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Old
03-09-2013, 04:26 PM
  #26
Pablo Aimar
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Gilbert is a softish d-man who can move the puck pretty well. Schulz is a soft d-man who can't move the puck or do anything else. Awful trade. Schulz sucks.

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03-09-2013, 05:06 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitz View Post
I was willing to have a "wait and see" approach to that trade but it seems pretty clear to me that I'd rather have Gilbert now.
My thoughts as well.

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03-09-2013, 05:08 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Smid - Gilbert
Whitney - J Schultz
Fistric - Petry
Peckham - Potter

Whitney playing in the top four over Petry? He hasn't been great this season, but still a lot better then Ryan "Club foot" Whitney.

Rather see,
Smid-J. Schultz
Gilbert-Petry
Fistric-Peckham

If Sutton wan't hurt put him in Peckham's spot and the Oilers defense would be "decent".

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Old
03-09-2013, 06:03 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CROTT View Post
Whitney playing in the top four over Petry? He hasn't been great this season, but still a lot better then Ryan "Club foot" Whitney.

Rather see,
Smid-J. Schultz
Gilbert-Petry
Fistric-Peckham

If Sutton wan't hurt put him in Peckham's spot and the Oilers defense would be "decent".
sutton is a perfect 6th defenseman. we miss him badly.

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Old
03-09-2013, 06:06 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guymez View Post
Not much substance to this post.

The defence this season has been burdened by an over matched forward group.

When Gilbert was here the kids were not playing tough minutes like they are this year. That puts excessive pressure on the d core.

When Gilbert was here the team had 2 less rookies to deal with. That also puts pressure on the d core.

When you add the fact that Renney matched lines and Kruger doesn't that ramps up the burden on the d core even more.

This is an apples and oranges comparison in terms of the rosters/systems between this season and last season.
Yet Gilbert had the same or much worse overmatched forward units his ENTIRE time here and put a pretty solid body of work considering.

Its odd how the excuse applies to one but not Gilbert who NEVER had a stretch this bad in Oiler silks.

Plus he's a PMD that had an astonishing 45pts on a bad club. The list of D capable of that on a hopeless club is extremely short.

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03-09-2013, 06:11 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CROTT View Post
Whitney playing in the top four over Petry? He hasn't been great this season, but still a lot better then Ryan "Club foot" Whitney.

Rather see,
Smid-J. Schultz
Gilbert-Petry
Fistric-Peckham

If Sutton wan't hurt put him in Peckham's spot and the Oilers defense would be "decent".
Whitney playing with Schultz wouldn't be too bad. I know Whitney's been awful this season in his own end, but he provides a good outlet pass that might actually allow he and Schultz to utilize their offensive game.

Both Petry and Gilbert would deserve to be on their natural side. And having Petry switch may make him as ineffective as he has been taking top-pairing minutes.

And I agree. We are missing Sutton.

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03-09-2013, 06:12 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod View Post
Traded a #3 for a #5.
Exactly. A far superior Minny system disguised exactly how limited N Schultz is as a player. Its not a limited concept either. Both Jason Smith had multiple best career years here under MacT who devised a break out so simply they could even execute it. Frankly MacT would have a harder time sheltering N Schultz lame break out bangs up the boards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
Both players are soft and turnover machines. Gilbert at least could log big minutes and chip in offensively.
Gilbert, when playing with forwards even paying a modicum of attention to the designated breakout can hit a player fine. provided theres not close to 100ft of separation and opponents and sticks in between. Give Gilbert forwards supporting puck transition and he'll do it. N Schultz has a very limited transition game.

One is a PMD, the other is somebody that often needs a partner to find a way to get it out and when thats not immediately available he pulls the chute on a bang it up the boards. Count how many times in a game. New beer drinking game.

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Old
03-09-2013, 06:36 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post

Both Petry and Gilbert would deserve to be on their natural side. And having Petry switch may make him as ineffective as he has been taking top-pairing minutes.

And I agree. We are missing Sutton.
I would rather have the inexperienced J. Schultz and Petry play their natural side, and the Vet Gilbert play the left side. Not perfect but just working with what Tambelini could have had. The only advantage that N. Schultz has in this situation is that he is a LHD. Gilberts offence cancels out N. Schultz's (usually) better defensive play. But at the time of the trade I liked Gilbert's game, he was actually starting to hit.

Another thing I've noticed is what happened to Petry's physical game? He's producing offense but seams to have dropped the hitting side of his game. Not that he hit a lot, but every few games he atleast had a big hit. Krueger trying to micro manage?

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Old
03-09-2013, 06:38 PM
  #34
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Trade made no sense then, and makes even less sense now. N.Schultz is Steve Staios without the physical play and even less offensive ability. He can look like a complete fool for periods of time and freezes up when he makes mistakes.

