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Fedorov vs. Selanne

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Old
03-10-2013, 06:13 AM
  #1
TAnnala
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Fedorov vs. Selanne

Which one will be regarded as the better player? Considering career, prime and peak.

Edit: I am talking about Sergei Fedorov.

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03-10-2013, 06:46 AM
  #2
begbeee
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Career: Selanne
Prime: Selanne
Peak: Fedorov - very few players had better season than him

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03-10-2013, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
Career: Selanne
Prime: Selanne
Peak: Fedorov - very few players had better season than him

I can think of a slew of players

Joe Malone, Cowley, Brian Elliot, Hainsworth, B Hull, Brodeur, Coffey, Gretzky, Thomas, Yzerman, LaFontaine, Jagr, Kurri, Oates, Bossy, Parent, Lemieux, Espo, and Orr all had better seasons than Federov and that's not even trying to dig into it.

I would even debate that 76 goal season Selanne had was better than that 1994 season Federov had.

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03-10-2013, 10:01 AM
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Feds for everything, except aging.

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03-10-2013, 10:07 AM
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begbeee
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
I would even debate that 76 goal season Selanne had was better than that 1994 season Federov had.
I'm honestly curious and eager to read your case.

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03-10-2013, 10:50 AM
  #6
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Fedorov wins in all three categories. He could be THE man on a team. Selanne is just a secondary player, albeit a good one.

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03-10-2013, 11:00 AM
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the edler
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Selänne was generally a better regular season scorer than Fedorov, you'll have to give him that. That's nothing to scoff at. And if you like accumulated numbers Selänne is perhaps better. But everything else it's Fedorov easily. And defensively the gap is gigantic. Fedorov was perhaps the best defensive forward of his generation. Selänne perhaps the worst.

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03-10-2013, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
I'm honestly curious and eager to read your case.
I see you won't back up your statement about "best season ever" even when I mention at least 20 players off the top of my head. Tell me, can you back up your claim?!?!?!?

76g-56a 132p +8 is pretty damn impressive and still a rookie record for most goals. 76 goals shattered the previous record of 53 for a rookie, that is no mere feat and overall only topped by Mario, Wayne and B Hull for goals in a season. Good for a .905 goals per game to go with a 1.57 points per game. His 24 power play goals that season is good for 5th all time too. The Jets I would not say were a fabulous team either but as a rookie he more than dominated in every category and teammate beating Housely by 35 total points and Tkachuk/Davydov by an astounding 48 goals. Somehow he pulled off a +8 when the rest of his team were all negative but that will happen when your goalies give up an average 3.5 and 4.3 goals a game and save less than 90%.

You are looking at probably an unbreakable record, we most likely will never see a 76 goal season never mind a 132 point season and Teemu did this during the so called dead puck era. Joe Thornton's 125 points is the closet a player has come and this during a higher scoring era. Nevermind it was done by a rookie when it is least likely to happen.

Much on that popcorn.

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03-10-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jw2 View Post
Feds for everything, except aging.
Pretty much. Bears mentioning, though, that Fedorov was still a KHL all-star in all three of his post-NHL seasons, and was twice as productive as Selanne offensively in the '10 Olympics.

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03-10-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
I see you won't back up your statement about "best season ever" even when I mention at least 20 players off the top of my head. Tell me, can you back up your claim?!?!?!?

76g-56a 132p +8 is pretty damn impressive and still a rookie record for most goals. 76 goals shattered the previous record of 53 for a rookie, that is no mere feat and overall only topped by Mario, Wayne and B Hull for goals in a season. Good for a .905 goals per game to go with a 1.57 points per game. His 24 power play goals that season is good for 5th all time too. The Jets I would not say were a fabulous team either but as a rookie he more than dominated in every category and teammate beating Housely by 35 total points and Tkachuk/Davydov by an astounding 48 goals. Somehow he pulled off a +8 when the rest of his team were all negative but that will happen when your goalies give up an average 3.5 and 4.3 goals a game and save less than 90%.

