HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The ALL encompassing Rumors & Speculation Thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-09-2013, 05:48 PM
  #651
TheLegendkiller
Registered User
 
TheLegendkiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,607
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kammy View Post
miller + myers + stafford
for
bryz + briere + timonen

Buffalo would be insane to take that.

TheLegendkiller is offline  
Old
03-09-2013, 05:56 PM
  #652
healthyscratch
Registered User
 
healthyscratch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philly
Posts: 5,615
vCash: 633
Quote:
Originally Posted by kammy View Post
miller + myers + stafford
for
bryz + briere + timonen
This deal needs Vanek too.

healthyscratch is offline  
Old
03-09-2013, 06:01 PM
  #653
FlyingPhilly
Registered User
 
FlyingPhilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 1,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kammy View Post
miller + myers + stafford
for
bryz + briere + timonen
The phone would get hanged up so fast on Paul, he wouldn't be able to hear all the laughter coming from the other side.

FlyingPhilly is offline  
Old
03-09-2013, 06:38 PM
  #654
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 12,600
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
Talking about next year and what can come, I have put this together so leaves the table open for a lot of speculation.

I have bought out Pronger and Briere.... I don't think the team will buyout Bryz - for what it's worth.

I would like to keep Gagne but move him to 3rd line with Coots and Read. I'd also like to go after a TRUE sniper. And bring in a 4th line Faceoff machine. With a healthy Mez (if that exists) I think the D can perform...
Also need to sign a backup GK.


FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Simon Gagne ($2.000m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Tye McGinn ($0.775m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.800m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.700m)

DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Bruno Gervais ($0.825m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m) /

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
Buyout: Danny Briere ($0.000m)
LTIR: Chris Pronger ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $54,526,667; BONUSES: $2,800,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $12,573,333
I like this lineup if they can somehow get a top defenseman so everyone on D moves down a spot. Maybe Streit on a three-year deal.

Curufinwe is online now  
Old
03-09-2013, 06:42 PM
  #655
SolidSnakeUS
Registered User
 
SolidSnakeUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pipersville, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 33,020
vCash: 500
Briere + someone else to get Rundblad + Gordon.

Look like this for next season:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Simon Gagne ($2.000m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Tye McGinn ($0.775m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Boyd Gordon ($1.250m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.700m)
Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / David Rundblad ($1.500m)
Bruno Gervais ($0.825m) / Chris Pronger ($4.936m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Al Montoya ($0.750m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
Buyout: Danny Briere ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,862,381; BONUSES: $2,800,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $5,237,619

This is the off-season price too with Briere traded and Pronger not on LTIR yet.

SolidSnakeUS is online now  
Old
03-09-2013, 06:51 PM
  #656
Krishna
Registered User
 
Krishna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Canada
Posts: 82,228
vCash: 500
Why buyout briere if we can trade him?

Krishna is offline  
Old
03-09-2013, 06:52 PM
  #657
SolidSnakeUS
Registered User
 
SolidSnakeUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pipersville, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 33,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Why buyout briere if we can trade him?
It's a formality to show that he's not on the team full stop.

SolidSnakeUS is online now  
Old
03-09-2013, 07:11 PM
  #658
Broad Street Elite
Registered User
 
Broad Street Elite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Why buyout briere if we can trade him?
Clearly you try to trade Briere first, but if he refuses to wave, you have to amnesty him.

Broad Street Elite is offline  
Old
03-09-2013, 07:27 PM
  #659
PhilaFlyers
Registered User
 
PhilaFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 8,413
vCash: 500
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Corey Perry ($9.000m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)
Jakub Voracek ($4.250m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Scott Laughton ($1.138m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Tye McGinn ($0.775m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.801m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.594m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Luke Schenn ($3.600m) / David Rundblad ($3.000m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.851m) / Chris Pronger ($4.936m)
GOALTENDERS
Evgeni Nabokov ($2.750m)
Al Montoya ($0.701m)

OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
Buyout: Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
Buyout: Danny Briere ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,304,214; BONUSES: $3,012,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $8,286


Trade Briere + for Rundblad.


