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Kaleta hit on Richards discussion (Suspended 5 games)

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Old
03-06-2013, 10:40 AM
  #226
RazielMoshman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
No, I want him to not reach forward like that. Something that little kids are taught not to do by the boards.

Kaleta shoved him at the same time Richards started to lean forward to smack the puck into the corner. Thats why Richards went down so easily.

Here's the thing, watch any NHL game and there are dozen's of situations like the one Richards and Kaleta are in. One player heading to the boards for the puck and another player pursuing them from behind. In the overhwelming majority of those situations the pursuing player shoves the player they are chasing from behind with roughly the same amount of force Kaleta did. The difference is 99% of the time the player getting pushed is protecting themselves so they don't go sailing headfirst into the boards.

These shoves happen all the time in games. They can be dangerous because they rely on the player getting shoved to protect themselves. But to act as if what Kaleta did was some heinous act that is rarely seen in the game, like some are, is beyond absurd. Its a common play that only led to an injury because of Richards not protecting himself.

Thats why Bob Mackenzie tweeted this

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
If NHL wants to change how it views/deals with "push" from behind, count me in but it's too common play. Can't pick/choose when to apply it.
I don't see many saying what Kaleta did was some heinous act, most are saying he was wrong and some are arguing that Richards was in the wrong, those are the only two camps I see.

The only argument I see is between those who are saying that Richards is in the wrong and those who are saying the play was reckless.

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03-06-2013, 10:46 AM
  #227
joshjull
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Originally Posted by RazielMoshman View Post
To be fair the idea on that play is to go for the puck, not crosscheck the guy from behind. However Richards was Kaleta is 100% responsible for an irresponsible and wreckless play.

Not sure why anyone is blaming Richards for getting hit. Looking at the play time and time again, they skate towards the boards and Kaleta hits him from behind, Richards hadn't just turned, he was skating towards the boards. Kaleta stopped going for the puck and went for the numbers.

I state again I like Kaleta but we can't say his a 'better, much cleaner player' as long as he does stuff like this. He gets injured less and isn't quite as bad, but stuff like this still happens, to him, regularly. His still got some growing up to do.
He's not getting blamed for getting hit. He's being criticized for not protecting himself in that situation. He's actions turned a shove from behind into a potentially crippling head first collision with the boards. You and others don't seem to understand that play happens all the time in games with the difference being 99% of the time the player getting shoved is protecting themselves. Thus not ending up sailing head first into the boards.

To put this situation another way....

Kaleta shoved Richards in a manner that happens all the time in games assuming Richards would be protecting himself as happens 99% of the time in that situation. Instead Richards made himself more vulnerable by leaning forward to play the puck into the corner. Thus leading him to fall quite easily and go sailing headfirst into the boards. These things happened simultaneously so there is no way Kaleta could know thats what Richards intended to do.

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Old
03-06-2013, 10:48 AM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazielMoshman View Post
I don't see many saying what Kaleta did was some heinous act, most are saying he was wrong and some are arguing that Richards was in the wrong, those are the only two camps I see.

The only argument I see is between those who are saying that Richards is in the wrong and those who are saying the play was reckless.
You must not read many national press tweets and the main board on this website. Kaleta is the scummiest player to lace on skates and the Devil incarnate to many.

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03-06-2013, 11:01 AM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Perfect response Ralonzo

Its incredible to me the stupidity Richards displayed on that play. My first reaction to the play was Richards you're an idiot. You never approach the boards like that whether or not there is a player behind you or not. All it would take is hitting a rut and you're sailing head first into the boards in such a poor position.


What makes this even more ridiculous is he KNOWS Kaleta is right behind him because he looked back and saw him. Then Richards decides to approach the puck like a 4 year old learning to skate would and attempts to smack the puck into the corner. Thats why he fell so easily. His left knee was already bent and his arms were half way through the follow through of slapping the puck back to the corner. He basically did the dumbest thin you could do in that situation. Not only didn't he protect himself. He put himself into an even more vulnerable position.

As for Patty, He should know better than to shove a player from behind near the boards. Although I'm guessing he thought Richards would try and brace himself but its still reckless.

