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When will he anoint Kadri the top center on the team?

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Old
03-09-2013, 04:59 PM
  #26
Drew311
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Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
Chara was against him plenty,and this sheltered minutes theory is getting blown out of proportion. Its whats being said alot but in games he has been drawing attention of oppositions best d-pair for many games now.

(this is a general statement) People need to watch the games closer i'm thinkin.
Chara plays about 28 minutes a night and the Kessel line plays about 20 minutes. Of course Chara is going to play against other lines during the game.

Is there an actual example of the Kadri line being targeted primarily by another team's top pairing this season?

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03-09-2013, 05:00 PM
  #27
sangreale
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Leave Kadri where he is. Why put more pressure on the guy? They are getting great production out of that line and it should continue with Frattin coming back. Meanwhile in a few weeks the first couple of lines will get a boost when Lupul returns ... not to mention the 4th when Komarov is shifted down to it. That would be the perfect scenario for this group barring trade or injury.

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03-09-2013, 05:01 PM
  #28
MakeTheIronSing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
Lupul - Kadri - Kessel
JVR - Grabovski - Frattin
Kulemin - McClement - Komarov
McLaren - Goon - Orr
That 3rd line is a defensive black hole hahaha.

If this is a lineup for next year, I m hoping it contains Colborne and McClement can continue 4th line limited 5 on 5 so he can be saved for PK and final minutes of the 3rd

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03-09-2013, 05:04 PM
  #29
sangreale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
Chara was against him plenty,and this sheltered minutes theory is getting blown out of proportion. Its whats being said alot but in games he has been drawing attention of oppositions best d-pair for many games now.

(this is a general statement) People need to watch the games closer i'm thinkin.
You are wrong unless you count 2 or 3 minutes as significant. That's the way I remember it. Can point me to some proof other than a blind accusation that everyone else is wrong because you are the only one paying attention?

Thats what I'm thinking.

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03-09-2013, 05:05 PM
  #30
Drew311
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
That 3rd line is a defensive black hole hahaha.

If this is a lineup for next year, I m hoping it contains Colborne and McClement can continue 4th line limited 5 on 5 so he can be saved for PK and final minutes of the 3rd
Wut?

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03-09-2013, 05:06 PM
  #31
sangreale
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
That 3rd line is a defensive black hole hahaha.

If this is a lineup for next year, I m hoping it contains Colborne and McClement can continue 4th line limited 5 on 5 so he can be saved for PK and final minutes of the 3rd
You'll need a new coach. That is not how RC employs his lines and btw Van does the same thing.

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03-09-2013, 05:07 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
Putting all our top point getters on the same line would make defending the Leafs really easy. Having two lines that can produce is probably the Leafs biggest strength.
There is definately some strong points to that thinking 4sure. When you are a strong depth team though it is not a issue.We are still developing depth and need now to focus on scoring wingers or centers.Whatever makes the top 6 stronger is my position on that.

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03-09-2013, 05:13 PM
  #33
MakeTheIronSing
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offensive black hole excuse me

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03-09-2013, 05:14 PM
  #34
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He's earned the right to at least start next season on the top line to see how he does. Kadri has gotten better every year, so with some playoff experience (hopefully) and another summer of training with Gary Roberts under his belt, he should be stronger and a better player.
I think thats very fair/debatable thinking. Do you think he should start getting first power-play with Kessel/JVR for a sheltered type of look that way? Is Bozaks face-off success a determining factor to prevent it?

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03-09-2013, 05:20 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
I dont know...looking at the Leafs scoring leaders its pretty apparent to me who the Leafs #1C is.
That is what I was gonna say. Seems pretty obvious.



BUt when Lupul comes back we have to do something.

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03-09-2013, 05:20 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
Chara plays about 28 minutes a night and the Kessel line plays about 20 minutes. Of course Chara is going to play against other lines during the game.

Is there an actual example of the Kadri line being targeted primarily by another team's top pairing this season?
Not really bro, just my observances of teams matching their best against him on many occasions in the last couple weeks. He's not Carlyles moose at dusk any longer,and he can't hide him behind a shadow anymore.

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03-09-2013, 05:24 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
offensive black hole excuse me
And what if it had LUpul or JVR on the 3rd line?

Then we roll 3 lines that can score.

We would have a 4th line of McLaren/Orr - McClement/Steckel - Komarov/Kulemin

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03-09-2013, 05:24 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by sangreale View Post
You are wrong unless you count 2 or 3 minutes as significant. That's the way I remember it. Can point me to some proof other than a blind accusation that everyone else is wrong because you are the only one paying attention?

Thats what I'm thinking.
I'm not here to accuse or make bad with anyone,but i will just say i will watch tonight how the pens match against him to lend some facts to the issue with no bias as to the outcome.

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03-09-2013, 05:24 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
Not really bro, just my observances of teams matching their best against him on many occasions in the last couple weeks. He's not Carlyles moose at dusk any longer,and he can't hide him behind a shadow anymore.
If that's' the case with Frattin back now, teams will have an even greater dilemma when Lupul returns.

Why is it necessary to up the ante with this kid. Leave well enough alone?

At any rate RC has no intention of putting him under that pressure. H

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03-09-2013, 05:25 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by sangreale View Post
You are wrong unless you count 2 or 3 minutes as significant. That's the way I remember it. Can point me to some proof other than a blind accusation that everyone else is wrong because you are the only one paying attention?

Thats what I'm thinking.
Can you proove it was 2 or 3 minutes is what i'm thinkin. just kidding.

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03-09-2013, 05:27 PM
  #41
sangreale
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I'm not here to accuse or make bad with anyone,but i will just say i will watch tonight how the pens match against him to lend some facts to the issue with no bias as to the outcome.
That is fair enough. And this should be interesting because the Pens is not the same team that lost to the Leafs earlier on. Did you see that goal by Gino? Yikes.

