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Phoenix LXXII: Send in the Clowns

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Old
03-09-2013, 04:12 PM
  #776
madhi19
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Halfway point in the season and the Yotes are in 9th place. Two months left watch out for the leaks.

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03-09-2013, 06:29 PM
  #777
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Halfway! And the clowns haven`t even entered the arena to prep the fans for the wonderful events that are about to unfold under the big tent!!

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03-09-2013, 10:47 PM
  #778
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Halfway point in the season and the Yotes are in 9th place. Two months left watch out for the leaks.
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Halfway! And the clowns haven`t even entered the arena to prep the fans for the wonderful events that are about to unfold under the big tent!!
90 plus threads and the same old drive-bys when there's no news.

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03-09-2013, 10:57 PM
  #779
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She was one of two votes...

"After a marathon meeting that stretched late into Tuesday night, the Glendale City Council approved a $197 million deal to keep the financially struggling Phoenix Coyotes at the city's arena.

The vote was 5-2, with council members Phil Lieberman and Joyce Clark opposed, citing concerns about the city's finances and a proposed lease termination clause.The council chambers were packed with 300 fans, residents and media. Many fans wore team jerseys and carried signs in support. Residents in opposition made a smaller group."

Source:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...otes-vote.html
So Phil was actually awake for that one?? Nevertheless.... I stand corrected on the vote.

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And, these are possible potential owner's...

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...-interest.html
Old news that's mostly been debunked around these parts.

As Killion pointed out... Hulsizer has told a local radio host he is not part of anything at the moment, even though by consensus he was in Jamison's first attempt.

Also there's nothing on the table from anyone at this point... so I wouldn't characterize anyone as a "potential owner" at this time.

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03-09-2013, 11:45 PM
  #780
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As Killion pointed out... Hulsizer has told a local radio host he is not part of anything at the moment, even though by consensus he was in Jamison's first attempt.... Also there's nothing on the table from anyone at this point... so I wouldn't characterize anyone as a "potential owner" at this time.
Ya, that's what he (MH) said, though I'm not so sure I'd be swallowing it entirely. He's likely still smarting, publicity shy, luck running out with those Missouri Breaks. Still feeling a tad snakebit when he came up short with the required Fistful of Dollars down Arizona way. Could well be back but hiding out, looking for A Few Dollars More. Whatever the case may be, its too damn quiet in Maricopa County for my liking. Best be sending Sheriff Joe, Joe Kidd up to New York City, have a lil' chat with Mssrs' Bettman & Daly Legend.


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03-10-2013, 07:20 AM
  #781
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I think the NHL will somehow find a way to keep this team in place for at least another season. Realignment sugggests it is not going East any time soon. There's no evidence of any viable options elsewhere except in the medium to long term. The franchise has somehow survived in situ so long that it may have outlasted the critical phase. Remarkably, despite the threats to its existence that would normally be the death knell of any fan base, game attendance is not all that bad. In fact, I think fan attendance is fairly good. Not that my opinion is worth the paper it's not even written on, I would not be at all surprised if there is no news recently because there really is no news, and the NHL will continue to own the team in Phoenix for at least another season while it continues to engineer a sale.

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03-10-2013, 08:11 AM
  #782
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90 plus threads and the same old drive-bys when there's no news.
oh yeah, because the ice edge fellows conducted themselves with such professionalism and astute business acumen that its unwarranted to mock them ...

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So Phil was actually awake for that one?? Nevertheless.... I stand corrected on the vote.
and yet it's OK for you to do you own little drive-by's, eh?

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03-10-2013, 08:15 AM
  #783
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oh yeah, because the ice edge fellows conducted themselves with such professionalism and astute business acumen that its unwarranted to mock them ...

I get what he means though... I want the Coyotes to move to QC like crazy, but even I think the same tired old jokes in thread after thread are annoying.

The next time a "two weeks" joke is funny will be the first time in years.