Last edited by PhilaFlyers: 03-09-2013 at 07:33 PM.
PhilaFlyers is offline  
Old
03-09-2013, 07:46 PM
  #660
sobrien
RAFFLCOPTER
 
sobrien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 7,403
vCash: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by kammy View Post
miller + myers + stafford
for
bryz + briere + timonen
That wouldn't even work in NHL video games

sobrien is offline  
Old
03-09-2013, 07:57 PM
  #661
Tripod
Registered User
 
Tripod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,698
vCash: 500
Briere and our 2nd to Boston for their 1st and 2nd + Niklas Svedberg.
Svedberg becomes our back-up next year
thoughts?

Tripod is offline  
Old
03-09-2013, 08:10 PM
  #662
Schenn Bros Pizza*
All-Star
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 776
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilaFlyers View Post
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Corey Perry ($9.000m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)
Jakub Voracek ($4.250m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Scott Laughton ($1.138m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Tye McGinn ($0.775m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.801m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.594m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Luke Schenn ($3.600m) / David Rundblad ($3.000m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.851m) / Chris Pronger ($4.936m)
GOALTENDERS
Evgeni Nabokov ($2.750m)
Al Montoya ($0.701m)

OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
Buyout: Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
Buyout: Danny Briere ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,304,214; BONUSES: $3,012,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $8,286


Trade Briere + for Rundblad.
I'm sorry but you want Rundblad on our top pair????!?!??! Cmon

Schenn Bros Pizza* is offline  
Old
03-09-2013, 08:20 PM
  #663
bennysflyers16
Registered User
 
bennysflyers16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 20,135
vCash: 500
Hnic hot stove raved about college d man from Mighigan that will be sought after. Any info on him, I missed the name

bennysflyers16 is offline  
Old
03-09-2013, 08:29 PM
  #664
FLYguy3911
Registered User
 
FLYguy3911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 8,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Hnic hot stove raved about college d man from Mighigan that will be sought after. Any info on him, I missed the name
Western Michigan?

Dan Dekeyser

FLYguy3911 is offline  
Old
03-09-2013, 08:31 PM
  #665
TheLegendkiller
Registered User
 
TheLegendkiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,607
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilaFlyers View Post
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Corey Perry ($9.000m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)
Jakub Voracek ($4.250m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Scott Laughton ($1.138m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Tye McGinn ($0.775m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.801m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.594m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Luke Schenn ($3.600m) / David Rundblad ($3.000m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.851m) / Chris Pronger ($4.936m)
GOALTENDERS
Evgeni Nabokov ($2.750m)
Al Montoya ($0.701m)

OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
Buyout: Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
Buyout: Danny Briere ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,304,214; BONUSES: $3,012,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $8,286


Trade Briere + for Rundblad.

Let's not get Cory Perry. Plus, theres no reason for him to leave top ranked Anaheim to come to last place Philly.

TheLegendkiller is offline  
Old
03-09-2013, 08:36 PM
  #666
bennysflyers16
Registered User
 
bennysflyers16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 20,135
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Western Michigan?

Dan Dekeyser
I think that's him. 6'3 and looked liked he could skate.

bennysflyers16 is offline  
Old
03-09-2013, 08:37 PM
  #667
bennysflyers16
Registered User
 
bennysflyers16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 20,135
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
I think that's him. 6'3 and looked liked he could skate.
Anyone know anything about him ?

bennysflyers16 is offline  
Old
03-09-2013, 11:17 PM
  #668
BernieParent
Registered User
 
BernieParent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Just out of curiosity, what makes you think Voracek is playing over his head? He's only 23 years old, it's fairly normal for a player not to break out until he's 23, see Giroux, Claude; he went from 16-31-47 during his age 22 season to 25-51-76 in his age 23 season. If you look up North to Toronto, you'll see another 23/24 year old from the same draft as Voracek that we "gave up on" breaking out: James Van Riemsdyk. And if you look over to Edmonton, Sam Gagner, another top 10 pick from the same draft is breaking out.

Jake Voracek was always expected to be this kind of dynamic player, as proven by his top 10 selection in the draft, it just took a little longer than some would have liked to develop.

