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03-09-2013, 10:39 PM
  #901
LandofLincoln
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
I remember when people were pencilling Hjalmersson in at 2.25 mil.
Cap is going down and Leddy is not likely to receive an offer sheet. Doug Wilson played the Blackhawks like a champion. Although, I wouldn't be completely shocked if Leddy received an offer sheet. I just don't think that happens. He is worth a 1st and 3rd and the Hawks would match a 3.5m offer sheet.

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03-09-2013, 10:52 PM
  #902
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I don't think Leddy is thought of as good or valuable as Hammer was right after the Cup win.

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03-09-2013, 11:11 PM
  #903
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Leddy isn't worth more than Subban, and shouldn't get a shade over 2.5, unless it's for 3+yrs, then I only go to 2.75.

Kruger isn't worth more than 1.5, and is replaceable with a cheaper player if need be. No one is offer sheeting Kruger, play hard ball.

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03-09-2013, 11:32 PM
  #904
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I don't think Leddy is thought of as good or valuable as Hammer was right after the Cup win.
Wait 3 months

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Old
03-09-2013, 11:41 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Wait 3 months
I wouldn't be shocked if his stock rose a lot, maybe even surpassing where Hammer was in the summer of 2010. You might be right. Of course - the Hawks won't be in a cap crisis like they were back in 2010. So the incentive for another team to try to pluck an RFA is greatly diminished from where it was in 2010.

Finally - I also wouldn't be shocked if this is Nick Leddy's last year as a Blackhawk. A lot of different things can happen for sure.

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03-09-2013, 11:43 PM
  #906
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Leddy's last year as a Hawk? You're off your rocker man.

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03-09-2013, 11:46 PM
  #907
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Leddy's last year as a Hawk? You're off your rocker man.
I was't predicting it, just saying I wouldn't be shocked.

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03-09-2013, 11:53 PM
  #908
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Even if the Hawks could fit Stastny under the cap - he is not worth $6.6M. He had one very good year and got the huge contract and has not been close to good enough for that contract ever since. He's a good player - not a great player worth $6.6M. If the Hawks want to spend big bucks on a 2nd line center - they can get better value for the cost than Stastny.

Even if Bolland were to be part of the trade so the net difference in salary cap impact would be $3.2M (Stastny's $6.6M minus Bolland's $3.4M) - that net difference would allow the Hawks to resign Stalberg and have cap space left to help with other depth signings. I'd rather have Bolland and Stalberg and a little pocket change than have Stastny and need to use more cap space to fill Stalberg's roster spot.

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03-10-2013, 12:49 AM
  #909
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What do you guys think about a guy like Carter/Kesler? Or more generally in the $5M range? Assuming too that we trade Bolland or he leaves in FA... because I think if we hold onto Bolland it is with the expectation that he's the guy for 2C. Im intrigued by Carter specifically bc he's a shoot first guy... and I feel like that sort of player cold have a lot of success on this team.

Additionaly, it looks like 2014 could be a ridiculous year for free agency... Im really looking at SJ who will have to do something with Couture, Pavelski, Marleau, and Thornton... maybe a rights to Bolland for a rights to Pavelski sort of trade if they plan to keep Joe and Marleau.

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03-10-2013, 01:51 AM
  #910
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What do you guys think about a guy like Carter/Kesler? Or more generally in the $5M range? Assuming too that we trade Bolland or he leaves in FA... because I think if we hold onto Bolland it is with the expectation that he's the guy for 2C. Im intrigued by Carter specifically bc he's a shoot first guy... and I feel like that sort of player cold have a lot of success on this team.

Additionaly, it looks like 2014 could be a ridiculous year for free agency... Im really looking at SJ who will have to do something with Couture, Pavelski, Marleau, and Thornton... maybe a rights to Bolland for a rights to Pavelski sort of trade if they plan to keep Joe and Marleau.
Jeff Carter? He is under contract for the next decade and the top goal scorer on a contending team, how the hell do you propose we get him?

Kesler is similarly important to vancouver, I don't see them trading him. Particularly to the hawks.

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Old
03-10-2013, 12:20 PM
  #911
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I was't predicting it, just saying I wouldn't be shocked.
I would be.

Generally speaking and unrelated to this comment, I just don't think people fully see, appreciate, and fully know what this organization has in Nick Leddy.


Last edited by Blue Liner: 03-10-2013 at 12:39 PM.
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Old
03-10-2013, 12:53 PM
  #912
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and how they value Leddy... Bowman is high on him and will make sure he stays a long time

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03-10-2013, 01:47 PM
  #913
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2.8-3m is wayyy too much, and I like him.
2.8-3M is too much for, arguably, the best PMD on the team? Really?