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Old
03-10-2013, 10:10 AM
  #784
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I think the NHL will somehow find a way to keep this team in place for at least another season. Realignment sugggests it is not going East any time soon. There's no evidence of any viable options elsewhere except in the medium to long term. The franchise has somehow survived in situ so long that it may have outlasted the critical phase. Remarkably, despite the threats to its existence that would normally be the death knell of any fan base, game attendance is not all that bad. In fact, I think fan attendance is fairly good. Not that my opinion is worth the paper it's not even written on, I would not be at all surprised if there is no news recently because there really is no news, and the NHL will continue to own the team in Phoenix for at least another season while it continues to engineer a sale.
Here is the business side of attendance on a shortened season:

01-20-13 Against CHI (WE) - 17,363 (101.4% full) - Home Opener
01-26-13 Against LA (WE) - 14,780 (86.3% full) Bud Light Party Pack
02-02-13 Against DAL (WE) - 12,151 (71.0% full) Buck Bash
02-16-13 Against CBJ (WE) - 15,425 (90.1% full) Bud Light Party Pack/Lunch Sack Giveaway
03-02-13 Against ANA (WE) - 15,227 (88.9% full)
03-09-13 Against DAL (WE) - 15,842 (92.5% full) Bud Light Party Pack

01-23-13 Against CBJ (WD) - 8,355 (48.8% full)
01-28-13 Against NSH (WD) - 8,581 (50.1% full) SoBe Kids Free Mondays
01-30-13 Against EDM (WD) - 12,955 (75.6% full)
02-04-13 Against MIN (WD) - 9,508 (55.5% full) SoBe Kids Free Mondays
02-07-13 Against CHI (WD) - 15,096 (88.2% full)
02-18-13 Against CGY (WD) - 17,208 (100.5% full) SoBe Kids Free Mondays
02-28-13 Against MIN (WD) - 11,547 (67.4% full)
03-04-13 Against ANA (WD) - 11,024 (64.4% full) SoBe Kids Free Mondays
03-07-13 Against STL (WD) - 11,482 (67.0% full) Buck Bash

WD = Weekday; Promotions = underlined; Average Attendance = 11,751; Percentage full = 68.6 (Capacity: 17,125)
WE = Weekend; Promotions = underlined; Average Attendance = 15,131; Percentage full = 88.3 (Capacity: 17,125)


The NHL isn't engineering a sale, the City of Glendale is and it probably won't be able to keep this team in Glendale.


Last edited by Llama19: 03-10-2013 at 10:53 AM.
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Old
03-10-2013, 10:20 AM
  #785
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It appears to me you're all trying to put too much into connections between Mr. Fallar and Mrs. Clark.
Really? I don't think anyone is putting anything into the connection beyond how obvious it was.

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That... and you spend more time slagging the two of them in various ways.... than actually discussing and/or disputing what they say. I'm not saying they're right..... I'm not saying they're wrong. Just making a layman's observation.
That's your observation, huh? Well, here's mine:
-The posts are written from a fanatical perspective. The author starts with a predetermined conclusion that the Coyotes are a viable and essential business; then works backwards trying to make information support the desired conclusion. Except, it's a well documented fact that the Coyotes are not a viable or essential business. Since the facts are so far away from the desired conclusion, the writer makes up wild conspiracy theories to account for the difference. Plus, he slanders anyone or anything that points to the evidence of the team's non-viability and non-essentialness.

There's not much point in discussing that type of low wattage output. There is no business, governance, or legal acumen to it. It's beyond the fringe. But it probably resonates with others fanatics who share the same ideals.

Do you know anyone who fits that description, Legend?

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and yet it's OK for you to do you own little drive-by's, eh?

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03-10-2013, 12:08 PM
  #786
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I get what he means though... I want the Coyotes to move to QC like crazy, but even I think the same tired old jokes in thread after thread are annoying.

The next time a "two weeks" joke is funny will be the first time in years.
Ahem. Around here we refer to them as fortnights. We are gentlemen after all.

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03-10-2013, 01:15 PM
  #787
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Do you know anyone who fits that description, Legend?
... puts hand up, "that'd be me" CF. Only Im not "fanatical" about it, only thinking its "viable" provided the NHL climbs a long way down off their horse with respect to price & terms. That hasnt happened, not likely to happen, and why for should they when they can simply flip it to Quebec, Seattle or wherever else, prepared to meet & beat price? Its business, plain & simple. The cities insanity with respect to AMF's seems to have passed, one would hope, and I completely agree that the franchise is a non-essential anchor to both the arena & future of Westgate. Nice luxury, but hey... the franchise, the development, just everything handled so badly... more holes in this thing than Clyde Barrows 1934 Ford Fordor Sedan.... Cordoba Gray... stolen from a Mrs. Warren in Arkansas apparently.

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03-10-2013, 01:30 PM
  #788
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Ahem. Around here we refer to them as fortnights. We are gentlemen after all.

