 08:52 AM
  #550
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They got killed on the forecheck in those 3 games. Nonis needs to clean up the roster. Enough is enough.

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