You are looking at probably an unbreakable record, we most likely will never see a 76 goal season never mind a 132 point season and Teemu did this during the so called dead puck era. Joe Thornton's 125 points is the closet a player has come and this during a higher scoring era. Nevermind it was done by a rookie when it is least likely to happen.

Much on that popcorn.
'93 was many things, but being in the 'dead puck era' was not one of them.


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Old
03-10-2013, 11:13 AM
  #11
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'93 was many things, but being in the 'dead puck era' was not one of them.
I guess it is just before but it is the clutch and grab era and defensive oriented teams.

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03-10-2013, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Teemu did this during the so called dead puck era.
Not exactly.

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03-10-2013, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Somehow he pulled off a +8 when the rest of his team were all negative
Zhamnov was +7, Numminen +4, Ulanov +6, King +5. And all of them played much more defense than Selänne.

Quote:
You are looking at probably an unbreakable record, we most likely will never see a 76 goal season never mind a 132 point season and Teemu did this during the so called dead puck era. Joe Thornton's 125 points is the closet a player has come and this during a higher scoring era. Nevermind it was done by a rookie when it is least likely to happen.
1992–93 was not even close to Dead Puck Era. It was a season ridiculously inflated for top line scorers. Kind of like the 80s but only more top heavy. 21 guys scored 100+ points. More than ever. Rookie Joe Juneau included. Turgeon and Mogilny at 6th and 7th both had a better PPG than Selänne.

Of course he had a fantastic season. But you can't only look at those numbers.

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03-10-2013, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
I guess it is just before but it is the clutch and grab era and defensive oriented teams.
Very much no.

It is an era with many bad bad team and with the most 100 points scorer of modern time, lot of player had their best season statistic wise that year.

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03-10-2013, 11:24 AM
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03-10-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
You are looking at probably an unbreakable record, we most likely will never see a 76 goal season never mind a 132 point season and Teemu did this during the so called dead puck era. Joe Thornton's 125 points is the closet a player has come and this during a higher scoring era. Nevermind it was done by a rookie when it is least likely to happen.

Much on that popcorn.
I think you're very much confused about when the "DPE" was. 1992/93 was the exact opposite of the dead puck era (which was actually closer to when Teemu was scoring 33/29/28 goals each year). It was the most ridiculously inflated year of league scoring that you'll find in the modern record. Go down the top scorers list and check it out.

Pat Lafontaine set a career high that was 42 points higher than the next highest scoring season of his career. Adam Oates scored 27 more than his next highest season. Yzerman scored 34 more points than the previous season (and second most of his career). Turgeon set a career best by 26 points. Doug Gilmour set a career high (and only came within 16 points of it the next year). Mogilny (tied Selanne with 76 goals), Robitaille, Recchi, etc. all set career highs that year, and average league scoring was ridiculously high. Those are great players, and even they never came close to those numbers before/after for the most part.

But basically, during the "true" DPE (people still debate whether the drop to ~5 [combined] GPG league-wide in '98/99 is the "true" beginning of something that kind of started right after the '94/95 lockout), Selanne was anywhere from a 30 - 100 point player, spending "most" of the time around 30G/60P (like Fedorov, kind of ironically).

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03-10-2013, 11:27 AM
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92-93 was one of the highest scoring seasons in the history of the NHL. 10 players scored more than 120 points. The opposite of the "dead puck era".

You realize that Selänne was fifth in scoring in 92-93? While Fyodorov was second in 93-94. So Fyodorov was the better scorer and at the same time he played Selke calibre defence. It's not even a contest, Fyodorov 93-94 >> Selänne 92-93.

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03-10-2013, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Theokritos View Post
92-93 was one of the highest scoring seasons in the history of the NHL. 10 players scored more than 120 points. The opposite of the "dead puck era".

You realize that Selänne was fifth in scoring in 92-93? While Fyodorov was second in 93-94. So Fyodorov was the better scorer and at the same time he played Selke calibre defence. It's not even a contest, Fyodorov 93-94 >> Selänne 92-93.
I said debatable. Go read first post, I still believe it is debatable, mostly because we are looking at an unbreakable record of 76 goals and 132 points as a rookie.