That's good.


And there are a few ladies here in the mix, by the way.

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03-10-2013, 01:37 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
It appears to me you're all trying to put too much into connections between Mr. Fallar and Mrs. Clark.
Really? I don't think anyone is putting anything into the connection beyond how obvious it was.

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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
That... and you spend more time slagging the two of them in various ways.... than actually discussing and/or disputing what they say. I'm not saying they're right..... I'm not saying they're wrong. Just making a layman's observation.
That's your observation, huh? Well, here's mine:
-The posts are written from a fanatical perspective. The author starts with a predetermined conclusion that the Coyotes are a viable and essential business; then works backwards trying to make information support the desired conclusion. Except, it's a well documented fact that the Coyotes are not a viable or essential business. Since the facts are so far away from the desired conclusion, the writer makes up wild conspiracy theories to account for the difference. Plus, he slanders anyone or anything that points to the evidence of the team's non-viability and non-essentialness.

There's not much point in discussing that type of low wattage output. There is no business, governance, or legal acumen to it. It's beyond the fringe. But it probably resonates with others fanatics who share the same ideals.
The latest output has essentially done it for me. Understanding the M.O. of certain folks consistently and forever trying to justify the existence of not only the team, but Westgate, has been there since virtually the onset. As eluded to above, it goes beyond fringe. It always has, but this one in particular did it for me.

A few posts back I posted something I thought was interesting. Nothing to do with Fallar and the "revealing" post. No, what was interesting to me was not only did they post snip-its of the Arena Mixed-Use Development Agreement, but went an extra step further... laying on the alter Ellman's contractual failure of Westgate to justify sniping at the current machinations of moving the Cardinals training camp to Glendale.

It's the "additive" in the Koolaid to gloss the faithful followers into believing that there's no way that current council can do any better than the former council in terms of driving business into Westgate.

I've poured over that economic study of the Cardinals Training Camp in Flagstaff/Coconino County that NAU put out. The same one referenced in the last "output". I'm finding it quite difficult, even when using their data and formula's (breaking out Flagstaff seperately vs. Coconino County as a whole) to come up with the numbers quoted by not only "Unfiltered", but the original author from the AZ Daily Sun.

Perhaps another set of eyes and/or a less distracting environment may be in order.

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03-10-2013, 01:45 PM
  #790
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That's good. And there are a few ladies here in the mix, by the way.
OMG, its ALIVE! Where you been?.... and females? Where? Im lookin for a date. Have Gun Will Travel. Beyond Joyce Clark & Norma Alvarez, Scruggs & a few other players in this fiasco, unaware of any "female" posters, members here. Not even LadyStanley visits much anymore. Pretty much left to our own devices, Lord of the Fly's type dealeo goin on around here. Very complex & quite fascinating dynamic actually. No news? We'll just make stuff up, speculate endlessly. All kinds of fun.

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03-10-2013, 01:54 PM
  #791
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Is there any particular incentive by a potential owner to want to keep the team in Glendale beyond having the arena there? Didn't it come out that the team has never made a profit since moving to Arizona in 1996? I have nothing against the state of Arizona, but nearly 20 years seems like enough time to gage whether the location is a good one for an NHL team and the evidence seems to suggest "no".

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03-10-2013, 02:11 PM
  #792
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OMG, its ALIVE! Where you been?.... and females? Where? Im lookin for a date. Have Gun Will Travel. Beyond Joyce Clark & Norma Alvarez, Scruggs & a few other players in this fiasco, unaware of any "female" posters, members here. Not even LadyStanley visits much anymore. Pretty much left to our own devices, Lord of the Fly's type dealeo goin on around here. Very complex & quite fascinating dynamic actually. No news? We'll just make stuff up, speculate endlessly. All kinds of fun.

I don't blame poor LS for not visiting anymore. 3-4 yrs of this stuff? Can't blame her.

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03-10-2013, 02:15 PM
  #793
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I don't blame poor LS for not visiting anymore. 3-4 yrs of this stuff? Can't blame her.
Gotta know when the party's moved on...