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03-09-2013, 06:42 PM
  #35
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I didn't like the trade as I was one of the bigger Gilbert supporters, but any way you look at it, Petry is better than either of them, and we're better off with the more defensive (but worse overall) guy playing with J. Schultz. We traded a #4 who didn't fit, for a #5 that does. Meh

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03-09-2013, 06:48 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
I didn't like the trade as I was one of the bigger Gilbert supporters, but any way you look at it, Petry is better than either of them, and we're better off with the more defensive (but worse overall) guy playing with J. Schultz. We traded a #4 who didn't fit, for a #5 that does. Meh
On what basis is Petry a better D than Gilbert. This was the mistaken imo cast around last year but which time has revealed as a huge distortion. Nobody should feel bad though, the Org believed the same thing on very limited information and returns.

A year later we can't even find a D in the lineup to shelter petry from his numerous mistakes.

Not the least of which is the worst play I've seen by a D probably since Colin Campbell(former Oiler D and hopeless in the capacity) Happened in the last Chicago game, everybody knows which one, The whole league got a laugh. I'd still like to see Petry explain what he was doing on that play.

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Old
03-09-2013, 06:51 PM
  #37
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Well, we lost the trade.

Good job, Minny

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Old
03-09-2013, 06:58 PM
  #38
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Gilbert isn't very good but Nick Schultz is an absolute fraud who was sheltered by playing in Minnesota's "system."

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03-09-2013, 07:00 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
On what basis is Petry a better D than Gilbert. This was the mistaken imo cast around last year but which time has revealed as a huge distortion. Nobody should feel bad though, the Org believed the same thing on very limited information and returns.

A year later we can't even find a D in the lineup to shelter petry from his numerous mistakes.

Not the least of which is the worst play I've seen by a D probably since Colin Campbell(former Oiler D and hopeless in the capacity) Happened in the last Chicago game, everybody knows which one, The whole league got a laugh. I'd still like to see Petry explain what he was doing on that play.
I'm not saying Petry doesn't ever make mistakes, but he's a better skater, passer, shooter, and more physical than Gilbert. He's hardly been the reason our team sucks. But right, one play means a guy is a terrible dman. By your logic, Lidstrom was also terrible since Nuge made him look ridiculous on a play

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03-09-2013, 07:22 PM
  #40
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Another Gem of a trade for Tambellini. Somebody should compile a list of all his moves, can't be too many positives there.

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03-09-2013, 07:23 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guymez View Post
Not much substance to this post.

The defence this season has been burdened by an over matched forward group.

When Gilbert was here the kids were not playing tough minutes like they are this year. That puts excessive pressure on the d core.

When Gilbert was here the team had 2 less rookies to deal with. That also puts pressure on the d core.

When you add the fact that Renney matched lines and Kruger doesn't that ramps up the burden on the d core even more.

This is an apples and oranges comparison in terms of the rosters/systems between this season and last season.
Hahaha... so basically you're saying, " move along folks nothing to see here?" You're either a shultz apologist or a management sycophant. Which is it?

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03-09-2013, 08:28 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
I'm not saying Petry doesn't ever make mistakes, but he's a better skater, passer, shooter, and more physical than Gilbert. He's hardly been the reason our team sucks. But right, one play means a guy is a terrible dman. By your logic, Lidstrom was also terrible since Nuge made him look ridiculous on a play
That isn't my argument. I didn't need to make one. I was asking you why you assumed Petry was a better D.

Gilbert is a better PMD than Petry, a better offensive D than Petry, and as I alreadly stated in the thread put up numbers here that are damned good when one considers how bad the teams were that he was playing for.

Petry has basically been exposed this season, really a year he'd like to forget, and doesn't offer up any more hits than Gilbert currently and isn't playing a physical game.

Plus as I mentioned Gilbert was good enough to put up a 45pt season, something Petry could only dream of.

But all that said why do you believe Petry is better?

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03-09-2013, 08:42 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
That isn't my argument. I didn't need to make one. I was asking you why you assumed Petry was a better D.

Gilbert is a better PMD than Petry, a better offensive D than Petry, and as I alreadly stated in the thread put up numbers here that are damned good when one considers how bad the teams were that he was playing for.

Petry has basically been exposed this season, really a year he'd like to forget, and doesn't offer up any more hits than Gilbert currently and isn't playing a physical game.

Plus as I mentioned Gilbert was good enough to put up a 45pt season, something Petry could only dream of.

But all that said why do you believe Petry is better?
He's bigger, faster, stronger, 5 years younger, and had more points last year than Gilbert. If you want some stats to back it up,

Petry is 2nd on the Oilers in TOI (at 21:25), 3rd in hits (at 52), 3rd in blocked shots (at 39), and 1st in takeaways (at 18).

Gilbert is 3rd on the Wild in TOI (at 21:27), 13th on the team in hits (at 14), 2nd in blocked shots (at 32), and 13th in takeaways (at 5).

So, you tell me, are those extra 2 seconds worth all that compromise?