When someone self-admittedly, who didn't watch the NHL back then like Beegee has claimed, I have a hard time taking such hyperbole claims like BEST EVER. It's not best ever, this one is debatable, better? I dunno, but it's not clear cut better. Too much emphasis put into the Selke IMO. It is a great award, but too much put into it, these days.

BTW 5th as a freaking rookie, don't belittle it.

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03-10-2013, 11:38 AM
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The better player overall is Fedorov.

He could score, was great playmaker, was ~almost~ as fast a skater as Selanne, had one of the hardest slapshots in the league, and just for kicks was a Selke forward to boot. I personally think he's one of the most purely talented players the league has ever seen.

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03-10-2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
I said debatable. Go read first post, I still believe it is debatable, mostly because we are looking at an unbreakable record of 76 goals and 132 points as a rookie.
Why it is important the record ?

Selanne was old, he is just one year younger than Federov anyway.

Gretzky had a 137 point rookie season and was younger.

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03-10-2013, 11:44 AM
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Selanne is one-dimensional winger and Fedorov most complete center. No use to compare these two. Fedorov wins.

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03-10-2013, 11:46 AM
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The better player overall is Fedorov.

He could score, was great playmaker, was ~almost~ as fast a skater as Selanne, had one of the hardest slapshots in the league, and just for kicks was a Selke forward to boot. I personally think he's one of the most purely talented players the league has ever seen.
I tend to agree with that.

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03-10-2013, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
BTW 5th as a freaking rookie, don't belittle it.
No one is. But for example Ovechkin's rookie season is perhaps better than Selänne's. 3rd in league points on an awful Caps. Housley, Zhamnov, Tkachuk, Numminen is a lot better support than Zubrus, Halpern, Clark and Jamie Heward. And defensively the two players are a wash. Ovechkin was 20 years old, Selänne 23.

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03-10-2013, 11:53 AM
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No one is. But for example Ovechkin's rookie season is perhaps better than Selänne's. 3rd in league points on an awful Caps. Housley, Zhamnov, Tkachuk, Numminen is a lot better support than Zubrus, Halpern, Clark and Jamie Heward. And defensively the two players are a wash. Ovechkin was 20 years old, Selänne 23.
Tkachuk wasn't Tkachuk yet only his first full season (only 17 games season prior), Zhamov's rookie campaign also.

So a team of Housley and Numminen....that can be compared to that 2005/06 Caps team.

So, Selanne lead in goals and 5th in a league that had Gretzky, Robitalle, Hull, Yzerman, Murphey, Bourque, Sakic, Coffey, Gilmour, Gartner, Oates, Messier, Hawerchuk and probable HOFers in LaFontaine, Bure, Recchi, Shannahan, Sundin, Francis. You really think the league is going to have that many HoFers that played during Ovie's 2005/06 season?


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03-10-2013, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Tkachuk wasn't Tkachuk yet only his first full season (only 17 games season prior), Zhamov's rookie campaign also.

So a team of Housley and Numminen....that can be compared to that 2005/06 Caps team.
Um... I don't care if Zhamnov was a rookie or not, he was 22 years old and contributed 72 points in 68 games for the Jets. That's a key contributor. Tkachuk's 28 goals can't be so easily discarded either.

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So, Selanne lead in goals and 5th in a league that had Gretzky, Robitalle, Hull, Yzerman, Murphey, Bourque, Sakic, Coffey, Gilmour, Gartner, Oates, Messier, Hawerchuk and probable HOFers in LaFontaine, Bure, Recchi, Shannahan, Sundin, Francis. You really think the league is going to have that many HoFers that played during Ovie's 2005/06 season?
Unfortunate that we only got to see 45 games of Gretzky and 60 games of Lemieux that year.

But yes, in an offense-first season, Selanne was able to align himself with the other top offensive players in the league. He has also produced for long enough to be very high on the all-time list as well - higher than some/most of those names. But I'd still likely take most of them over Selanne for my team.

Ultimately, though, '92/93 doesn't elevate Selanne above a lot of those names any more than '97/98 elevates Leclair and Palffy above him.

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