.
Sorry, but at some point you have to trust the player behind you to respect you, right? Richards was stupid in how he played it, but Patty was even stupider to do that to him, in that position, at that point of the game.

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03-06-2013, 11:07 AM
  #230
joshjull
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The NHL is just ridiculously arbitrary with its punishment.

Who did the act? who was on the receiving end? Was the player hurt? These things play a far bigger role in the punishments than they should.

Look at the Mike Brown charging penalty when he hit Kaleta.

Brown comes all the way across the ice and slams Pat's head off the glass. Pat is injured and Borwn only got 2mins and there was no hearing. Kaleta being the victim played a role in the punishment (Who was on the receiving end).

In fact Kaleta, over the years, has been on the receiving end of an awful lot of cheapshots that rarely if ever are dealt with by the league office.

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03-06-2013, 11:22 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Timbo Slice View Post
Sorry, but at some point you have to trust the player behind you to respect you, right?
No not really.

Any player that trusts anyone but themselves for protection is a fool. I'm big on players protecting themselves in all situations.

Quote:
Richards was stupid in how he played it, but Patty was even stupider to do that to him, in that position, at that point of the game.
I agree.

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03-06-2013, 12:44 PM
  #232
RazielMoshman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
He's not getting blamed for getting hit. He's being criticized for not protecting himself in that situation. He's actions turned a shove from behind into a potentially crippling head first collision with the boards. You and others don't seem to understand that play happens all the time in games with the difference being 99% of the time the player getting shoved is protecting themselves. Thus not ending up sailing head first into the boards.

To put this situation another way....

Kaleta shoved Richards in a manner that happens all the time in games assuming Richards would be protecting himself as happens 99% of the time in that situation. Instead Richards made himself more vulnerable by leaning forward to play the puck into the corner. Thus leading him to fall quite easily and go sailing headfirst into the boards. These things happened simultaneously so there is no way Kaleta could know thats what Richards intended to do.
I'm sure Kaleta didn't intend injury but it was a stupid play and most players would not have hit him in that position. The puck was there and Richards was, of course, going to play it. Was it a little unlucky? Yes. Did the fact that it's Kaleta make it easier to hand out 5 games? Yes. Does he deserve every single game? Yes.

I do read the main board article but I still don't see many saying anything other than a dirty player got suspended rightly so, and to be fair it's hard to deny that. Last season he got suspended for headbutting multiple times.

He plays a game to get hated and we're surprised when stuff like this happens?

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03-07-2013, 02:18 PM
  #233
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This could have been the end result of that Kaleta hit: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle9447023/

Sad to see stuff like this.

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03-08-2013, 07:38 PM
  #234
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I hope Kaleta comes right back and does it again and again and again until there's a pile of bodies too big to ignore.

In all seriousness, I'm sick of boarding. It's dumb, it's reckless, it's incredibly dangerous, and it should never ever happen. Make it a major and an automatic suspension for every infraction. I don't care if innocent players get suspended, it'll make them err on the side of caution. I've never seen a hit along the glass, legal or otherwise that I've thought, "gee I'm sure glad there aren't rules that make players not want to do that."

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03-08-2013, 07:42 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar View Post
I hope Kaleta comes right back and does it again and again and again until there's a pile of bodies too big to ignore.

In all seriousness, I'm sick of boarding. It's dumb, it's reckless, it's incredibly dangerous, and it should never ever happen. Make it a major and an automatic suspension for every infraction. I don't care if innocent players get suspended, it'll make them err on the side of caution. I've never seen a hit along the glass, legal or otherwise that I've thought, "gee I'm sure glad there aren't rules that make players not want to do that."
Believe it or not he's not out there to make dirty hits, he plays the game balls to the wall and at the NHL level the games a lot faster than it looks on your tv.

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03-08-2013, 07:45 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Believe it or not he's not out there to make dirty hits, he plays the game balls to the wall and at the NHL level the games a lot faster than it looks on your tv.
Almost everything he does is dirty. Two headbutts, the bench door incident, most charging PIM in the league the last three seasons...these aren't accidents.

I don't hate him when he's irritating and keeping his dirtiness under control, but there's no doubt he's a dirty player. Ignorant recklessness is still dirty.