At the end of the day, Jake may end up being better than Bobby Ryan, he may end up being roughly the same, and he may end up being the slightly lesser player. Who knows? The kicker for me in this whole discussion is that the trade you proposed wasn't Voracek for Ryan, it was Voracek + 1st for Ryan, a 1st round pick which could easily be in the top 10 of one of the deepest drafts in recent memory.

You basically said that going to the deadline, no player other than Giroux should be untouchable and that no picks should be untouchable and then you proposed the Ryan trade. To me, that basically means that if Anaheim called you up tomorrow and said "Voracek + your 2013 1st for Ryan, deal?" you'd say yes. Is that true?

Because if it is, I don't even know what to say. Dealing our 1st round pick when it's become plainly obvious we aren't making the playoffs would be borderline insane and doing so with half a season left would be even more insane. With our remaining schedule, the potential to sell guys like Briere off at the deadline, etc. our positioning could get a whole lot worse. As things stand right now, if you order us by pt%, we're the 10th worst team in the NHL. If you project everyone's points forward to 24 games so they're all equal to us, we're roughly 1.2 points ahead of the 5th draft spot, which equals a 1 in 12 chance @ Seth Jones via the lottery (or we could realistically trade up for him).

There's no reason to be trading our 1st round draft pick right now; certainly not for the small (or negative) "upgrade" from Voracek to Ryan.
Apologies for not answering earlier; I was out of town. I stand by my assessment that Ryan is a much better player than Voracek. Even if you compare the points on equivalent age, Ryan still outscores Voracek. And remember, Voracek was a 7th overall pick in a very poor draft year, so that top 10 needs an asterisk.

As for my assessment that Voracek is playing over his head, it's mostly gut feeling, but also his productivity versus the general putridness of the club this season.

The 1st? You could rightly argue my proposal to include it in the deal, especially given where the Flyers look to be headed and how good the draft is this season. But questioning if Ryan = Voracek straight up is pretty myopic.

BernieParent is offline  
Old
03-09-2013, 11:33 PM
  #669
poneill27
Registered User
 
poneill27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Casterly Rock
Country: United States
Posts: 907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Western Michigan?

Dan Dekeyser
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/at...1&d=1362893415
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 220px-Danny_Deckchair_Poster.jpg‎ (20.9 KB, 27 views)

poneill27 is online now  
Old
03-10-2013, 12:32 AM
  #670
WeekendAtBernies
Registered User
 
WeekendAtBernies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Apologies for not answering earlier; I was out of town. I stand by my assessment that Ryan is a much better player than Voracek. Even if you compare the points on equivalent age, Ryan still outscores Voracek. And remember, Voracek was a 7th overall pick in a very poor draft year, so that top 10 needs an asterisk.

As for my assessment that Voracek is playing over his head, it's mostly gut feeling, but also his productivity versus the general putridness of the club this season.

The 1st? You could rightly argue my proposal to include it in the deal, especially given where the Flyers look to be headed and how good the draft is this season. But questioning if Ryan = Voracek straight up is pretty myopic.
No problem, real life always comes before discussing hockey on a message board.

I can't deny that if you compare the players @ a similar age, Ryan comes out on top. That's pretty clear. But it's close... a lot closer than you make it out to be. Ryan didn't play in the NHL till age 21, so if you start the comparison there, Voracek slightly edges Ryan @ age 21 (but Ryan played a partial season and it was his rookie year, while Voracek was in his 3rd full NHL season). Ryan blows Voracek out of the water @ age 22 AINEC but Voracek appears to be blowing Ryan out of the water @ age 23 AINEC.

Ryan<--------------------------->Voracek
Age 21: .217GPG/.435PPG<--------> .175GPG/.575PPG
Age 22:.484GPG/.891PPG<-------->.231GPG/.628PPG
Age 23:.432GPG/.790PPG<--------> .462GPG/1.12PPG

The thing is, in the case of many players who are 23 and under, when we use what they did in their age 19, 20, 21, 22, etc. seasons, we tend to overrate early bloomers and underrate late bloomers. Bobby Ryan was an early bloomer. He had arguably his best year in the league when he was 22; it was his 2nd year in the league and his 1st somewhat full season and he posted his best PPG and GPG season. At that time, many fans were projecting 40-40 every year type stuff from him. But it never happened. Ryan was a finished product @ age 22. He's been largely the same player since. He's a 30-30 guy; 35-35 in a great year, he never took that next step forward.

