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Red Wings in 10th - Time Is Now

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Old
03-05-2013, 04:22 PM
  #26
stratego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDrake View Post
I like where the team is at Ken Holland said, I like where the team is at.
While I don't think anyone is encouraged by what Ken Holland says in the article, you'd have to be a pretty big idiot to ever believe what a GM says to a guy writing an article about their impending deadline strategy. Or anything at all during the season, really. What a GM says, and what a GM does are often opposites.

He's looking for a forward.

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Old
03-05-2013, 04:29 PM
  #27
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The team should be very good when healthy, somewhere around 4th or 5th best in the conference. People hate Samuelsson and Bertuzzi, but they're good for 15 goals/40 points and are a hell of a lot better than Cleary and Abdelkader. Ideal lineup when healthy:

Filppula-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Franzen-Zetterberg-Brunner
Tatar-Helm-Samuelsson
Tootoo-Emmerton-Bertuzzi
(Andersson, Eaves, Abdelkader, Cleary, Miller)

Kronwall-Ericsson
Smith-Quincey
Kindl-Colaiacovo
(Lashoff, Wite)

Howard
Gustavsson

That team is not bad at all. Obviously we'll never be lucky enough for the forward corps to look like that, but we can dream. Get a guy like Yandle or Bouwmeester at the deadline and they'd have a legitimate chance at the Cup. I'm not worried; the only thing I'm worried about is whether they actually get healthy.

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03-05-2013, 04:36 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
The better question is: When is the last time a coach has gone 5 years between Stanley Cups on the same team when he's lost talent every single year including 3 of their top 4 defensemen and replaced them with nothing.

It would be amazing how quickly Babcock would 'find his voice' if Holland got him some talent.
that's the thing, you need to always be bringing in fresh blood who are new and find his approach fresh to buy into the system. With Bowman, even his voice was likely getting a bit stale with the team, but then all of a sudden Holland gave him

Hasek
Robitaille
Hull

and a young talented rookie in Datsyuk

I'm not sure if there were others, but that's still 4 significant players.

The fresh new blood this season was

Samuelsson
Quincey (last trade deadline)
Brunner
Tootoo

possibly Tatar can be this year's datsyuk if he gets to stay in the lineup

for most part I think those players are all playing well under Babcock, the only real mistake I see, if we got a real talented player who could be healthy in the top 6 instead of Samuelsson, this team could be pretty dynamite still, though that would mean Tatar might not be the rookie in the lineup if that were the case

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Old
03-05-2013, 04:53 PM
  #29
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Not the end of the world..YET!

With the exception of the top 2 seeds (Chicago and Anaheim) you can expect to see a tight (~10 point) race for the remaining 6 slots. A 48 game season will make for some last few games of make it or break it circumstances for many teams in both conferences. It will certainly be a tight race at the end to make the playoffs, and you can bet Detroit will be in that race unless they buckle down and play consistent for the second half of the season. The wings are in 10th but if you look at the standings DETROIT IS ONLY 2pts OUT OF 3rd. That's a regulation win and we are tied for 3rd. A lot of teams are struggling so its not the endo of the world YET.

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Old
03-05-2013, 05:03 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
The problem is players like Datsyuk and Zetterberg will never let that happen. They are too talented and care too much about winning to allow the team to get that bad.

I remember seeing a video where Babcock saw Z and Datsyuk working out hours after everybody else went home and he asked them to slow down because they were playing the Blues tomorrow night. They responded by saying they were getting ready for the playoffs.

Players like Datsyuk and Zetterberg don't play for the regular season.
I think it wil be a tight race till the end. I am not so sure the Hawks and Ducks are running away either. They might hit the wall and injuries and then ...

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Old
03-05-2013, 05:03 PM
  #31
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Wings cant be third.

Top three seeds go to division winders.

Highest they can get is the 4th seed.

@ 14ari13

Wings aren't catching the Hawks. It would take a historic effort from both the Wings and the Hawks for that to happen. A historic collapse and a historic comeback.

