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Trade Kessel?

View Poll Results: Should Phil Kessel be traded?
Yes 194 51.60%
No 182 48.40%
Voters: 376. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-09-2013, 11:30 PM
  #726
charliolemieux
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Originally Posted by anderson3133 View Post
Has anyone else noticed that the past couple of games Kessel has drove the net after going wide?

Also, he's drastically improving his "bag of tricks".

I loved the bank pass he made to himself today to get around the defender, his drive to the net, his lateral dekes, and he's been trying more one-timers.
Kessel is like an iceberg.

Only 10% of it is visible.

He is evolving and has a long way to go.

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03-09-2013, 11:33 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Kessel is like an iceberg.

Only 10% of it is visible.

He is evolving and has a long way to go.
Agreed. He's heating up and trying new things.

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03-09-2013, 11:34 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by KesselLooksLikeRadar View Post
I voted no before tonight's game because I know just how much of an elite player he is. Tonight just validated my opinion
He is elite against teams with no defense, like the Pens. This game means little for this poll.

Get a good, physical dman on his ass, and he'll pull out his vanishing act. He did drive to the net once tonight though, which was refreshing to see.

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03-09-2013, 11:39 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
He is elite against teams with no defense, like the Pens. This game means little for this poll.

Get a good, physical dman on his ass, and he'll pull out his vanishing act. He did drive to the net once tonight though, which was refreshing to see.
He did it against the Bruins too, despite being watched by Chara at all times.

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03-10-2013, 12:28 AM
  #730
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It was refreshing to see Kessel show up tonight, but as was stated earlier, he only tends to show up in games that are run 'n gun, whilst disappearing in tight checking games. Since Carlyle isn't a run 'n gun style coach, it's tough to see Kessel fitting into his system unless he can stop being so afraid of contact on the ice.

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Old
03-10-2013, 12:45 AM
  #731
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For Perry, sure. For anybody else, unless it is a massive overpayment, no. He gives us a dimension most other teams lack.

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03-10-2013, 04:02 AM
  #732
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Originally Posted by anderson3133 View Post
Agreed. He's heating up and trying new things.
Would he not start melting then?

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03-10-2013, 04:50 AM
  #733
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Originally Posted by buntek View Post
Easy Emily Dikinson.

Even the Kessel supporters have stated that if Perry were available, they'd prefer him over Phil. I'm guessing they probably watch hockey, where as you check the box scores before bed time.

If you don't think he's better, just by watching him play, and not simply using statistics, then you're a bigger homer than I thought.
I've watched the guy play. On the other hand, I'm certain most of other ones haven't. We're probably dealing with guys who largely watch the game at home. Heck, I've even met Anaheim fan point out that Getzlaf floats despite his great stature and physical game. You're obviously assigning attributes to his game that doesn't exist.

As I said before, he is nasty, but he can take bad penalties. On top of that, under Randy, he was blasted for not moving his feet. You're not getting a player that is all of sudden taking us to the Cup. I don't even think he's worth $8.4 million.

It's like we're trading Kessel for Pavel Datsyuk, or, better, Claude Giroux or Jonathan Toews. We are obviously thinking of different players here. Most elite players such as the Carters, Kovalchucks, Ovechkins, even Malkins aren't that complete. I would take Malkin or even Ovechkin over Kessel, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonsofPuppies View Post
It was refreshing to see Kessel show up tonight, but as was stated earlier, he only tends to show up in games that are run 'n gun, whilst disappearing in tight checking games. Since Carlyle isn't a run 'n gun style coach, it's tough to see Kessel fitting into his system unless he can stop being so afraid of contact on the ice.
How did Teemu Selanne fit in? Randy, even on Anaheim, would blast players if they under perform. Why isn't Kessel being blasted?

Point being, he just needs his own Andy McDonald. JVR does his job well, but someone else to add more traffic in the opposition zone. The reason why we don't see Grabs up is because he runs the shutdown line.


Last edited by The_Chosen_One: 03-10-2013 at 05:01 AM.
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Old
03-10-2013, 11:34 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
He is elite against teams with no defense, like the Pens. This game means little for this poll.

Get a good, physical dman on his ass, and he'll pull out his vanishing act. He did drive to the net once tonight though, which was refreshing to see.
Okay then, so, I'll say that this thread is all about who can we get who is better than Kessel (Or will be better than him) by trading him? You know that Anaheim fans wouldn't deal Perry for Kessel, so, realistically, for this guy who vanishes against physical d-men, who can we get that is an upgrade on him?

