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03-09-2013, 01:45 AM
  #801
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before anyone else goes crazy again and declare him the best Habs D in history, here's a little perspective...

Quote:
Larry Robinson
Defense
Born Jun 2 1951 -- Winchester, ONT
Height 6.03 -- Weight 220

Selected by Montreal Canadiens round 2 #20 overall 1971 NHL Amateur Draft

--- Regular Season --- ---- Playoffs ----
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1969-70 Brockville Braves CJHL 39 22 29 51 74
1970-71 Kitchener Rangers OHA 61 12 39 51 65
1971-72 Nova Scotia Voyageurs AHL 74 10 14 24 54 15 2 10 12 31
1972-73 Nova Scotia Voyageurs AHL 38 6 33 39 33 -- -- -- -- --
1972-73 Montreal Canadiens NHL 36 2 4 6 20 11 1 4 5 9
1973-74 Montreal Canadiens NHL 78 6 20 26 66 6 0 1 1 26
1974-75 Montreal Canadiens NHL 80 14 47 61 76 11 0 4 4 27
1975-76 Montreal Canadiens NHL 80 10 30 40 59 13 3 3 6 10
1976-77 Montreal Canadiens NHL 77 19 66 85 45 14 2 10 12 12
1977-78 Montreal Canadiens NHL 80 13 52 65 39 15 4 17 21 6
1978-79 Montreal Canadiens NHL 67 16 45 61 33 16 6 9 15 8
1979-80 Montreal Canadiens NHL 72 14 61 75 39 10 0 4 4 2
1980-81 Montreal Canadiens NHL 65 12 38 50 37 3 0 1 1 2
1981-82 Montreal Canadiens NHL 71 12 47 59 41 5 0 1 1 8
1982-83 Montreal Canadiens NHL 71 14 49 63 33 3 0 0 0 2
1983-84 Montreal Canadiens NHL 74 9 34 43 39 15 0 5 5 22
1984-85 Montreal Canadiens NHL 76 14 33 47 44 12 3 8 11 8
1985-86 Montreal Canadiens NHL 78 19 63 82 39 20 0 13 13 22
1986-87 Montreal Canadiens NHL 70 13 37 50 44 17 3 17 20 6
1987-88 Montreal Canadiens NHL 53 6 34 40 30 11 1 4 5 4
1988-89 Montreal Canadiens NHL 74 4 26 30 22 21 2 8 10 12
1989-90 Los Angeles Kings NHL 64 7 32 39 34 10 2 3 5 10
1990-91 Los Angeles Kings NHL 62 1 22 23 16 12 1 4 5 15
1991-92 Los Angeles Kings NHL 56 3 10 13 37 2 0 0 0 0


1976-77 NHL James Norris Trophy
1977-78 NHL Conn Smythe Trophy
1979-80 NHL James Norris Trophy
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=4612

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03-09-2013, 01:47 AM
  #802
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Subban...the best dman in Habs' history.
(I removed/edited the ''for now'' part).

When is the last time we've had such a complete dman?
Chelios? (defensive specialist with our Habs)
Desjardins? (more offensive than defensive)
Schneider? (offensive)
Malakhov (too inconsistent and his head was into ballet (google it if you don't believe me!).

Name me a dman that was/is better than Subban? (and please don't make me ****ing puke by naming that Russian dman we have who never ever showed up in the playoffs for us when it really counts...and there are 50 year-olds out there that skate faster and you know it). Subban will have his jersey retired as a Hab...unless some GM goes brain dead and screws it all up.

60's-70s...was too young to compare to 2013 NHL, but any footage I've seen...looks like old-timer games compared to today's nhl except they did way more grabbing/pulling/cheating with stick-work...and the goalies back in the 60s-70s, well...no comment.

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03-09-2013, 01:49 AM
  #803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Subban...the best dman in Habs' history.
(I removed/edited the ''for now'' part).

When is the last time we've had such a complete dman?
Chelios? (defensive specialist with our Habs)
Desjardins? (more offensive than defensive)
Schneider? (offensive)
Malakhov (too inconsistent and his head was into ballet (google it if you don't believe me!).

Name me a dman that was/is better than Subban? (and please don't make me ****ing puke by naming that Russian dman we have who never ever showed up in the playoffs for us when it really counts...and there are 50 year-olds out there that skate faster and you know it). Subban will have his jersey retired as a Hab...unless some GM goes brain dead and screws it all up.

