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Old
03-10-2013, 04:42 AM
  #51
FirmestPiano
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You have to wonder what's happened with the defense since the start of the season. Looked pretty great early on but now it's a complete shambles.

Have noticed the same thing VF touched on too. We rarely get any odd man rushes, what's up with that? Has to be one of the reasons we have trouble scoring you'd have to think.

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03-10-2013, 04:49 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Devils Trap View Post
Moose was bad today, but I wouldnt blame the loss on him like we did the past few games. Overall poor effort.
5 Goals on 18 shots against is not acceptable. I don't care how bad the defense was, Moose has to make more stops than that. His save% is around .850 since the start of February. He needs to get benched. Give Kinkaid/Frazee a chance, they can't do worse than Moose at this point.

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03-10-2013, 05:17 AM
  #53
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What an embarrasment this team has become! What th hell happened to them? DeBoer has lost the players, he has lost the touch with his lineup. The coaching staff has no clue what's going on right now. How the hell do you keep going back to Hedberg when he's been playing lik he has?! We have hungry, young goaltenders who are aching for an opportunity and I think they would do a lot better than Moose is right now.

Our defense is a joke. Our offense is a joke. And I don't think we're making the playoffs this year. It's mind boggling that we're watching the same team that started the season a couple of months ago.

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03-10-2013, 05:24 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Devilswede View Post
What an embarrasment this team has become! What th hell happened to them? DeBoer has lost the players, he has lost the touch with his lineup. The coaching staff has no clue what's going on right now. How the hell do you keep going back to Hedberg when he's been playing lik he has?! We have hungry, young goaltenders who are aching for an opportunity and I think they would do a lot better than Moose is right now.

Our defense is a joke. Our offense is a joke. And I don't think we're making the playoffs this year. It's mind boggling that we're watching the same team that started the season a couple of months ago.
let alone the team so close to the stanley cup
gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

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03-10-2013, 05:35 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by FirmestPiano View Post
You have to wonder what's happened with the defense since the start of the season. Looked pretty great early on but now it's a complete shambles.
They were good early because the whole team was playing the same way they did in the playoffs last year. The forecheck was keeping the other team in their own end and taking the pressure off the defense. And when the defense broke down the goaltending was there to make up for it. When they started struggling to establish the forecheck things started to go south. Unfortunately the goaltending went south at the same time.

Obviously it's not entirely because of the lack of a forecheck, but I think that's a major reason. If the forecheck was going they'd be spending less time in their own end. And I don't know what the hell has happened to the PK. It's been atrocious since the playoffs started last year. And the PP...is the Devils PP. It's been average/bad for the last decade. We're just not very good defensively right now, and our special teams aren't doing us any favors.


Last edited by MadDevil: 03-10-2013 at 05:42 AM.
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Old
03-10-2013, 05:50 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by MadDevil View Post
They were good early because the whole team was playing the same way they did in the playoffs last year. The forecheck was keeping the other team in their own end and taking the pressure off the defense. And when the defense broke down the goaltending was there to make up for it. When they started struggling to establish the forecheck things started to go south. Unfortunately the goaltending went south at the same time.

Obviously it's not entirely because of the lack of a forecheck, but I think that's a major reason. If the forecheck was going they'd be spending less time in their own end. And I don't know what the hell has happened to the PK. It's been atrocious since the playoffs started last year. And the PP...is the Devils PP. It's been average/bad for the last decade. We're just not very good defensively right now, and our special teams aren't doing us any favors.
The forecheck wasn't really that great at that time either though, hasn't been the same since the playoffs. Mind-boggling really.

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Old
03-10-2013, 06:05 AM
  #57
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We need a solid D man we can trust. We dont have that right now. Andy Greene is probs the closest. We need a goalie we can trust. We dont have that. Marty is the closest but he is hurt. Time to make moves or miss the playoffs.