Voracek on the other hand is a late bloomer. He entered the league with a fantastic set of skills, but he never really put it all together and then at age 23, boom, he broke-out in a gigantic way. He's yet to prove he can sustain this, but he certainly passes the eye test, his shooting % isn't outrageous or anything close to it, there's no real reason other than your "gut instinct" to think this is a fluke. The reason why people tend to downgrade Voracek is because he was up competing in a man's league and putting up roughly 50 points per season @ the age of 19, 20, and 21 instead of dominating juniors for 2 years and then dominating the AHL for 1/2 a year like Ryan before getting the call. You can blame the Blue Jackets for that IMO, but you can't hold it against the player. Voracek's stats would look a lot better if you wipe away his age 19 and age 20 seasons and replace them with a >100 point junior season and 1/2 a season of PPG play in the AHL.

Just for kicks and giggles btw, if we were to do a similar comparison of Giroux's age 21, 22, and 23 seasons to Voracek and Ryan, we'd find that Ryan > Voracek > Giroux. Now aren't you glad we didn't pull the trigger on a Giroux + 1st for Ryan trade a couple years ago?

The bottom line is that while Ryan likely holds the ever so slightly higher value right now due to his history of production, there's certainly an argument to be made that Voracek will end up being the better player. And regardless of what you think about either player, the difference in value between the two is not a 1st round pick as you stated in your original post. Especially when that 1st has a very legit chance of being in the top 5 and perhaps landing us one of Jones, Drouin, or MacKinnon.


Last edited by WeekendAtBernies: 03-10-2013 at 12:39 AM.
WeekendAtBernies is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 10:21 AM
  #671
FLYERSFAN18
Registered User
 
FLYERSFAN18's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 2,068
vCash: 500
I wouldn't mind trading for Brian Campbell if Florida would take on about 3 million of that caphit for the duration of his contract (not sure if this can be done). He obviously wouldn't solve our need for a #1 guy, but he would instantly become the best puck mover on our d and at about a 4 mil cap hit would be great value

FLYERSFAN18 is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 11:31 AM
  #672
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 15,547
vCash: 500
I just saw on twitter that the Blackhawks are going to be in some cap trouble most likely next year and the possibility of buying out Marian Hossa exists. Now that it a player I wouldn't mind being on giroux's wing for a few years

Prongo is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 11:32 AM
  #673
FLYERSFAN18
Registered User
 
FLYERSFAN18's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 2,068
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I just saw on twitter that the Blackhawks are going to be in some cap trouble most likely next year and the possibility of buying out Marian Hossa exists. Now that it a player I wouldn't mind being on giroux's wing for a few years
I wonder how much money he would be working for considering he would still be getting paid by Chicago?

FLYERSFAN18 is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 12:10 PM
  #674
dawkins121
Registered User
 
dawkins121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I just saw on twitter that the Blackhawks are going to be in some cap trouble most likely next year and the possibility of buying out Marian Hossa exists. Now that it a player I wouldn't mind being on giroux's wing for a few years
30+ year old free agent winger at open market value doesn't seem like a bidding war we should be getting involved in. Our top 4 highest cap hits among forwards next year will be Briere, Hartnell, Voracek, and Simmonds... all top 6 wingers.

dawkins121 is offline  
Old
03-10-2013, 12:53 PM
  #675
Blackhawkswincup
Tornado Warning
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 118,231
vCash: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I just saw on twitter that the Blackhawks are going to be in some cap trouble most likely next year and the possibility of buying out Marian Hossa exists. Now that it a player I wouldn't mind being on giroux's wing for a few years
Hawks can buy out Olesz and will be fine (Moving MOnty/Frolik opens up more room if needed)

+ Bolland/Hjalmarsson will be entering final year of there deals and with system stocked with solid role player type prospects the Hawks should be fine longterm as well

Blackhawkswincup is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:47 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.