60's-70s...was too young to compare to 2013 NHL
, but any footage I've seen...looks like old-timer games compared to today's nhl except they did way more grabbing/pulling/cheating with stick-work...and the goalies back in the 60s-70s, well...no comment.
stop doing it then, all you're showing is that you have no clue about the great Habs of the past.

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03-09-2013, 01:52 AM
  #804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Subban...the best dman in Habs' history.
(I removed/edited the ''for now'' part).

When is the last time we've had such a complete dman?
Chelios? (defensive specialist with our Habs)
Desjardins? (more offensive than defensive)
Schneider? (offensive)
Malakhov (too inconsistent and his head was into ballet (google it if you don't believe me!).

Name me a dman that was/is better than Subban? (and please don't make me ****ing puke by naming that Russian dman we have who never ever showed up in the playoffs for us when it really counts...and there are 50 year-olds out there that skate faster and you know it). Subban will have his jersey retired as a Hab...unless some GM goes brain dead and screws it all up.

60's-70s...was too young to compare to 2013 NHL, but any footage I've seen...looks like old-timer games compared to today's nhl except they did way more grabbing/pulling/cheating with stick-work...and the goalies back in the 60s-70s, well...no comment.
just so you know, Chelios had two 60+ pts seasons and one 70+ season in the seven years he's been a Habs...

so much for a defensive specialist.

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03-09-2013, 01:54 AM
  #805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
before anyone else goes crazy again and declare him the best Habs D in history, here's a little perspective...



http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=4612
No problem.

You think it's Robinson...I'm going with Subban.

You're the kind of person that likes to call people crazy when they don't agree with you. No problem. Just a matter of opinion. In the end...we all root for the same team.

And, simple...(in your opinion) Robinson is the best dman in history of Habs.
Subban is the best (in my opinion).

You're just one guy...one Hab fan...with his opinion.
I'm just one guy...one Hab fan...with his opinion.

Go Subban Go!!

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03-09-2013, 02:01 AM
  #806
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I do not believe in comparing players across different eras.

But... I think Subban can gave a HHOF career, have has number retired, and get Conn smyths.

Subban > Markov , no doubt about it.

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03-09-2013, 02:02 AM
  #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
No problem.

You think it's Robinson...I'm going with Subban.

You're the kind of person that likes to call people crazy when they don't agree with you. No problem. Just a matter of opinion. In the end...we all root for the same team.

And, simple...(in your opinion) Robinson is the best dman in history of Habs.
Subban is the best (in my opinion).

You're just one guy...one Hab fan...with his opinion.
I'm just one guy...one Hab fan...with his opinion.

Go Subban Go!!
disagreeing no problem, but declaring someone the best in history after two full seasons only ? you're asking for it, besides, never said you or anyone else were crazy.


difference is, you have NOTHING to back up your opinion.

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03-09-2013, 02:03 AM
  #808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
just so you know, Chelios had two 60+ pts seasons and one 70+ season in the seven years he's been a Habs...

so much for a defensive specialist.
He was more defensive throughout most of his career.
Not going to hijack this thread arguing like two macho guys trying to prove who is right.

You just don't like or appreciate Subban as much as I do...no problem. When the 2013 playoffs will be here...you can bring your Robinson posters to the bars and show your friends who you think is the best dman in the history of the Habs is, also...bring a Chelios poster and inform everyone about his 60 pt seasons.

Meanwhile...I'll appreciate Subban since we're nothing without him.
You can continue going on about Chelios and Robinson to prove you're right since smoke will probably come out of your ears if someone tries to prove you wrong, so that would be a waste of time.

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03-09-2013, 02:06 AM
  #809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
He was more defensive throughout most of his career.
Not going to hijack this thread arguing like two macho guys trying to prove who is right.

You just don't like or appreciate Subban as much as I do...no problem. When the 2013 playoffs will be here...you can bring your Robinson posters to the bars and show your friends who you think is the best dman in the history of the Habs is, also...bring a Chelios poster and inform everyone about his 60 pt seasons.

Meanwhile...I'll appreciate Subban since we're nothing without him.
You can continue going on about Chelios and Robinson to prove you're right since smoke will probably come out of your ears if someone tries to prove you wrong, so that would be a waste of time.
good thing cause you're clearly wrong. You label Chelios as a Habs defensive specialist and Desjardins an offensive defenseman, FACT is, Chelios was WAY more productive offensively than Desjardins.

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03-09-2013, 02:08 AM
  #810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
He was more defensive throughout most of his career.
Not going to hijack this thread arguing like two macho guys trying to prove who is right.