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03-10-2013, 06:15 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by FirmestPiano View Post
The forecheck wasn't really that great at that time either though, hasn't been the same since the playoffs. Mind-boggling really.
It hasn't been as good as in the playoffs, but it was better during the first 10 games or so than it has been since. They also had Marty/Moose there to bail them out when they did make mistakes. Then everything went to hell. The offense went cold, the defense got worse, Marty got hurt, and Moose went in the toilet.

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03-10-2013, 06:56 AM
  #59
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I love Moose and all, but at this point when I see him in goal I assume he is giving up 5.

He'll be rock solid for like 12 minutes, then flood gates and a poopshow.

Our D has serious issues for sure (most are slow and offensively challenged, and a few defensively challenged as well), but at the end of the day this team has always survived on goaltending and we just aren't getting any.

On offense we are actually creating chances and often out shooting our opponents, but our Achilles heel is that we have literally no one who can finish around the net. (The loss of traitor boy really showing itself here more than anything.)

We are like the anti-Islanders in that regard. They get no offensive zone time, but bury everything that gets loose in the crease.

We'll cycle for days, put all kinds of pressure on the opposing D and then completely spazz out when ever there is a puck loose in front.

Clarkson isn't finding his way into the difficult areas with nearly the same frequency as earlier in the season (and often has his back to the play for some reason) and Henrique has largely quit doing his Parise impression from last season and hardly ever parks in front.

Carter seems like the only guy crashing the net, and he has flat out terrible hands.

Bernier and Lokti have been opportunistic, but neither can carry a team or win a game by themselves.

Zubrus isn't much of an upgrade, whenever he may return, as he has stone hands as well, but at least he will cause his fair share of havoc in the dirty areas. I was hoping Poni would take that page in the playbook, but he hasn't gotten his nose nearly dirty enough.

And I will defend Zajac all day, every day (his back checking saved at least two goals in this debacle), and he is the only player we got who can win a draw, and he even played more physical than usual this time out, but damn he is off his offensive game and is not creating for himself or anyone else.

Add the occasional uncharacteristic penalty, and Travis is playing like a minus player instead of the Selke caliber two way center his is capable of being. (That and his contract making him the scapegoat here on HF, oh joy.)

It does appear Kovy is right on the cusp of being Kovy (not a moment too soon), and was the closest thing we had to a player carrying the team on his back this particular night.

We need him to have one of those hot streaks where he goes all " beast mode" and gets like 8 game winners in the next 11 games.

Because "defense and systems" isn't going to carry the day until Marty gets healthy, the last 8 games proving that without any doubt.

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Old
03-10-2013, 07:12 AM
  #60
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I'm tired of opposing teams entering the attacking zone with speed and composure, while NJ is all ***** and elbows, bumbling and stumbling into their attacking zone. Ugh.

This year is really making me realize what a missed opportunity last year was. That was most likely the last hurrah for the "old guard" (Brodeur, Elias, even Lou). We're heading for the inevitable downturn that all teams go through and it'll be a while before we get things back on track.

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03-10-2013, 08:10 AM
  #61
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My biggest problem is PDB has continued to put Moose in despite an obvious slump. He's playing WAY more than any other goaltender in the league, and none of the other starters are as old as Moose.

At this point, he's lost his confidence and is tired physically. Both the rookies have looked more composed in net so far. I thought Frazee looked like he was doing pretty good for the few spots he was involved.

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03-10-2013, 08:15 AM
  #62
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Someone said in the game thread that maybe Kovy has a bad back based on the way he shot the puck. This maybe true. Why would DeBoer then double shift Kovy if his back is sore, rest is best for a lower back problem?

What do you think about the thought that starting a rookie goalie in a pressure game is not the way to start a rookie goalie for the future? I think Lou has a lot of input re: the starting goalie. BTW IMO Hedberg wasn't the problem last night, considering his age, role, and that he hasn't had a day off. Lou knew that this would happen when Marty's back issues were announced. Let the truth be told.

IMO many of the problems the Devils currently face are the fault of the coaches and Devils management. I know the Players play the game but musical chairs are the coaches.