 
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03-10-2013, 02:20 PM
  #794
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So the prospect of another year in the Valley has found its way into the discussion! Presuming the new mayor and Council do not fund future subsidies, and if they do they will be small, what is the NHL willing to lose in one more completely lame duck season? The lie that GB has perpetuated over the past few years with his surrogate parade of clowns will no longer be acceptable. Not to mention his cast of characters to fill the leading role will be greatly diminished. Do the fans and/or the community completely dump the concept of support in the final year? nothing would please me more than to see GB scramble in the next few weeks for anew location, determine no site is ready yet and have to bite the NHL`s bullet for one more year. Let the fans squash the ATP and watch GB and the BOG take it big time in the shorts! A fitting end for a complete jerk of a human being!

CF your comments above are spot on! the idea that this Franchise has business viability is a complete pipe dream, perpetuated by those who cant bear the thought that just maybe they are dead wrong!

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03-10-2013, 02:30 PM
  #795
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CF your comments above are spot on! the idea that this Franchise has business viability is a complete pipe dream...
Define "business viability".

 
Old
03-10-2013, 02:42 PM
  #796
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Gotta know when the party's moved on...
Wise words for Bettman et al.



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So the prospect of another year in the Valley has found its way into the discussion! Presuming the new mayor and Council do not fund future subsidies, and if they do they will be small, what is the NHL willing to lose in one more completely lame duck season? The lie that GB has perpetuated over the past few years with his surrogate parade of clowns will no longer be acceptable. Not to mention his cast of characters to fill the leading role will be greatly diminished. Do the fans and/or the community completely dump the concept of support in the final year? nothing would please me more than to see GB scramble in the next few weeks for anew location, determine no site is ready yet and have to bite the NHL`s bullet for one more year. Let the fans squash the ATP and watch GB and the BOG take it big time in the shorts! A fitting end for a complete jerk of a human being!

CF your comments above are spot on! the idea that this Franchise has business viability is a complete pipe dream, perpetuated by those who cant bear the thought that just maybe they are dead wrong!
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Define "business viability".

The business is viable in a system of very high revenue sharing, with possibly a far lower cap system that we have even today--- assuming the team could be bought for actual market value, not Bettman's artificial price based on protecting the league's right to move teams and sell locations.

The problem has always been the massive revenue disparity, which was then further exacerbated by the forced spending that the cap/HRR share system brought about.

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03-10-2013, 02:56 PM
  #797
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Gotta know when the party's moved on...
Just getting started actually... www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs_ZRQoHsgQ

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03-10-2013, 03:03 PM
  #798
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assuming the team could be bought for actual market value, not Bettman's artificial price based on protecting the league's right to move teams and sell locations.
I find the most persuasive evidence is the $300MM+ subsidy that the NHL cultivated to offset the reported $170MM franchise price. Sure, the NHL might be seeking more than market value but the league also fully delivered a mechanism to remove the burden of an inflated price. The franchise was essentially free to any potential owner who would put up the revolver to operate the team in Glendale. JIG looked for someone(s) willing to do that for about a year or so, couldn't make it happen.

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03-10-2013, 05:07 PM
  #799
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I find the most persuasive evidence is the $300MM+ subsidy that the NHL cultivated to offset the reported $170MM franchise price. Sure, the NHL might be seeking more than market value but the league also fully delivered a mechanism to remove the burden of an inflated price. The franchise was essentially free to any potential owner who would put up the revolver to operate the team in Glendale. JIG looked for someone(s) willing to do that for about a year or so, couldn't make it happen.

Would it not be an even greater 'offset' if the team was transferred for $70 MM, a figure somewhat close to Reinsdorf's original offer (give or take a few million)?

I think the league in essence ran into problems with their own requirements, the personal guarantee from an owner, and sufficient liquidity to operate the team should revenues and subsidies fail to cover all costs.

I still think that the current league model forces operating costs to fall within a range that simply is too high for about a third of the current teams. If your starting point then is a team that's already in financial trouble, it's hard to achieve a league average fueled by the top teams, let alone surpass that revenue growth average. The model is forced spending, plain and simple.

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03-10-2013, 06:29 PM
  #800
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I'm personally thinking that Seattle has chances to get the team if the NHL doesn't mind their 12K non-obstructed seats arena and that the new arena project is 2 years behind Quebec, but I think Quebec has chances to get it too if Péladeau doesn't mind playing in the Pacific division for a year before the 2014-15 re-alignment. Detroit asked way before Columbus to be moved to the East, so Columbus can suck it and move back to midwest.


Last edited by Fugu: 03-10-2013 at 08:06 PM. Reason: please use the PM system for the OT, personal discussion, thanks
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