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who would you want to see phoenix pursue via trade

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Old
03-09-2013, 11:35 AM
  #701
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Could we have one thread that does not involve relocation and ownership? The trade deadline is approaching, and the Coyotes are still very much in the playoff hunt. I know the Coyotes are on the "under" when it comes to the over/under of our well known cliché 50/50, but there is still hockey to be played this season. If it's our last one, the last thing i want to hear about is this Chicken Little ****. We all pretty much know what's going to happen, but if we're going to talk about it, let's do it somewhere else. I click on a thread expecting to read about hockey, and instead i get "Sports Economics: For Dummies."

Y'all are killing my buzz. I feel like I am at my 99 year old grandmother's birthday party, but the people in attendance are planning her inevitable funeral. Let's talk hockey in the hockey threads.

Now that my *****ing is over with, I actually have something to say. Ever since Maloney and Tippett have been together, this team has not really been so close to falling out of contention for the playoffs. So i personally believe Maloney will make a move or two to solidify our chances. Maybe his first move involving one of our many defenseman in the organization?

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03-09-2013, 01:42 PM
  #702
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So Eklund says the Caps are interested in Yandle, which of course means the Caps are absolutely not looking at Yandle. But if they were what do 'Yotes fans feel would be a fair return?

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03-09-2013, 01:47 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by Stahl2Stall View Post
Highly doubt the Hunters ever leave the Knights
Certainly not just a single one of them to be George McPhee's *****. Given absolute power and complete autonomy over an NHL franchise, though? I bet they'd leave in a minute.

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03-09-2013, 01:50 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by rabbit3119 View Post
Could we have one thread that does not involve relocation and ownership? The trade deadline is approaching, and the Coyotes are still very much in the playoff hunt. I know the Coyotes are on the "under" when it comes to the over/under of our well known cliché 50/50, but there is still hockey to be played this season. If it's our last one, the last thing i want to hear about is this Chicken Little ****. We all pretty much know what's going to happen, but if we're going to talk about it, let's do it somewhere else. I click on a thread expecting to read about hockey, and instead i get "Sports Economics: For Dummies."

Y'all are killing my buzz. I feel like I am at my 99 year old grandmother's birthday party, but the people in attendance are planning her inevitable funeral. Let's talk hockey in the hockey threads.

Now that my *****ing is over with, I actually have something to say. Ever since Maloney and Tippett have been together, this team has not really been so close to falling out of contention for the playoffs. So i personally believe Maloney will make a move or two to solidify our chances. Maybe his first move involving one of our many defenseman in the organization?
I'm sorry, but this is misguided. Really. You can't have a meaningful conversation about the tradedeadline and our budget without bringing ownership into it. Just can't.

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03-09-2013, 01:51 PM
  #705
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So Eklund says the Caps are interested in Yandle, which of course means the Caps are absolutely not looking at Yandle. But if they were what do 'Yotes fans feel would be a fair return?
Forsberg + Wilson + ?

Need a roster player of some significance as well. Tempted to add a protected 1st to the wish list.

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03-09-2013, 02:09 PM
  #706
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Forsberg + Wilson + ?

Need a roster player of some significance as well. Tempted to add a protected 1st to the wish list.
I wouldn't think you would want a roster defenseman coming back given all the young defensemen in your system so Johansson and Neuvirth seem the most interesting young roster players. I could see the Caps dealing Laich also. If you did want a roster defenseman getting Yandle would make Schultz available.

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03-09-2013, 02:27 PM
  #707
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Johansson, Forsberg and Wilson isn't bad. Short on proven ability, though. Safe to say the Coyotes want ELCs and picks coming back.

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03-09-2013, 03:55 PM
  #708
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Johansson, Forsberg and Wilson isn't bad. Short on proven ability, though. Safe to say the Coyotes want ELCs and picks coming back.
When's the last time a single player actually returned that much in a trade? This package is comparable, but I think stronger than the one sent to CBJ for Nash. The Kessel trade turned out to have more value than that but at the time it wasn't known that the picks would be high. Burke wouldn't have done it if he had known, just as McPhee wouldn't consider this one.