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Old
03-10-2013, 08:20 AM
  #63
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where is this NJDevils Team from the beginning of the season?

i mean, wtf...when was the last time we scored the first goal?
we run behind the opponent since WEEKS. game for game.

i really am sad,...you guys know me all...you guys know what a BIG optimist i am, right?
but i start worrying a LOT about the struggle this team is in...

i think, we need a trade to shake things up :/

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Old
03-10-2013, 08:20 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by JK3 View Post
Per TG: It’s been almost four weeks since they played a complete game where they led and played in control through three periods.
2 wins in our last 11. And even those 2 wins required 3rd period comebacks.

Have allowed at least 5 goals 4 times in that stretch.


Ugly times right now.

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Old
03-10-2013, 08:35 AM
  #65
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That one goal was compleltely Fayne's fault. Simple PK hockey. Never go into the opposite corner where your defensemen partner and another forward are already battling.

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Old
03-10-2013, 08:40 AM
  #66
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The forecheck wasn't really that great at that time either though, hasn't been the same since the playoffs. Mind-boggling really.

Definitely the biggest difference between this season and last. It was all the talk in the playoffs. Totally toothless right now.

I'm a JJ fan, so maybe that is influencing me, but I stick him back in the lineup, tell him don't worry about scoring, just press the forecheck. If there is one thing he can do, it is that.

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03-10-2013, 08:46 AM
  #67
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That one goal was compleltely Fayne's fault. Simple PK hockey. Never go into the opposite corner where your defensemen partner and another forward are already battling.
Lousy play no doubt. But there are so many mental mistakes right now that I don't really like singling anyone out right now.

Collectively the team has its head up it's azz.

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Old
03-10-2013, 09:08 AM
  #68
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The first goal, that is what the 10th time someone has been left all alone in the slot because everyone went to the corner? Just being sloppy in the defensive zone.

Also, the rushes. When ever the Devils attack its usually a 2 on 3, and when they defend its a 3 on 2. Or at least that's how it feels watching.

This:


vs

That:


Other teams third guy is rarely ever behind the play like the Devil's third man.
This this this. So much of this. That is all I can really say about those screen caps.

I think last night's game was the best piece of evidence that maybe some of the "negative" guys here aren't just being negative just for ***** and giggles. I mean it's one thing to be stupid negative and say strip the C from Salvador, fire DeBoer and Lou, etc., but far too many people have had their fan loyalty questioned by simply being honest about the situation. This is not a very good team right now and the brutal truth is that they haven't been good for weeks.

Here is the lineup NJ iced for game one of last year's final. Never mind the defense because it's the same group of guys regardless of how they're performing.

Zach Parise - Travis Zajac - Dainius Zubrus
Alexei Ponikarovsky - Adam Henrique - Ilya Kovalchuk
Patrik Elias - Jacob Josefson - David Clarkson
Ryan Carter - Stephen Gionta - Steve Bernier

extra: Sykora, Cam, Boulton

Look familiar? Yeah, all of the top 12 are still in the organization except ZP and the extras are a little bit different. Right on! We got this. This should still be a pretty good team.

Now take a look at last night's roster and what you see is this:

Alexei Ponikarovsky -Andrei Loktionov -Ilya Kovalchuk
Patrik Elias - Adam Henrique -David Clarkson
Stefan Matteau -Travis Zajac - Steve Bernier
Ryan Carter - Stephen Gionta - Tom Kostopoulos

extra: Barch

Now here is the problem. What you see isn't always what you get and what you should really see.... is this:

x - Travis Zajac - x
Alexei Ponikarovsky - Adam Henrique - Ilya Kovalchuk
Patrik Elias - x - David Clarkson
Ryan Carter - Stephen Gionta - Steve Bernier

the x's are pretty obvious and the small fonts are used to denote players who are under performing, all at the same time mind you. So if I knew nothing about this team and took a look at this roster, I could easily figure out that they're short two very very important wingers, and are missing a 3rd line center which just also happens to be a very important position. This is your true 2013 NJ Devils.