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03-09-2013, 05:29 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
Can you proove it was 2 or 3 minutes is what i'm thinkin. just kidding.
Yes I can. In my own mind.

Which leads me to one of the greatest lines of all times by Groucho Marx.

Who are you going to believe ... me or your own eyes?

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03-09-2013, 05:29 PM
  #43
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When he can win closer to half of his faceoffs against top-line centres.

Kadri has succeeded on the back of being sheltered by great team depth. He is the first Leafs prospect who is handled legitimately in the style of the Detroit Red Wings development process. Lots of AHL seasoning, and then sheltered by great NHL depth.

Can we just be happy that we're finally following a successful template for developing players?

Let's hoard all of the depth we can at all positions. It's how we're 7th in the league in point %.

The Leafs really are mimicking the organisation with the most success in the past 20 years.

You can really observe the linematching in the spread between the highest rated (Fraser, +17) and lowest (Phaneuf, -10) +/-.

This isn't to say that Nasty Naz's success isn't his own. Everyone he plays with have seen their game elevated. He's one of the most rawly talented, creative and shifty centres in the game. We've always known that. But he's done it with the 10th highest, and negative, Corsi Relative QoC of Toronto forwards. (Nik Kulyomin faces the best) So he is doing it against markedly inferior players. And this is why we win: we can throw Nazem Kadri against 2nd pairing defencemen and 3rd forward line players. .

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03-09-2013, 05:30 PM
  #44
Drew311
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
offensive black hole excuse me
That 3rd line is about keeping puck out of our own net, which I'm sure they'd be pretty effective at doing. In our top six every player would have minimum 20 goal potential. That's a pretty good mix.

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03-09-2013, 05:34 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by sangreale View Post
Yes I can. In my own mind.

Which leads me to one of the greatest lines of all times by Groucho Marx.

Who are you going to believe ... me or your own eyes?
LOL.true or what.

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03-09-2013, 05:35 PM
  #46
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Dont fix something that isnt broken.

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03-09-2013, 05:39 PM
  #47
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When he can win closer to half of his faceoffs against top-line centres.

Kadri has succeeded on the back of being sheltered by great team depth. He is the first Leafs prospect who is handled legitimately in the style of the Detroit Red Wings development process. Lots of AHL seasoning, and then sheltered by great NHL depth.

Can we just be happy that we're finally following a successful template for developing players?

Let's hoard all of the depth we can at all positions. It's how we're 7th in the league in point %.

The Leafs really are mimicking the organisation with the most success in the past 20 years.

You can really observe the linematching in the spread between the highest rated (Fraser, +17) and lowest (Phaneuf, -10) +/-.

This isn't to say that Nasty Naz's success isn't his own. Everyone he plays with have seen their game elevated. He's one of the most rawly talented, creative and shifty centres in the game. We've always known that. But he's done it with the 10th highest, and negative, Corsi Relative QoC of Toronto forwards. (Nik Kulyomin faces the best) So he is doing it against markedly inferior players. And this is why we win: we can throw Nazem Kadri against 2nd pairing defencemen and 3rd forward line players. .
Incidentally, Kulyomin has the 2nd highest Corsi Relative Quality of Competition in the league for players >= 10GP at 2.144, just shy of Pavel Datsyuk's 2.229. Grabosky is 4th.

Compare this to last year, where Kulyomin was 74th in the league at 0.856 and Grabovski was 118th. They were 171/172 the year Kulyomin scored all of those goals.

This tells us two things:
  1. Quality of competition matters - a lot. Good depth consequently works.
  2. Kolya & Misha have the biggest defensive responsibility in the league, and at -3/-4 really appear to be succeeding strongly in the role.

Dion Phaneuf is 9th in the league.

These guys are matched hard against high quality competition. Their performance has to be measured from that basis.

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03-09-2013, 05:40 PM
  #48
MakeTheIronSing
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Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
That 3rd line is about keeping puck out of our own net, which I'm sure they'd be pretty effective at doing. In our top six every player would have minimum 20 goal potential. That's a pretty good mix.
I think you make a good point.

But I don't think a line of

Kulemin McClement Komarov

is a good line because at some point, you need to generate offence to supplement your good defensive structure.
What's the point in causing a lot of turnovers and being able to clear the puck effectively if you just go down the ice and immediately have to backtrack to D again? I dunno, it may work, who knows unless you try I suppose.

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03-09-2013, 05:56 PM
  #49
Drew311
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
I think you make a good point.

But I don't think a line of

Kulemin McClement Komarov

is a good line because at some point, you need to generate offence to supplement your good defensive structure.
What's the point in causing a lot of turnovers and being able to clear the puck effectively if you just go down the ice and immediately have to backtrack to D again? I dunno, it may work, who knows unless you try I suppose.
Even if they just cycle the puck in the offensive zone and tire out the other team's top line, this would be a huge benefit. All of these guys are physical and would be an effective line IMO. I agree that there's not much pure offensive talent there, but they would definitely pot a few by going hard to the net and out-working the opposing line.

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03-09-2013, 06:04 PM
  #50
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I don't understand why people are in a rush to bump him up to the top line. Why concentrate all of our scoring on one line? Things seem to be working out quite well and our depth is one of the key factors influencing that.

JVR-Bozak-Kessel: 25 goals, 53 points
Mac-Kadri-Frattin: 24 goals, 48 points
Kulemin-Grabo-McClemment: 13 goals, 34 points

In terms of offense, we've essentially got a 1a and a 1b scoring line. Then Grabo's line provides excellent defensive play, while still chipping in offensively (though I would like to seem a bit more out of them, particularly Kulemin).

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