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03-09-2013, 04:22 PM
  #709
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I think Forsberg AND Wilson is too much.

How about one of them, Stan Galiev, and a... 2nd? 3rd?

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03-09-2013, 04:42 PM
  #710
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I had a dream last night we got kadri.

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03-09-2013, 05:22 PM
  #711
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I think Forsberg AND Wilson is too much.

How about one of them, Stan Galiev, and a... 2nd? 3rd?
I don't. Yandle in Washington is good for 60+ points per season.

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03-09-2013, 06:09 PM
  #712
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When's the last time a single player actually returned that much in a trade?
When is the last time a D like Yandle came on to the market? Wilson and Forsberg, despite all their merits, have not scored a point in the NHL. I don't consider them elite, HF doesn't and it's likely that McPhee doesn't if he has a chance to acquire such a D.

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This package is comparable, but I think stronger than the one sent to CBJ for Nash.
How? CBJ got proven assets. Not that we should be using Columbus or Howson as some sort of measuring stick in the first place.

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just as McPhee wouldn't consider this one.
I really doubt that. Given the problems with the culture on that team, I think he does it without much hesitation.

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03-10-2013, 12:18 AM
  #713
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I don't. Yandle in Washington is good for 60+ points per season.
Depends - he could be a 60+ point player for us all the same. If he is the same type of player over there, maybe they get the same 45 point guy that makes some great plays, but isn't superlative anywhere, except for maybe speed.

Washington may be willing to let go of Green as one of their salary dumps in the offseason, and replacing him with Yandle would be sufficient. Essentially, the same player, but cheaper.

I still also think that Ribeiro has to be on our radar. Is it possible to work out a contract extension within terms of the trade? Imagine Ribeiro okaying Phoenix as a destination, and us saying that we would guarantee a 2 year, $8.0 million extension. He's on pace for an 80+ point season over a full season. Given, he has better offensive talent around, but he is capable of 60+ points, and we've had previous success with veteran offensive presences in different roles (Whitney and now Sullivan, along with players like Langkow and Belanger in their respective roles).

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03-10-2013, 03:14 AM
  #714
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I had a dream last night we got kadri.
Dreaming about the Leafs eh? I see where your loyalties lie

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03-10-2013, 09:51 AM
  #715
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Depends - he could be a 60+ point player for us all the same. If he is the same type of player over there, maybe they get the same 45 point guy that makes some great plays, but isn't superlative anywhere, except for maybe speed.

Washington may be willing to let go of Green as one of their salary dumps in the offseason, and replacing him with Yandle would be sufficient. Essentially, the same player, but cheaper.

I still also think that Ribeiro has to be on our radar. Is it possible to work out a contract extension within terms of the trade? Imagine Ribeiro okaying Phoenix as a destination, and us saying that we would guarantee a 2 year, $8.0 million extension. He's on pace for an 80+ point season over a full season. Given, he has better offensive talent around, but he is capable of 60+ points, and we've had previous success with veteran offensive presences in different roles (Whitney and now Sullivan, along with players like Langkow and Belanger in their respective roles).
No team would be interested in Yandle if they didn't see the offensive upside. He's incredibly contained in the Phoenix system. If Washington does want Yandle I fear it is because they may want to buy out (or get rid of) Green. Yandle would be the replacement.

As for Ribeiro. We don't know where this team will be next year. Our own UFA's (Smith) is already refusing to negotiate an extension because of this (he doesn't want to pay Quebec taxes would be my best guess). There is zero chance we would be interested in Ribeiro.

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03-10-2013, 10:06 AM
  #716
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Washington might be least likely team in the entire nhl willing to pay up for Yandle. They've already got Carlson and Green. I think they are all set on premier puck moving, offensive minded D. This is why it is an eklund rumor; it makes absolutely no sense and is completely untrue.

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03-10-2013, 10:12 AM
  #717
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
When is the last time a D like Yandle came on to the market? Wilson and Forsberg, despite all their merits, have not scored a point in the NHL. I don't consider them elite, HF doesn't and it's likely that McPhee doesn't if he has a chance to acquire such a D.



