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2013 Draft Discussion (Mar. 29 article, post #976)

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Old
03-09-2013, 08:58 AM
  #451
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I think it depends in the year. Last season the rumors were that the isles offered CLB their whole draft (every pick) to move up from 4th to 1st.

But i agree overall. You would think jones has played in the nhl already and is a top 5 defender.
Was that rumor ever verified to be true? I remember hearing that and thought they were crazy. Also wasn't it to move up only to number 2 because they liked Murray??

If we somehow get another 1st rounder I wouldn't mind throwing that in the mix to try to move up if we are forced to. Jones might be a pipedream, but Nurse/Pulock/Rissy and others could be had. Also if we are moving up, I would only trade that newly acquired 1st for a trade to move up into the top 3. If we are moving say from 8th to 6th, I say a 2nd rounder would do it.

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03-09-2013, 10:49 AM
  #452
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The Sedin trade was made many years ago. The Flyers also got into the top 4 for Fedetenko. The league and draft has changed. The NHL draft used to be on par with MLB draft as a teams pick would mature in obscurity for many years after his draft year. Now with the internet, the rise of the World Juniors, NHL Network, etc., fans can follow the picks more closely as well as players leading up to the draft. The league is also younger now as prospects make it to the NHL faster and have an impact. Add all those things up and the draft is an important tool for marketing a team. A team trades out of the top spot, they will have to explain passing on Jones, Drouin, or Makinnon to their fan base where before there was little care about prospects. Conversely, one of those guys can help sell tickets so a GM will have to get something in return to sell to their fan base to justify passing on one of them. The NHL is a gate driven league. Marketing is a big part of being a GM, especially in underdeveloped markets.

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03-09-2013, 12:28 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Rememeber guys when Brian Burke was on trying to acquire the Sedin twins he gave up a pair of 3rd rounders to move from 4th overall to 1st. I think we are over valuing the pick just a little here.

No one who has the #1 spot this year. will give up the chance to have Jones, to move back a few spots, and get a couple weak 3rds.

If you want jones, your going to pay for it.

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03-09-2013, 03:16 PM
  #454
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Flyers are 22 in the league, but have played more games. If you project pts/gm through 48 games, they are really tied for 3rd last in the league. At this stage, it might be better just continuing to suck and get a top end player in a strong draft.

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03-09-2013, 03:18 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Codith View Post
No one who has the #1 spot this year. will give up the chance to have Jones, to move back a few spots, and get a couple weak 3rds.

If you want jones, your going to pay for it.
I can guarantee you if the 1st overall is traded it will not get any where near the amount the main boards or anyone on here is proposing. I really don't think the team who holds the 1st overall will move it anyway.

You want to move a roster defender +Couts + multiple 1sts to move up to Seth Jones..... Why would any reasonable sane GM make that move?

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03-09-2013, 03:23 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Was that rumor ever verified to be true? I remember hearing that and thought they were crazy. Also wasn't it to move up only to number 2 because they liked Murray??

If we somehow get another 1st rounder I wouldn't mind throwing that in the mix to try to move up if we are forced to. Jones might be a pipedream, but Nurse/Pulock/Rissy and others could be had. Also if we are moving up, I would only trade that newly acquired 1st for a trade to move up into the top 3. If we are moving say from 8th to 6th, I say a 2nd rounder would do it.
I thought I remember a bunch of TSN guys saying it was.

You are right though it was 4th to 2nd.

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Old
03-09-2013, 03:29 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Codith View Post
No one who has the #1 spot this year. will give up the chance to have Jones, to move back a few spots, and get a couple weak 3rds.

If you want jones, your going to pay for it.
Not necessarily. If we get the #3 overall and Florida ends up w/ the #1 overall, it would make a ton of sense for Florida to trade back with us and acquire some extra picks / players.

Florida already has Gudbranson and Kulikov. They need dominant offensive players a lot more than they need Seth Jones IMO.

It really all depends on who is drafting #1 overall and where we are at. But if things progress like they are, I don't think we're much more than our 1st + Couturier away from nabbing Seth Jones and it's quite possible we don't even have to give up that much.

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03-09-2013, 03:31 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Flyers are 22 in the league, but have played more games. If you project pts/gm through 48 games, they are really tied for 3rd last in the league. At this stage, it might be better just continuing to suck and get a top end player in a strong draft.
If we lose to BUF tomorrow, we could realistically be last in the NHL standings by the end of the week. We have 2 games against NJ after this Buffalo game, and do you really have any confidence in us taking one against NJ? We've lost 6 straight to them.

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03-09-2013, 03:31 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Not necessarily. If we get the #3 overall and Florida ends up w/ the #1 overall, it would make a ton of sense for Florida to trade back with us and acquire some extra picks / players.

Florida already has Gudbranson and Kulikov. They need dominant offensive players a lot more than they need Seth Jones IMO.

It really all depends on who is drafting #1 overall and where we are at. But if things progress like they are, I don't think we're much more than our 1st + Couturier away from nabbing Seth Jones and it's quite possible we don't even have to give up that much.
Why would Florida trade back to #3 and risk losing out on a guy like Drouin?

They don't really need the extra picks. Their system is pretty good.

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03-09-2013, 03:36 PM
  #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Not necessarily. If we get the #3 overall and Florida ends up w/ the #1 overall, it would make a ton of sense for Florida to trade back with us and acquire some extra picks / players.

Florida already has Gudbranson and Kulikov. They need dominant offensive players a lot more than they need Seth Jones IMO.