If we can't, then what is the point of just randomly trading a guy?

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Old
03-10-2013, 11:42 AM
  #735
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Voted no.

Hopefully his game is evolving, he's been playing 200 feet all year. Last night he was dynamite, and he is the offensive catalyst for whatever line he is on.

Our powerplay would also miss him dearly.

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03-10-2013, 12:50 PM
  #736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonsofPuppies View Post
It was refreshing to see Kessel show up tonight, but as was stated earlier, he only tends to show up in games that are run 'n gun, whilst disappearing in tight checking games. Since Carlyle isn't a run 'n gun style coach, it's tough to see Kessel fitting into his system unless he can stop being so afraid of contact on the ice.
Whats also refreshing is reading objective posts. I had a Kessel avatar for 3 years and even I can admit he has serious short-falls to his game. Its nice to have scoring depth though, that way Kessel can be given the minutes against teams he dominates and someone else can have those minutes against teams he cowers against.

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Old
03-10-2013, 03:15 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Whats also refreshing is reading objective posts. I had a Kessel avatar for 3 years and even I can admit he has serious short-falls to his game. Its nice to have scoring depth though, that way Kessel can be given the minutes against teams he dominates and someone else can have those minutes against teams he cowers against.
Quoted for truth.

Why trade the guy when it is not likely you will get an upgrade in return unless you trade him plus some of the bright future this club has?

When has it ever been a problem to have 3 lines that can score any given night? Sure Kessel may be overpaid after next season, but it hasn't happened yet. He is surely a part of the puzzle.

Boston obviously represents a matchup nightmare for him, but if you look at his career stats, there are only a few teams that he doesn't have a history of success against: Philly, Boston, Carolina (almost as bad as Boston) and Florida. Furthermore, in the last 3 seasons as a whole, Boston is the only team against which he has been consistently unproductive, so there is reason to believe that this may or may not change.

This is where the beauty of having 3 lines comes in. Phil Kessel should not be the only guy who is counted on to score goals, especially against a team like Boston. Let him be shadowed and shut down by Chara. The Leafs have proven that they can at least be competitive against any team in the league without his production. The rest of the team bears a responsibility to step it up too. And they don't have to face Big Z, so what is their excuse? Hockey is a team sport and without other players bringing their A game when Phil doesn't have his, there are never going to be more wins then losses.

I say keep the guy, hopefully he takes a hometown discount, and bring in more talent that can actually take advantage of the line mismatches that are created by having him be the focal point of other teams defenses. Like the way Kadri/Macarthur are doing right now. It certainly leads to more wins that way.

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Old
03-10-2013, 03:54 PM
  #738
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This thread is so dumb, I can't believe we're at page 30. Let's trade our top offensive player (has been for going on 4 seasons now)!

Why do you think the likes of Nazem Kadri, JVR, and Clarke MacArthur have been able to succeed so mightily this season? Not only is he an astute playmaker but Phil Kessel draws the vast majority of the opposition's defensive coverage thus creating significant space for his peers. You trade away Phil Kessel for any package that does not include a player the calibre of Kessel, watch the rest of our players significantly decrease. Even facing top defensive coverage he is able to hover around PPG and is a consistent 30G scorer. , Furthermore, to add to his ES importance, he is the key cog to our PP ranking #1 in PPP and 3rd in PPG.

If you sit down for contract negotiations and he presents a hard-line stance commanding Ryan Getzlaf type money over the max term, then it's time to start considering your options. But if he's willing to sign for fair value at 6.5-7.5M, you take that deal all day.

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03-11-2013, 01:37 PM
  #739
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Thought this could use a bump. Funny how the trade Kessel talk went pretty quiet after his 2nd 3 point effort in 3 games.

Just a quick breakdown of his 7 goals so far:

1 has come when the Leafs are down by 1.
3 have come in a tie hockey game.
2 have come when the Leafs were leading by 1.
and finally a single goal came when they were up 3+

Scored some big goals, even if he isn't putting up the numbers we expect him too yet (even though is is just a shade under a PPG), and the team is in 5th place. What is there to complain about?