How? CBJ got proven assets. Not that we should be using Columbus or Howson as some sort of measuring stick in the first place.



I really doubt that. Given the problems with the culture on that team, I think he does it without much hesitation.
I suppose if they trade Green then they could probably use Yandle. Maloney would probably want Forsberg and a more proven asset.

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03-10-2013, 10:13 AM
  #718
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No team would be interested in Yandle if they didn't see the offensive upside. He's incredibly contained in the Phoenix system. If Washington does want Yandle I fear it is because they may want to buy out (or get rid of) Green. Yandle would be the replacement.

As for Ribeiro. We don't know where this team will be next year. Our own UFA's (Smith) is already refusing to negotiate an extension because of this (he doesn't want to pay Quebec taxes would be my best guess). There is zero chance we would be interested in Ribeiro.
So if we move to Quebec, does Doan for Luongo become realistic?

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03-10-2013, 10:18 AM
  #719
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So if we move to Quebec, does Doan for Luongo become realistic?
Luongo only wants to go to Florida (where his wife is from and where he has a house and where there is no state income tax).

Start the Smith to Leafs rumors though. Garrioch has it in his weekly rumor update that Maloney may need to move him because of the contract issue.

If it is Quebec, Doan is gone to the team of his choice for a roster player and a 2nd rounder or something to that effect. This happens in the off season though.

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03-10-2013, 10:20 AM
  #720
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Meh. I wouldn't trade him. I'd just let his contract expire and see where this thing goes.

Doan for J. Bernier?

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03-10-2013, 10:37 AM
  #721
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Meh. I wouldn't trade him. I'd just let his contract expire and see where this thing goes.

Doan for J. Bernier?
There's little or no market for goalies right now with plenty on the market and teams just standing pat. If we can't get a decent return (and I look at Toronto because I like some of their secondary prospects who have dropped a bit on the radar screen) then I'm with you. No point in moving him if all you are going to get is a late second rounder.

Where will Doan want to play? What's the shortest connection for flights to Phoenix? If he wants proximity to his ranch it's Southern Cali or Dallas. If he wants to pickup and move his family back to Canada (unlikely) then it's Western Canada (Edm, Cgy, Van). Van being the team that expressed the most interest last summer.

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03-10-2013, 11:02 AM
  #722
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When is the last time a D like Yandle came on to the market? Wilson and Forsberg, despite all their merits, have not scored a point in the NHL. I don't consider them elite, HF doesn't and it's likely that McPhee doesn't if he has a chance to acquire such a D.

31 year old Dan Boyle with Brad Lukowich for Matt Carle, Ty Wishart, a late 1st and a 4th

25 year old Alex Goligoski for James Neal and Matt Niskanen

32 year old Brian Campbell for Rostislav Olesz

25 year old Dion Phaneuf with Freddy Sjostrom and Keith Aulie for Matt Stajan, Niklas Hagman, Jamal Mayers and Ian White

25 year old Jack Johnson with a 1st for Jeff Carter


These trades are all over the map and hard to summarize. The Gogo trade is an example of a player looking better than he is because of his supporting cast. He is not on the same level as James Neal and Dallas shouldn't have made this trade. The Campbell trade was a salary move that has worked out very well for Florida. The Phaneuf trade wasn't easy to evaluate at the time, but with White not really reaching his potential and Phaneuf steadying his game it's clear that Toronto won. The Johnson trade tells us that if we want an established #1C for Yandle then we'll probably have to add.

I think the Dan Boyle trade is the best comparison to the Yandle for Forsberg, Wilson and Johansson proposal. Yandle and Boyle, similar styles, both under contract for the long term. Yandle being younger and a little cheaper seems to be the more valuable asset, but there are more question marks around his game than there were around Boyle's. As for the return; 2013 Forsberg > 2008 Carle, 2013 Wilson > 2008 Wishart, 2013 Johansson >= 2009 late first (turned out to be Kyle Palmieri). Your proposed package is definitely stronger than what Tampa got for Boyle.