So, let me get this straight.. You'd rather sign Leddy for 2 years, at 2.2M as opposed 3-4 years at 2.8-3M? You're so against giving him a few 100K more per year, that you'd rather go through another negotiation a couple years from now, where he actually will be (in all likelyhood) in a position to command 5M per year?

I don't get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Leddy isn't worth more than Subban, and shouldn't get a shade over 2.5, unless it's for 3+yrs, then I only go to 2.75.

Kruger isn't worth more than 1.5, and is replaceable with a cheaper player if need be. No one is offer sheeting Kruger, play hard ball.
He most certainly is. I don't get this board.

Kruger's on pace for 32 points over an 82 game season, playing mostly on the 4th line, and he's an integral part of one of the best PKs in the league. He averages the 4th most PK time on the team, 2nd among forwards and is out there in most key defensive situations.

There is not an argument to be made that suggests Kruger is worth anything less than 1.5M.

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Old
03-10-2013, 01:56 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Blue Liner View Post
I would be.

Generally speaking and unrelated to this comment, I just don't think people fully see, appreciate, and fully know what this organization has in Nick Leddy.
It's easy to sit back and say everyone is untradable and will be here forever. I get that Hawk fans don't like to see their favorite players go away. All of these guys have had a big part in this awesome start for the team.

But this is the real world where people want as much money as they can get and guys do get traded. What if Leddy gets unreasonable in his contract demands? Or at least unreasonable in the eyes of Stan bowman or Rocky Wirtz?

When you have a team that is tight to the cap, you have an up and coming 3rd pairing guy who may want a big raise and his agent has had shaky recent dealings (rumored anyway) with the Blackhawks (the Ryan Suter garbage) and you have a replacement in Rockford that has been turning heads and an surprise in his first season there. The possibility of the Hawks having to move in a different direction exists.

Don't take this post the wrong way. Leddy has been great this year and has been among the many pleasant surprises to me. But Adam Clendening (3 more assists last night) is sitting there and nearly NHL ready and there probably isn't a place for him on this team as long as Keith, Oduya and Leddy are here. With Leddy's contract coming up and the rumored history with his agent...that's why it's possible.

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03-10-2013, 02:02 PM
  #915
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Just have to look at March 21st , 1994 as an example of how a team made moves to improve themselves while #1 in NHL

The Rangers sent packing RW Mike Gartner and RW Tony Amonte in seperate deals

At time the stats of Amonte/Gartner

Gartner - 71 GP with 28 goals + 24 assists (52 pts)
Amonte - 72 GP with 16 goals + 22 assists (38 pts)

If Hawks feel they can improve there chances to win cup by moving a Dave Bolland or Viktor Stalberg type player then they should do it

Rangers in 94 didn't think they could win in playoffs with team they had despite being at top of league standings with 39-23-10 record at time

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03-10-2013, 02:08 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Just have to look at March 21st , 1994 as an example of how a team made moves to improve themselves while #1 in NHL

The Rangers sent packing RW Mike Gartner and RW Tony Amonte in seperate deals

At time the stats of Amonte/Gartner

Gartner - 71 GP with 28 goals + 24 assists (52 pts)
Amonte - 72 GP with 16 goals + 22 assists (38 pts)

If Hawks feel they can improve there chances to win cup by moving a Dave Bolland or Viktor Stalberg type player then they should do it

Rangers in 94 didn't think they could win in playoffs with team they had despite being at top of league standings with 39-23-10 record at time
There's a huge difference between thinking your team can't win in the playoffs and wanting to improve your team. In the Rangers case, it was the latter, not the former.

I'm pretty damn sure Hawks brass thinks this team, as is, can win in the playoffs.. but if they got a deal they couldn't refuse that would improve the team, I doubt they'd turn it down. That doesn't me they don't have confidence in the team currently.


Last edited by HockeySensible: 03-10-2013 at 02:13 PM.
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Old
03-10-2013, 02:16 PM
  #917
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If they think this team can win with one C who can win faceoffs they will be in for a shock

Also Hawks a Toews injury away from being out of it as contender because of the brutal depth at C

Bolland-Kruger-Shaw-Mayers = Worst C 1-4 in NHL

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Old
03-10-2013, 02:32 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
If they think this team can win with one C who can win faceoffs they will be in for a shock

Also Hawks a Toews injury away from being out of it as contender because of the brutal depth at C

Bolland-Kruger-Shaw-Mayers = Worst C 1-4 in NHL
Oh, look, it's the "They have to prepare for the inevitable Toews injury" argument again. Yay!

They'll just move Sharp to centre like they did in 2010 and 2011 if things aren't running smoothly in the playoffs or if Toews gets hurt.

Stalberg - Toews - Kane
Saad - Sharp - Hossa
Bickell - Bolland - Shaw
Carcillo - Kruger - Frolik

There. Now everyone's happy.