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03-11-2013, 01:42 PM
  #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanwb View Post
Thought this could use a bump. Funny how the trade Kessel talk went pretty quiet after his 2nd 3 point effort in 3 games.
The same people who have been talking about trading Kessel have for the most part being talking about it for a long time. Including last season after his career year. It has nothing to do with his most recent game or his recent point totals. There are people who consider his effort/style of play to not be conducive to winning, and that think he has a ton of trade value that should be maximized while it still can be.

The fact that the talk has died down is simply because it had been beaten to death for about a week. It usually goes in waves, people talk about it for a while, get sick of bickering back and forth over the exact same issues, and then a few weeks later it flares up again, with the same people arguing on both sides. So yea, I don't think anybodys opinion is going to be changed by one game. We all know he has the ability to put up 2-3 points in a game on a semi-regular basis, that hasn't changed in years.

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03-11-2013, 01:43 PM
  #741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanwb View Post
Thought this could use a bump. Funny how the trade Kessel talk went pretty quiet after his 2nd 3 point effort in 3 games.

Just a quick breakdown of his 7 goals so far:

1 has come when the Leafs are down by 1.
3 have come in a tie hockey game.
2 have come when the Leafs were leading by 1.
and finally a single goal came when they were up 3+

Scored some big goals, even if he isn't putting up the numbers we expect him too yet (even though is is just a shade under a PPG), and the team is in 5th place. What is there to complain about?
When Kessel is not scoring there's lots to complain about.

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03-11-2013, 01:43 PM
  #742
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I just thought the discussion had run its course
putting up points was never the issue

but unless we hear anything credible don't think there is anything else to discuss

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03-11-2013, 01:46 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
The same people who have been talking about trading Kessel have for the most part being talking about it for a long time. Including last season after his career year. It has nothing to do with his most recent game or his recent point totals. There are people who consider his effort/style of play to not be conducive to winning, and that think he has a ton of trade value that should be maximized while it still can be.

The fact that the talk has died down is simply because it had been beaten to death for about a week. It usually goes in waves, people talk about it for a while, get sick of bickering back and forth over the exact same issues, and then a few weeks later it flares up again, with the same people arguing on both sides. So yea, I don't think anybodys opinion is going to be changed by one game. We all know he has the ability to put up 2-3 points in a game on a semi-regular basis, that hasn't changed in years.
Good post. I still want to trade him for the long term good. That he can put up points have never been the issue cause that he can do. It is his style of play and the lack of, wait for it, intangibles that I dont like.

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03-11-2013, 01:48 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
When Kessel is not scoring there's lots to complain about.
The same can be said for a large amount of players in the NHL.

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03-11-2013, 02:10 PM
  #745
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The same can be said for a large amount of players in the NHL.
Sure, but is the these players paid to be their teams best players and lead them forward?

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03-11-2013, 02:20 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
Sure, but is the these players paid to be their teams best players and lead them forward?
Many of them, yes.

Phil Kessel frustrates me as much as the next guy. However, I place no larger microscope on him then any other player in the NHL. Players have deficiencies, I'm not sure anyone can debate that.

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03-11-2013, 02:21 PM
  #747
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Personally, I love our combination of speed, skill, and grit. Kessel may be invisible at times, but he's a threat to score every time he steps on the ice. Teams know this and must adjust their gameplan accordingly.

Kessel's speed and goal scoring abilities open up opportunities for other players. He adds another dimension to our team.


Lupul - career journeyman who had been traded numerous times for not living up to his potential. Plays on a line with Kessel and becomes an All-Star

JVR - underachieving winger who, until this season, has not had the success that people have hoped for. Now among the league leaders in goals, after being put on a line with Kessel.

Bozak - NCAA undrafted signing who has improved each year while being on a line with Kessel.

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03-11-2013, 02:30 PM
  #748
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Was never a huge Kessel fan. Just don't like his effort level and really am not a fan of players that only skate hard towards the opposing net. I'd say we should at least consider moving him. No way we'll get the kind of return package as we gave up for him, but its at least worth looking into.

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03-11-2013, 02:37 PM
  #749
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Only way Kessel should be traded is IF theres a good chance he walks July 1st 2014, in other words nothing should be considered until this summer.

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03-11-2013, 02:40 PM
  #750
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Only way Kessel should be traded is IF theres a good chance he walks July 1st 2014, in other words nothing should be considered until this summer.
I honestly can't see Nonis taking the risk of losing Kessel for nothing. If he signs with us, it'll be this offseason, or Nonis will unload him IMO.

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