Top defensemen don't get traded very often. When they do, though, the return doesn't seem to be outstanding.

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03-10-2013, 11:28 AM
  #723
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31 year old Dan Boyle with Brad Lukowich for Matt Carle, Ty Wishart, a late 1st and a 4th

25 year old Alex Goligoski for James Neal and Matt Niskanen

32 year old Brian Campbell for Rostislav Olesz

25 year old Dion Phaneuf with Freddy Sjostrom and Keith Aulie for Matt Stajan, Niklas Hagman, Jamal Mayers and Ian White

25 year old Jack Johnson with a 1st for Jeff Carter


These trades are all over the map and hard to summarize. The Gogo trade is an example of a player looking better than he is because of his supporting cast. He is not on the same level as James Neal and Dallas shouldn't have made this trade. The Campbell trade was a salary move that has worked out very well for Florida. The Phaneuf trade wasn't easy to evaluate at the time, but with White not really reaching his potential and Phaneuf steadying his game it's clear that Toronto won. The Johnson trade tells us that if we want an established #1C for Yandle then we'll probably have to add.

I think the Dan Boyle trade is the best comparison to the Yandle for Forsberg, Wilson and Johansson proposal. Yandle and Boyle, similar styles, both under contract for the long term. Yandle being younger and a little cheaper seems to be the more valuable asset, but there are more question marks around his game than there were around Boyle's. As for the return; 2013 Forsberg > 2008 Carle, 2013 Wilson > 2008 Wishart, 2013 Johansson >= 2009 late first (turned out to be Kyle Palmieri). Your proposed package is definitely stronger than what Tampa got for Boyle.

Top defensemen don't get traded very often. When they do, though, the return doesn't seem to be outstanding.
Campbell's contract was for lack of a better word atrocious; hence the lack of return. Florida was the only team willing to take the cap hit at the time.

Phaneuf had to be dealt after a "disagreement" with team Captain Iginla and you can look directly at former Flames GM Sutter for the lack of significant return. He didn't even shop Phaneuf around.

We're not dealing our first so the Jack Johnson deal is slightly irrelevant. Yandle is further ahead as a player than Johnson was at the time of that deal.

We aren't taking a big contract back so the Goligovski deal is irrelevant. This deal does show the overpayment philosophy that comes with acquiring a top D. Ideally in a perfect world this is the type of deal we would pursue. With out ownership situation it just isn't going to happen.

Boyle was run out of town by an owner (Len Barrie) who personally did not like him. This isn't the case with Yandle. The return (young prospects and a first rounder) is similar to what we have proposed. Yandle's contract and age make him more appealing than Boyle at that point of time (keep in mind where the cap was at when Boyle was dealt as well).

Just a couple of comments about the prospects we identified as potential items of interest. Forsberg dropped for a reason at the last draft. Yes, he was "reportedly" as high as #2 on some teams lists. That being said we turned down a package that included Pittsburgh's #8 overall selection (acquired from Carolina) for Yandle. This means we already have indirectly passed on the Yandle for Forsberg deal. Wilson I like but is Wilson a 2nd liner or a physical bottom pairing winger? If you think he's a future Ryan Clowe you want him included. If you think he's just another Chris Brown (who I like but we already have) you aren't that excited to have that as a cornerstone piece. Last year was a weak weak draft and I fear Wilson is more likely to be a 10-15 goal guy on the 3rd line than a 20-30 goal guy dominating on the boards as a 2nd line power forward. With Yandle I want at least 2 sure fire top 6 players coming back.


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Old
03-10-2013, 11:28 AM
  #724
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So if we move to Quebec, does Doan for Luongo become realistic?
I can't see the Coyotes moving to Quebec. The NHL wants expansion money from Quebec.

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03-10-2013, 11:38 AM
  #725
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Johansson, Forsberg and Wilson isn't bad. Short on proven ability, though. Safe to say the Coyotes want ELCs and picks coming back.
This will not help the Coyotes this year. How about Yandle+ for Backstrom?

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