You just don't like or appreciate Subban as much as I do...no problem. When the 2013 playoffs will be here...you can bring your Robinson posters to the bars and show your friends who you think is the best dman in the history of the Habs is, also...bring a Chelios poster and inform everyone about his 60 pt seasons.

Meanwhile...I'll appreciate Subban since we're nothing without him.
You can continue going on about Chelios and Robinson to prove you're right since smoke will probably come out of your ears if someone tries to prove you wrong, so that would be a waste of time.
wrong.


come on now, nothing without him... be serious for a sec here.


wrong again.

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03-09-2013, 02:13 AM
  #811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I do not believe in comparing players across different eras.

But... I think Subban can gave a HHOF career, have has number retired, and get Conn smyths.

Subban > Markov , no doubt about it.
Blasphemy

Glad I didn't type that!!
For me...Markov is not in the same category as Subban.
One relies on a cerebral game to get his hefty paycheck...the other is a one in a million (warrior in regular season AND playoffs).

Markov skates like an old man with hemorrhoids ...it's good he's in position most of the time (almost), and relies on a cerebral game and not speed since he has ZERO speed (but I do like his accurate shot and nice PP passes+ outlet passes). But, VERY glad Markov is staying healthy...knock on wood...and glad we finally have the chance to see Subban and Markov in the lineup on a regular basis (knowck on wood)...and still want to see if he can deliver the goods when it counts (real season)...but first he has to stay healthy.

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03-09-2013, 02:16 AM
  #812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
before anyone else goes crazy again and declare him the best Habs D in history, here's a little perspective...
I was just about to but then you posted those Larry Robertson stats and now I'm stumped. I mean the numbers look okay but the game was really different back then - lots of goals scoring so I don't know if I trust those numbers. Also you never know how they fudged the stats to make a player look good or not, there wasn't an internet back then anyway, no way to record stats safely.

So let's call it even and say that Subban is the best D in habs history of the modern era (1960-2013) and Robertson the best habs D (if you can even call him that, the positions were so much difference) in the old era whenever he played.

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03-09-2013, 02:18 AM
  #813
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I was just about to but then you posted those Larry Robertson stats and now I'm stumped. I mean the numbers look okay but the game was really different back then - lots of goals scoring so I don't know if I trust those numbers. Also you never know how they fudged the stats to make a player look good or not, there wasn't an internet back then anyway, no way to record stats safely.
seriously...

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03-09-2013, 02:21 AM
  #814
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
seriously...
I edited my post so you can understand my point better, I think this is a conversation worth having and I thank you for bringing it up.

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03-09-2013, 02:21 AM
  #815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I was just about to but then you posted those Larry Robertson stats and now I'm stumped. I mean the numbers look okay but the game was really different back then - lots of goals scoring so I don't know if I trust those numbers. Also you never know how they fudged the stats to make a player look good or not, there wasn't an internet back then anyway, no way to record stats safely.

So let's call it even and say that Subban is the best D in habs history of the modern era (1960-2013) and Robertson the best habs D (if you can even call him that, the positions were so much difference) in the old era whenever he played.
how about => Larry ROBINSON ?

Big Bird if you prefer.

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03-09-2013, 02:22 AM
  #816
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
And...Subban is a no.1 dman on EVERY team in the NHL...no doubt about that. Any doubts about that, well...you just don't deserve to see Subban in a Hab jersey (imho!).
I would trade Subban + the farm for a healthy Karlsson and I'm a huge fan of Subbans talent.

Also, people have a short memory. I remember the post lockout 05-06 season where it might have taken until January before a star forward scored on Markovs side even strength. He doesn't have the mobility he used to, but let's not discount years of elite level play because there's a shiny object in town (one that still has immaturity to his game, like Ovechkin did when he was the best winger in the game -> how is that turning out now that he has no enthousiasm anymore).

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03-09-2013, 02:23 AM
  #817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
wrong.


come on now, nothing without him... be serious for a sec here.


wrong again.
Tabarnouche! I don't want to stay here all night.
Yes! Without Subban we're nothing...Markov is always one game, one shift away from an injury...and then what? Trade deadline is over and we're going with Gorges, Diaz et compagnie...''we're nothing'' without Subban is going too far, but saying/writing we're in deep **** without Subban isn't. 'Cause a HOT Price in playoffs can carry us far...but I still want Subban there to help Price.

Subban is the best Habs' dman from betwen the 90s till now.
There.
If I'm wrong...that's just your opinion vs mine.
Forget I mentioned 60s-70s...Robinson,etc...
Different era, different hockey...those stats from the 60s-70s-80s...can't erally compare to late 90s stats till today...but that's another topic. Gotta go to bed soon to be fresh for Saturday night!!