It really all depends on who is drafting #1 overall and where we are at. But if things progress like they are, I don't think we're much more than our 1st + Couturier away from nabbing Seth Jones and it's quite possible we don't even have to give up that much.
I would not trade Couturier and a first for this year's first overall. I know Jones is good, but he has never played a professional game. He is definitely a solid prospect, but there is no such thing as sure thing. Since 1990 there have only been four defensemen taken first overall: Roman Hamrlik, Jovo, Bryan Berard, Chris Phillips, and Erik Johnson. I don't really know or remember the hype surrounding these players at the time, but if they were taken #1, it is safe to assume it is similar to that of Seth Jones.

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03-09-2013, 03:40 PM
  #461
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You need Kessel

He'd light it up in Philly, how about Scott Laughton and a 1st and a 2nd.

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03-09-2013, 03:41 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I would not trade Couturier and a first for this year's first overall. I know Jones is good, but he has never played a professional game. He is definitely a solid prospect, but there is no such thing as sure thing. Since 1990 there have only been four defensemen taken first overall: Roman Hamrlik, Jovo, Bryan Berard, Chris Phillips, and Erik Johnson. I don't really know or remember the hype surrounding these players at the time, but if they were taken #1, it is safe to assume it is similar to that of Seth Jones.
You know what happens when you assume.

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Old
03-09-2013, 03:51 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by FreeBird View Post
He'd light it up in Philly, how about Scott Laughton and a 1st and a 2nd.


Good one. If the first is in 2019, maybe if you take Laughton out. If you were asking for this year's first + the rest of that then

We're not Toronto, we wouldn't give that much up for a young Phil Kessel, let alone a Phil Kessel 1.5 years away from UFA status.

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03-09-2013, 04:10 PM
  #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Flyers are 22 in the league, but have played more games. If you project pts/gm through 48 games, they are really tied for 3rd last in the league. At this stage, it might be better just continuing to suck and get a top end player in a strong draft.
I really thought we were gelling and going to make the playoffs, but the Penguin loss ended any real chance for the playoffs. I am in a stink mode now, so we can get a top draft pick. I like what someone else suggested - if Florida had the #1 pick, I'd be really tempted to make a trade to get it and get Jones.

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03-09-2013, 04:11 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post


Good one. If the first is in 2019, maybe if you take Laughton out. If you were asking for this year's first + the rest of that then

We're not Toronto, we wouldn't give that much up for a young Phil Kessel, let alone a Phil Kessel 1.5 years away from UFA status.
Not sure why you're laughing.. I'd do that deal almost every day if we aren't in the top 7

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03-09-2013, 04:40 PM
  #466
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before you guys start

trading at the draft and trading for jones, man i like jones, like him a lot. but why dont you let our new gm-coach decide whom they want. the thing is, it is also going to be a good pick in round 2 for us. and if we want a certain somebody at mid 20s, we can trade for that pick and not pay a whole lot for it. it wouldnt cost us half an arm. maybe a few fingers.

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03-10-2013, 01:21 AM
  #467
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Not sure why you're laughing.. I'd do that deal almost every day if we aren't in the top 7
1. We're done this year, so Kessel for the rest of this year is essentially useless.

2. Kessel is an FA after next season, so there's no guarantee he signs here and if he does, it's likely for a price similar to other top wingers.

3. Kessel is soft and plays horrendous defense.

4. That first round pick is going to be top 10 easily. IMO it actually ends up being top 5. I'm fairly confident it ends up top 3 actually. If we lose to BUF today, there's an extremely high likelihood we're in last place by the end of the week after a home and home w/ NJ (who we've lost 6 straight to).

5. Toronto bought 5 years of Kessel @ a decent RFA price for 2 1sts and a 2nd. I'm not buying 1 useful year of Kessel for the equivalent of 2 1sts and a 2nd. Especially not given the way our #1 pick this year is trending.

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03-10-2013, 01:29 PM
  #468
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Flyers are currently 6th in Points per game. If the rates keep up, we are picking 5th or 6th depending on if the Capitals keep playing like they have been.

Might as well trade up at the draft

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03-10-2013, 01:32 PM
  #469
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Anybody else worried that the new lottery system is going to screw us out of a great pick?

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03-10-2013, 01:35 PM
  #470
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Originally Posted by LetsGoFlyers1825 View Post
Anybody else worried that the new lottery system is going to screw us out of a great pick?
It's not really new. Just every team has a chance to jump to 1 and after that, it goes by order

So even if we finish 5th and someone behind us wins the lottery, we just drop to 6th

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03-10-2013, 01:36 PM
  #471
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Anybody else worried that the new lottery system is going to screw us out of a great pick?
Oh it will, if possible. Just like it did in 2007.

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03-10-2013, 01:38 PM
  #472
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Anybody else worried that the new lottery system is going to screw us out of a great pick?
It screwed us the last time and that was more friendly to horrible teams.

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03-10-2013, 01:43 PM
  #473
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It's not really new. Just every team has a chance to jump to 1 and after that, it goes by order

So even if we finish 5th and someone behind us wins the lottery, we just drop to 6th
Oh wow, that is nowhere as bad as I thought it was. Thank you

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Oh it will, if possible. Just like it did in 2007.
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
It screwed us the last time and that was more friendly to horrible teams.
Exactly what I was fearing

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03-10-2013, 01:48 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
You know what happens when you assume.
So these guys weren't hyped as franchise defensemen?

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Old
03-10-2013, 02:01 PM
  #475
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It's not really new. Just every team has a chance to jump to 1 and after that, it goes by order

So even if we finish 5th and someone behind us wins the lottery, we just drop to 6th
Looking at the teams behind us. A bottom 3 is entirely conceivable.

I suspect we heat up when it matters least and finish with like a 12th pick. Worst case scenario.

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