Now take a look again at what NJ iced last night and try to convince yourself that this is the same "team" as last year. It's not even close. This team simply walks a fine line because of just how little depth they posses. I wasn't expecting them to replace Parise, but they did nothing remotely even close to it. Inserting guys like Matteau, Butler and Tendenby doesn't cut the ****ing mustard.

Looks to me that there is still a pretty decent core here, but they're dealing with a major injury with no depth to speak of. Oh yeah, this little issue is also amplified by the fact that the core guys are by and large playing like ****. It just may have something to do with the fact that they're all being asked to play different roles on the team right now, but that just may be me, I don't know. Loktionov and Kostopoulos seem to be nice finds, but it's just too bad they're playing on a team missing a couple of key components.

Oh and just to throw a little more salt on the wounds.....

Hedberg (all overplayed 39 years old of him)
Frazee / Kinkaid

This ain't no damn slump.


Last edited by Sir Fenwick Corsi: 03-10-2013 at 09:14 AM.
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Old
03-10-2013, 09:16 AM
  #69
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Wow, our depth was sick late last season

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03-10-2013, 10:25 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by nona weisbaum View Post
This this this. So much of this. That is all I can really say about those screen caps.

I think last night's game was the best piece of evidence that maybe some of the "negative" guys here aren't just being negative just for ***** and giggles. I mean it's one thing to be stupid negative and say strip the C from Salvador, fire DeBoer and Lou, etc., but far too many people have had their fan loyalty questioned by simply being honest about the situation. This is not a very good team right now and the brutal truth is that they haven't been good for weeks.

Here is the lineup NJ iced for game one of last year's final. Never mind the defense because it's the same group of guys regardless of how they're performing.

Zach Parise - Travis Zajac - Dainius Zubrus
Alexei Ponikarovsky - Adam Henrique - Ilya Kovalchuk
Patrik Elias - Jacob Josefson - David Clarkson
Ryan Carter - Stephen Gionta - Steve Bernier

extra: Sykora, Cam, Boulton

Look familiar? Yeah, all of the top 12 are still in the organization except ZP and the extras are a little bit different. Right on! We got this. This should still be a pretty good team.

Now take a look at last night's roster and what you see is this:

Alexei Ponikarovsky -Andrei Loktionov -Ilya Kovalchuk
Patrik Elias - Adam Henrique -David Clarkson
Stefan Matteau -Travis Zajac - Steve Bernier
Ryan Carter - Stephen Gionta - Tom Kostopoulos

extra: Barch

Now here is the problem. What you see isn't always what you get and what you should really see.... is this:

x - Travis Zajac - x
Alexei Ponikarovsky - Adam Henrique - Ilya Kovalchuk
Patrik Elias - x - David Clarkson
Ryan Carter - Stephen Gionta - Steve Bernier

the x's are pretty obvious and the small fonts are used to denote players who are under performing, all at the same time mind you. So if I knew nothing about this team and took a look at this roster, I could easily figure out that they're short two very very important wingers, and are missing a 3rd line center which just also happens to be a very important position. This is your true 2013 NJ Devils.

Now take a look again at what NJ iced last night and try to convince yourself that this is the same "team" as last year. It's not even close. This team simply walks a fine line because of just how little depth they posses. I wasn't expecting them to replace Parise, but they did nothing remotely even close to it. Inserting guys like Matteau, Butler and Tendenby doesn't cut the ****ing mustard.

Looks to me that there is still a pretty decent core here, but they're dealing with a major injury with no depth to speak of. Oh yeah, this little issue is also amplified by the fact that the core guys are by and large playing like ****. It just may have something to do with the fact that they're all being asked to play different roles on the team right now, but that just may be me, I don't know. Loktionov and Kostopoulos seem to be nice finds, but it's just too bad they're playing on a team missing a couple of key components.

Oh and just to throw a little more salt on the wounds.....

Hedberg (all overplayed 39 years old of him)
Frazee / Kinkaid

This ain't no damn slump.
I still think too much is being made of the offensive depth. You are comparing current roster to last years finals roster. Of course our depth is not at that level. You should be comparing it to previous seasons. Our forward depth is pretty much comparable to what we had from 2008-2011. All playoff teams minus one horrific half season.