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03-08-2013, 07:50 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoSotC View Post
This could have been the end result of that Kaleta hit: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle9447023/

Sad to see stuff like this.
I feel bad for the guy getting seriously injured, but what the **** was he thinking?? He creates the initial contact by pulling up into the chasing players body 3 feet from the boards.

It's absolutely a stupid hit and suspension worthy, but that's an absolutely stupid place to initiate contact and goes back to what joshjull's been saying. You have to protect yourself on the ice. It's a thoughtless hit that had awful consequences, but I saw no maliciousness on the part of the other player there.

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03-09-2013, 07:04 AM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar View Post
Almost everything he does is dirty. Two headbutts, the bench door incident, most charging PIM in the league the last three seasons...these aren't accidents.

I don't hate him when he's irritating and keeping his dirtiness under control, but there's no doubt he's a dirty player. Ignorant recklessness is still dirty.
Almost everything he does is not dirty. And if you're going to call the door thing a dirty play, well....

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03-10-2013, 03:14 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
Almost everything he does is not dirty. And if you're going to call the door thing a dirty play, well....
Okay, fine, almost every penalty he commits is a dirty penalty. I don't get it, there is no need for a dichotomy, liking Kaleta, appreciating his rule, and calling him what he is are not mutually exclusive things.

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03-10-2013, 06:10 PM
  #240
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Criminal,

In general, people need to be careful of the "NHL reputation" equivalent of selection bias in statistics when viewing Kaleta.

I'm not sure Kaleta's any dirtier than other so-called (and often justifiably so) dirty players. And I'm not saying this in a condescending way, but I've been watching NHL hockey longer than you've been alive.

For example, Mike Peca left his skates for probably 85% of the open-ice hits he made during his career. That's supposed to be illegal. Old video - you can see him routinely launching himself 4-6" up before impact. I don't recall him ever being called for it. Was Mike Peca dirty? If he wasn't the Sabre captain, and less talented, would he have been called for it?

I agree Kaleta has been justifably penalized and punished in the past for selected antics. I also believe he is actually a very smart-with-the-puck hockey player, who plays with consistent effort, and to the maximum of his abilities and skills, and those skills and abilities have grown substantially since he entered the league. I can't say that last sentence about more than a couple Sabres over the past handful of years.

As for the Richards incident, I can't believe Richards attempted the play he did with the balance / positioning he had. He looked like me on skates. No excuse for Kaleta's love-pat, but that's a total non-call if Richards had any semblance of balance during that play.

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03-10-2013, 07:33 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar View Post
Okay, fine, almost every penalty he commits is a dirty penalty. I don't get it, there is no need for a dichotomy, liking Kaleta, appreciating his rule, and calling him what he is are not mutually exclusive things.
Because you're not calling him what he is. Very few of Kaleta's hits and/or penalties are dirty in any way.

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03-10-2013, 07:42 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
Because you're not calling him what he is. Very few of Kaleta's hits and/or penalties are dirty in any way.
Since 2010-2011

Roughing - 56 PIM
Charging - 14
High Sticking - 6
Kneeing - 2
Boarding - 2
Cross Checking - 2
Elbowing - 0
Slashing - 0
Check to Head - 0
Attempt to Injure - 0

Interference - 8
Unsportsmanlike - 6
Goalie Interference - 4
Hooking - 2
Holding - 0
Delay of Game - 0
Holding the Stick - 0
Diving - 0
Instigator - 0
Throwing Stick - 0

Would point out that no one has more charging PIM in that span and only one player (Neil) has more roughing PIM and Kaleta has played about 40 fewer games than both. Dirty doesn't mean intentionally trying to injure someone, it includes doing things that are reckless or dangerous.

How many players have more suspensions than him?
He's been caught headbutting MULTIPLE TIMES. What evidence do you have that paints him as not dirty?

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03-10-2013, 08:41 PM
  #243
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03-10-2013, 09:07 PM
  #244
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Richards hit aside, he's been better this season. If that becomes the new norm, I can revise my opinion accordingly, but right now he's right up there with some of the worst.

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