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Old
03-09-2013, 08:50 PM
  #44
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I liked the deal at the time because I was under the impression that we were filling a hole. Boy, I was wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
He's bigger, faster, stronger, 5 years younger, and had more points last year than Gilbert. If you want some stats to back it up,

Petry is 2nd on the Oilers in TOI (at 21:25), 3rd in hits (at 52), 3rd in blocked shots (at 39), and 1st in takeaways (at 18).

Gilbert is 3rd on the Wild in TOI (at 21:27), 13th on the team in hits (at 14), 2nd in blocked shots (at 32), and 13th in takeaways (at 5).

So, you tell me, are those extra 2 seconds worth all that compromise?
All you're really showing is that you can't just look at a stats page. We watched Gilbert for years and we've watched Petry this season. Petry hasn't been as good as Gilbert was. It's a fact.

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Old
03-09-2013, 08:55 PM
  #45
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is there a trade where tambo hasnt lost

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03-09-2013, 09:05 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Metamind View Post
is there a trade where tambo hasnt lost
Honestly, I don't know. Ignoring minor deals like the Vandermeer trade or Riley Nash for a 2nd, I don't think so.

Penner for Klefbom- Kings won the cup so you can't say they lost
Whitney for Visnovsky- Lost
Brodziak for a 4th and a 5th- I guess if Roy is our #1 five years from now it's a win.
Staios for a 3rd- This might be his best one.
Grebeshkov for a 2nd- Even
Cole for O'Sullivan- Terrible

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03-09-2013, 09:06 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
He's bigger, faster, stronger, 5 years younger, and had more points last year than Gilbert. If you want some stats to back it up,

Petry is 2nd on the Oilers in TOI (at 21:25), 3rd in hits (at 52), 3rd in blocked shots (at 39), and 1st in takeaways (at 18).

Gilbert is 3rd on the Wild in TOI (at 21:27), 13th on the team in hits (at 14), 2nd in blocked shots (at 32), and 13th in takeaways (at 5).

So, you tell me, are those extra 2 seconds worth all that compromise?
With all due respect this is one of the poorest apples and oranges arguments I've seen here.

Minny has Suter in the lineup who would beat all in any category here, there, or elsewhere. Minny also has a better complement of D period.

Next, Gilbert and Petry are identical sizes. Petry isn't stronger than Gilbert which is pretty much a fiction.

I'll give you that he's younger. But Gilbert had pitched 31, and 45pt seasons by the time he was Petry's age.

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Old
03-09-2013, 09:15 PM
  #48
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One of the issues with the trade is we moved a right handed d-man for a left handed one.

Our left handed depth at D:
Smid
Whitney
N. Schultz
Fistric
Peckham

Right handed depth at D:
Petry
J. Schultz
Potter

As it is now, we either have a player in Potter, who is absolutely not an NHL d-man in the lineup, or we force someone out of position playing the wrong side.

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Old
03-09-2013, 09:23 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
Honestly, I don't know. Ignoring minor deals like the Vandermeer trade or Riley Nash for a 2nd, I don't think so.

Penner for Klefbom- Kings won the cup so you can't say they lost
Whitney for Visnovsky- Lost
Brodziak for a 4th and a 5th- I guess if Roy is our #1 five years from now it's a win.
Staios for a 3rd- This might be his best one.
Grebeshkov for a 2nd- Even
Cole for O'Sullivan- Terrible
To be fair to the last trade.

It was Cole for O'Sullivan and a 2nd, the 2nd was then flipped for Kotalik.

Cole and Kotalik were both UFAs at the time and the Oilers were in a position that they were trying to push for the playoffs.

At the time of the trade the three players involved:
Cole 63GP 16G 27P
O'Sullivan 64 GP 14g 37P
Kotalik 56GP 13G 32P

Managed to pick up 2 players that at the time were outproducing Cole and one of them was a young guy coming off a 53 point season in his first full year.

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Old
03-09-2013, 09:31 PM
  #50
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To be fair to the last trade.

It was Cole for O'Sullivan and a 2nd, the 2nd was then flipped for Kotalik.

Cole and Kotalik were both UFAs at the time and the Oilers were in a position that they were trying to push for the playoffs.

At the time of the trade the three players involved:
Cole 63GP 16G 27P
O'Sullivan 64 GP 14g 37P
Kotalik 56GP 13G 32P

Managed to pick up 2 players that at the time were outproducing Cole and one of them was a young guy coming off a 53 point season in his first full year.
You'll remember me saying at the time that Kotalik was plain awful in Buffalo at the time of the trade and the poster boy for malcontents in Ruff's lineup. A shortlist actually but nonetheless. It was a purely pointless move. Kotalik had turned into a garbage hockey player through and through. Hated that deal. Cole was playing through post concussion. In the case of Cole, Stoll, and others the Oil made the mistake of dismissing player instead of realizing improvement in play would come in time. Plus we misused Cole the whole time he was here.

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