The forecheck has not even been that poor. The Devs are outshooting and outpossessing the other team almost every game. But they can't seem to finish and when the other team attacks, our D gives up GLORIOUS scoring chances. Moose fails to make the highlight reel save and voila, down 1-0 and the floodgates open.

Doesn't matter how little time the opponent stays in our end if every time they are there a guy is wide open in the slot.

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Old
03-10-2013, 10:34 AM
  #71
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the forecheck and possession game has been very "in the middle" the entire season.

i think the only time i was really impressed with it was during the isles game at the rock where they had them pinned in for 2 minutes. it has been way too inconsistent. this team obviously needs to play their system to a T, and right now it's not happening. i have also never seen so many top players suck so badly at once. it's beyond alarming.

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03-10-2013, 11:40 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by guitarguyvic View Post
I still think too much is being made of the offensive depth. You are comparing current roster to last years finals roster. Of course our depth is not at that level. You should be comparing it to previous seasons. Our forward depth is pretty much comparable to what we had from 2008-2011. All playoff teams minus one horrific half season.

The forecheck has not even been that poor. The Devs are outshooting and outpossessing the other team almost every game. But they can't seem to finish and when the other team attacks, our D gives up GLORIOUS scoring chances. Moose fails to make the highlight reel save and voila, down 1-0 and the floodgates open.

Doesn't matter how little time the opponent stays in our end if every time they are there a guy is wide open in the slot.
Well first things first, it's not just that the Defense is giving up these glorious chances, it's an entire team issue. I mean just look at the pics that I re-posted. It all starts in the neutral zone and right now the forwards are not getting the job done. You're seeing the defense scramble all over the place because there is just way too many attacking players wide open all the damn time. It's been horrifying to watch. Some real bad hockey for sure.

If you don't agree with the depth issue, that's fine because I personally don't feel it's enough of an excuse to be playing this badly. Thing is, I'm pretty sure having guys in roles they shouldn't be in is making the issues far worse then they should be.

As for the forecheck, I think it has been spotty all season, at best. During this losing streak, NJ had their moments where it clicked, but just take a look at the teams they've been playing and tell me you still feel as good about it.

Only thing I can tell you for sure is that things will not get better until guys like Poni, Zajac, Clarkson, Henrique start pulling their weight. Doesn't matter who is here and who isn't, these guys need to provide more. There is no way around it. I'd say Kovy must produce more as well, but then I realize he's playing nearly half the game on his off-wing and I kind of feel bad for him. If the team didn't have the holes they do, he wouldn't be forced to play that much. It's not like the Devils get 6 power plays a game or something and that's where his minutes are coming from. Dude is out there all the damn time because really, who the **** else is going to do it?

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03-10-2013, 12:10 PM
  #73
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Here's our Instant Insight from last night. Disappointing to not build off the Buffalo game.

http://wp.me/p347yn-wv

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03-10-2013, 12:17 PM
  #74
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I know his absence isn't the sole reason for where we're at, but this stretch has really showed the importance of Zubrus' versatility, forecheck, PK ability, size, and boardwork. He is an absolute beast when it comes to the little things, but that's where we're really struggling.

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03-10-2013, 12:23 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by FirmestPiano View Post
You have to wonder what's happened with the defense since the start of the season. Looked pretty great early on but now it's a complete shambles.

Have noticed the same thing VF touched on too. We rarely get any odd man rushes, what's up with that? Has to be one of the reasons we have trouble scoring you'd have to think.
[Defensive problems] It all started when players started getting rotated in and out of the lineup for seemingly no reason other than a loss. A. DeBoer killed the continuity of the pairings and B. He made the most vulnerable nervous to lose their starting position. I personally think the moves with Tallinder, Fayne and Larsson in and out have been horrible decisions. You don't create a spark by moving d-men in and out...I think it has been the worst decision since DeBoer has been at the helm.

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