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Old
03-10-2013, 02:35 PM
  #919
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To be fair - pretty much every team in the NHL would be SOL if their top player was lost to injury.

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03-10-2013, 02:45 PM
  #920
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They haven't moved Sharp back to C for 2 years now ,, Its clearly wont be happening

Even with Bolland out they didnt' move Sharp into that spot nor last year when the team was failing with the Kane experiment

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03-10-2013, 02:48 PM
  #921
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They haven't moved Sharp back to C for 2 years now ,, Its clearly wont be happening

Even with Bolland out they didnt' move Sharp into that spot nor last year when the team was failing with the Kane experiment
You're talking about a hypothetical, unlikely situation where this team goes to **** in the playoffs or Toews get injured. I provided a solution to said hypothetical, unlikely situation.

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03-10-2013, 02:59 PM
  #922
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Team has gone out in 1st round last 2 years ,, I dont think it is unreasonable to think it could happen again with most of the same team

And Toews missed large chunk of last year with concussion (His 2nd severe concussion)

I wouldn't say unlikely situations ,, Both are very possible

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03-10-2013, 03:11 PM
  #923
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Team has gone out in 1st round last 2 years ,, I dont think it is unreasonable to think it could happen again with most of the same team

And Toews missed large chunk of last year with concussion (His 2nd severe concussion)

I wouldn't say unlikely situations ,, Both are very possible
This team is completely different from the 2010-11 team and greatly improved from last years team. And even last years team wasn't bad, they just underperformed and Q had to stick it out with Brunette and O'Donnell for some strange reason.

If Toews goes down we're screwed either way. It won't matter. This team isn't winning a Cup without Toews, even if they got Stastny.. and if they did trade Bolland for Stastny, and Toews went down, the centre depth would be:

Stastny
Kruger
Shaw
Mayers

I don't see how that's much better. Stastny's better than Bolland, but after that, it's still not good enough to go deep into the playoffs.

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Old
03-10-2013, 05:54 PM
  #924
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It's easy to sit back and say everyone is untradable and will be here forever.I get that Hawk fans don't like to see their favorite players go away. All of these guys have had a big part in this awesome start for the team.

But this is the real world where people want as much money as they can get and guys do get traded. What if Leddy gets unreasonable in his contract demands? Or at least unreasonable in the eyes of Stan bowman or Rocky Wirtz?

When you have a team that is tight to the cap, you have an up and coming 3rd pairing guy who may want a big raise and his agent has had shaky recent dealings (rumored anyway) with the Blackhawks (the Ryan Suter garbage) and you have a replacement in Rockford that has been turning heads and an surprise in his first season there. The possibility of the Hawks having to move in a different direction exists.

Don't take this post the wrong way. Leddy has been great this year and has been among the many pleasant surprises to me. But Adam Clendening (3 more assists last night) is sitting there and nearly NHL ready and there probably isn't a place for him on this team as long as Keith, Oduya and Leddy are here. With Leddy's contract coming up and the rumored history with his agent...that's why it's possible.
I never once said, or have said, Leddy's untradable. Any player is tradable if the right deal is laid in front of you. I also have no notions of every player being able to stay here forever. I clearly know that is not possible if for no other reason than I watched a Cup winning team get more or less disassembled. He's also not my favorite player and I'm not even discussing this from a fan standpoint, I am from a hockey and logistical standpoint. Example being, I loved Brian Campbell from a fan standpoint but from a hockey standpoint I understood how bad his contract was and how moving it could help the team more long term even though as a fan I liked him. From a hockey standpoint, Leddy is a huge priority to do what you can to keep him around. Not to say others aren't important, but he's a much more rare and high commodity, in my opinion.

If his contact demands really are that outrageous and you can't find middle ground, then absolutely, you move on, unfortunately. I, nor anyone that I can see, is saying to make him the highest paid defenseman on this team or anything of the sort. Therein lies my personal view that I'd be shocked if he didn't remain with the team because I think both sides will find a way to get that done. If they can't, then color me shocked.

I don't know that we have a replacement in Rockford. I like Clendening but I don't know for certain he's a replacement for Leddy. No one does, he's never even played an NHL game yet and that's not a gamble I'd necessarily be willing to take in letting Leddy go with the notion there's an equal talent in Rockford. If Clendening does wind up being a similar talent, by all means kudos to the Hawks' staff and good for us as fans. I certainly am not saying he isn't, but I'm not ready to say that he is yet.

My simple statement was, personally, I would in fact be shocked if Nick Leddy wasn't a Blackhawk for more seasons going forward. Everything else was stuff I never said or ever intimated but will gladly address if brought up like in this case, anyway.

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03-10-2013, 06:35 PM
  #925
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Team could use some more toughness , C who can win a faceoff and a #2 C

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