Chelios vs Subban...Chelios was a defensive specialist for most of his career compared to Subban's overall defensive/offensive overall game. And his 60pts back then...today's Subban could get 120pts if Chelios had 60pts back then...and you know it. I'm projecting of course with Subban...what we're seeing from day 1 when he joined our Habs is just a little taste...he's a future Hall of Famer.
I want to see his 76 retired as a Hab.

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03-09-2013, 02:23 AM
  #818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
He was more defensive throughout most of his career.
Not going to hijack this thread arguing like two macho guys trying to prove who is right.

You just don't like or appreciate Subban as much as I do...no problem. When the 2013 playoffs will be here...you can bring your Robinson posters to the bars and show your friends who you think is the best dman in the history of the Habs is, also...bring a Chelios poster and inform everyone about his 60 pt seasons.

Meanwhile...I'll appreciate Subban since we're nothing without him.
You can continue going on about Chelios and Robinson to prove you're right since smoke will probably come out of your ears if someone tries to prove you wrong, so that would be a waste of time.
You are so ridculously wrong that it isn't even worth debating. You clearly know absolutely nothing about any d-man who isn't currently on the habs.

Subban hasn't even cracked 40 points in a season yet and isn't even leading his teams d-men in ice time and you think he is better than Robinson, Savard, Harvey, Chelios, Desjardins, Markov, Lapointe etc. He has been a healthy scratch in both of his first two seasons but he is the best d-man ever to play for the most successful NHL franchise in history........?

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03-09-2013, 02:23 AM
  #819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
how about => Larry ROBINSON ?

Big Bird if you prefer.
I don't follow?

Larry Robertsom's name was Big Bird?

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03-09-2013, 02:26 AM
  #820
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Anyone remember Oiler fans asking for Subban+3rd overall(Galchenyuk) for 1st overall(Yakupov). Man, it was nuts then, even more so now.

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03-09-2013, 02:26 AM
  #821
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Subban has the POTENTIAL to be one of the best d men in the league. i love him and i think he's great! But putting him in the same boat with Robinson and Chelios...... hopefully one day but as of now, NOT EVEN CLOSE.

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03-09-2013, 02:27 AM
  #822
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Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
He's right and he's wrong.

He's right in talking about Subbans all of his elite level plays, there are so many and no one takes the time to talk about them.

He's wrong in dismissing what Pierre Houde says, because Pierre Houde is absolutely right. Once he corrects a few things, he'll be a Norris caliber player, maybe no.2 in the league (though Seth Jones is coming). He won't ever be better than Karlsson, who's better at everything, but he might have the odd better season.

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03-09-2013, 02:27 AM
  #823
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I edited my post so you can understand my point better, I think this is a conversation worth having and I thank you for bringing it up.
well, even Guy Lapointe, who was also part of the modern era you described had multiple 50+pts seasons, and a few with 60 and 70+...

so, declaring Subban the best in history, well... you know.

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03-09-2013, 02:29 AM
  #824
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Originally Posted by 24rings View Post
Subban has the POTENTIAL to be one of the best d men in the league. i love him and i think he's great! But putting him in the same boat with Robinson and Chelios...... hopefully one day but as of now, NOT EVEN CLOSE.
thank you.

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03-09-2013, 02:31 AM
  #825
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Tabarnouche! I don't want to stay here all night.
Yes! Without Subban we're nothing...Markov is always one game, one shift away from an injury...and then what? Trade deadline is over and we're going with Gorges, Diaz et compagnie...''we're nothing'' without Subban is going too far, but saying/writing we're in deep **** without Subban isn't. 'Cause a HOT Price in playoffs can carry us far...but I still want Subban there to help Price.

Subban is the best Habs' dman from betwen the 90s till now.
There.
If I'm wrong...that's just your opinion vs mine.
Forget I mentioned 60s-70s...Robinson,etc...
Different era, different hockey...those stats from the 60s-70s-80s...can't erally compare to late 90s stats till today...but that's another topic. Gotta go to bed soon to be fresh for Saturday night!!

Chelios vs Subban...Chelios was a defensive specialist for most of his career compared to Subban's overall defensive/offensive overall game. And his 60pts back then...today's Subban could get 120pts if Chelios had 60pts back then...and you know it. I'm projecting of course with Subban...what we're seeing from day 1 when he joined our Habs is just a little taste...he's a future Hall of Famer.
I want to see his 76 retired as a Hab.
wrong.

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