Quote:
Originally Posted by TriCycleDriveBy
My emphasis on changing the top line and putting Bailey on it isn't to benefit Tavares as much as it is to benefit Bailey. He's no producing and I think he should be put in a spot where he'd excel and be able to produce. Tavares doesn't need Bailey, but Bailey needs someone to facilitate to and Okposo isn't it. I don't think Bailey needs to be with Tavares only, but he does need to be with someone good. Unfortunately the Isles don't have anybody else right now.
I agree with the line combinations being poor, but I disagree with your assessment of Martin. Having a quick release has gotten him how many goals in his career? It's not as if he doesn't have any opportunities, he just doesn't take advantage of them most of the time. Also, having played with Stamkos in juniors is nice but I don't think that's a fair assessment of what he would do in the NHL when being put in the same role. Juniors is filled with lesser talent and the players are capped on their age. In the NHL he'd be performing against the best in the world, including a lot of veterans that you simply don't have in juniors. I'm not saying he couldn't do it, I personally just don't think he would.
I'd be much happier with Martin going to the top line because he can battle. Gabner doesn't do much once he's in the offensive zone. So he's great for the breakouts and entries into the zone, but after that I don't see him doing much. I think his scoring would come from the same types of plays, so I don't see a need to move him to the top line.
Does Moulson produce as much if he's not on the top line? I'd say he doesn't, his production would reduce radically, especially since his ice time would also drop. You can't move him. I do agree that the lines need to be changed with an attempt to get more balanced scoring, but there are just glaring holes on the team and guys who either won't produce or can't produce without Tavares.
The fourth line is the best at cycling and controlling the puck in the opponents zone, but they don't have anyone to score. I'd be interested in doing a line with Cizikas and Bailey with possibly McDonald as a #2 line and dropping Nielsen down to the #3 with Grabner and someone else. I genuinely don't like Okposo and I don't like Reasoner at all and want him and Boulton to just go away. But if they are on this roster it's going to make it real difficult to get more balanced scoring and keep the lines alright defensively.
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We agree on bad line combos and on there being glaring holes in the team. As others have also mentioned, we disagree about the 5-on-5 worthiness of our top line. Matt Moulson has a skill that transfers to any line, namely, he reacts quickly in tight to the goalie and finishes. Matt Moulson also takes smart routes, he's just sluggish to accelerate and is one of the sloppiest skaters on the team. Matt Moulson only gets anywhere due to effort, and his stamina isn't that great. Once he has to start and stop, it's game over. Matt Moulson also has the worst checking form on the team. I'd like to say, that I actually don't hate Matt Moulson. I like him. He is what he is. I actually have no worries whatsoever that he will still pot goals away from John Tavares as long as the puck finds its way to the net.
Okposo has been dogging the puck as of late. We can't discount the impressive month JT had last year, the only month he was a plus player, in which KO was his linemate. Maybe it was lightning in a bottle, but I think it shows more of what JT's lines have been missing than proving that Okposo is our top line answer.
The reason why I mentioned Stamkos and Juniors is simply because Martin was a player who played in a top line role with an elite talent and played well. Even after Stamkos left, Martin was able to pot some goals. I'm not blind on his shot, he has a good release. He's also willing to take punishment in front of the net. I'm not asking for him to drop in 30 goals, but right now Boyes is pacing for 17-18. PAP didn't exactly destroy the goal records on JT's right side. I want a more balanced line where a guy can actually retrieve the puck other than JT.
Is Pascal Dupuis the most talented player on the Pens? You can build a line where the sum is greater than its parts. That has always been the case. It's even more the case when you have an elite player who simply needs other players who enhance what that elite player can do or make up for the smallest of flaws in their game.
Grabner has greatly improved without the puck. He's stronger on his skates. He's disruptive and gets to loose pucks quicker than anyone on the team. He doesn't need to be the guy to carry on a line with JT. He needs to be a guy who can get to loose pucks. Whether he finishes on breakaways or not, Grabner does finish more than most other players on this team (even if it's purely a numbers game.)
I know I'm not the only guy who sees how many times JT's line gets bogged down in the defensive end, or how often one of JT's linemates is slow to get to a loose puck, or how little of a chance JT's linemates have at battling 1-on-1. KO can battle 1-on-1 or even 1-on-2 on the boards and that is why he had some success last year with JT. It's pretty obvious that KO's offense is inconsistent, but he's been more like the player we expect him to be of late. Bailey also has been battling out there. Both of those players are superior on the defensive size of the puck than Moulson or Boyes. JT can score the goals. JT can hold the puck. He just needs
some help without the puck. Neither Moulson nor Boyes provide much other than a blocked lane or two from Moulson, and maybe a check every now and then from Boyes.
Cizikas, Bailey and McDonald is asking a lot of Casey Cizikas. You want to try Cizikas in a secondary scoring role, put him in between Boyes and Moulson. Casey goes hard to the net and gets back hard on the play. He's already solid enough on the draw as a young kid. His ability to score at the NHL level is yet to be determined. Bailey and Nielsen are both players that will give up the shot to pass even in a prime scoring area. Bailey has been better since he's been on the wing, but he's still pass-first. Nielsen just shies away from that area with the puck; he's more likely to go for a loose puck in a scrum than stay in the slot unless it's
completely open.
We have a lot of playmakers and very few players that drive hard to the net. In fact, we have very few players that can drive hard to anywhere that actually have enough skill.
Matt Martin has more skill than many are allowing for. I'm not asking him to be a 1st line talent. I'm asking for him to protect JT, dislodge players from the puck, and play hard on the defensive size of things. He had 7 goals as a 3rd/4th liner. I don't think 15 goals is out of the question. I also don't think he'd drag any player down on this team by being on their line. The reason why I suggest Grabner-JT-Martin is that is literally adds elements that JT has never had on his line - a true physical presence, and a separate winger that can actually skate up the and down the ice and get to loose pucks. JT is the guy who will hold the puck the most. When he doesn't have it, he'll actually have guys who can get the puck back in different ways.
It's not a perfect line. It's just working with what we have. Like I mentioned, there's a ton of different combos I could see working better than what we have; that goes for throughout the lineup after we change the top line. The goal should be the get the whole line performing well, not simply improving an individual player's performance. If the line is working, then the players are all contributing to some degree. I think Bailey can do more, but the major flaw on that line is Nielsen since there is no presence in front of the net and not a single player who gets shots to the net enough. Put Jeff Carter between Bailey and KO and you'd have a second line. Nielsen is the opposite of what we need there.
You're welcome to agree to disagree; I can literally justify every combo I created and mention the relative strengths and weaknesses of each one. I can also type fast and barrage everyone with walls of text as I deem necessary. You've been playfully warned.
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Mitch