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Old
03-05-2013, 05:10 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeghoul View Post
The team should be very good when healthy, somewhere around 4th or 5th best in the conference. People hate Samuelsson and Bertuzzi, but they're good for 15 goals/40 points and are a hell of a lot better than Cleary and Abdelkader. Ideal lineup when healthy:

Filppula-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Franzen-Zetterberg-Brunner
Tatar-Helm-Samuelsson
Tootoo-Emmerton-Bertuzzi
(Andersson, Eaves, Abdelkader, Cleary, Miller)

Kronwall-Ericsson
Smith-Quincey
Kindl-Colaiacovo
(Lashoff, Wite)

Howard
Gustavsson

That team is not bad at all. Obviously we'll never be lucky enough for the forward corps to look like that, but we can dream. Get a guy like Yandle or Bouwmeester at the deadline and they'd have a legitimate chance at the Cup. I'm not worried; the only thing I'm worried about is whether they actually get healthy.
I think you need to consider that Bert and Helm may not be back this year, and if they are, will not be what they once were.

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Old
03-05-2013, 05:35 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
To me, it doesn't matter anymore. Babcock's time is up.
Tell me when the last time a coach went 5 years between Cups in the NHL on the same team?

Do you have a belief that Babcock is the guy who is going to not only turn the team around, but turn it into a Stanley Cup contender?

I don't.

I see a coach who knows he has a voice issue. And once it's gone, it's gone for good.

He'll be a great coach, but not with Detroit.

In the meantime, I still want to make the playoffs.
...and you would do this by firing Babcock now and replacing him with Renney? Good luck with that.

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03-05-2013, 05:56 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
Sometimes there's a man... I won't say a hero, 'cause, what's a hero? But sometimes, there's a man. And I'm talkin' about Dan Cleary here. Sometimes, there's a man, well, he's the man for his time and place. He fits right in there. And that's Dan Cleary, in Detroit.

vladdy, you're out of your element!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bench View Post
Firing Tippett was the biggest mistake Dallas has made in some time. Neither coach since has even come within a fraction of getting the best from the team.

When you fire a coach for the sake of change, all I'm saying is, be careful what you wish for. Lots of us following Dallas thought the team needed a change but it's been pretty miserable since and astonishingly clear it was the PLAYERS that were the problem. Cue all the core veterans being shipped out since and for the first time the team looks like they have a fighting chance under a far inferior coach to Tippett.
agree

i always like tippett, and was not sure why dallas fired him. did nieuwendyk fire tippett? if so, that combined with the terrible trade of james neal make him look bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
2 points separate, but you're not really thinking it through very well.

1. Wings have played a lot more home games than road games, and the Wing's road record is terrible.

2. Wings have played more games than pretty much every other team. So yeah, we're "in the race" but that's only because other teams have 1-3 games in hand on us. If they all played those games, we could be 4-6 points out of the playoffs, easily.

3. This is a shortened season, less time to make up points. We're almost 1/2 way through the season.

All that means is that looking at "2 points" and saying the Wings are right in it is stupidly deceptive. Wings are further out than that. They are benefiting from home games and more games played.
yep

very precarious position

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Old
03-05-2013, 06:14 PM
  #35
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I would say that the schedule is soft this week and then gets brutal the rest of the way, but the Wings seem to play like **** against terrible teams and play pretty well against good teams. So who the hell knows.

I just hope that if they're going to miss the playoffs, they do so spectacularly. They need to miss badly enough that they can sell some dead weight at the deadline and get a better crack at Seth Jones.

That's if they're going to miss the playoffs. Personally I think they'll sneak in and get pasted in the 1st round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine View Post
Lindy Ruff
I think Ruff is a good coach, but the dude has never won anything and only got close when Hasek carried him there.

He would get about two seconds of leeway before the same people calling for Babcock's head started calling for his.

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Old
03-05-2013, 06:47 PM
  #36
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I think Ruff is a good coach, but the dude has never won anything and only got close when Hasek carried him there.

He would get about two seconds of leeway before the same people calling for Babcock's head started calling for his.
I just threw out his name because I saw Cap'n Bobby ask who was a coach that stuck with a team without winning a cup within a 5 year window. Wasn't he with the Sabres for upwards of 20 years? Seemed like a pretty obvious example so I just randomly threw it out there. I don't personally think much of him as a coach. I guess we may potentially be looking at him, though, right? If Babs really does go?

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03-05-2013, 08:26 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
To me, it doesn't matter anymore. Babcock's time is up.
Tell me when the last time a coach went 5 years between Cups in the NHL on the same team?

Do you have a belief that Babcock is the guy who is going to not only turn the team around, but turn it into a Stanley Cup contender?

I don't.

I see a coach who knows he has a voice issue. And once it's gone, it's gone for good.

He'll be a great coach, but not with Detroit.

In the meantime, I still want to make the playoffs.
I think you are confusing the NHL with SEC football.

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Old
03-05-2013, 08:48 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine View Post
I just threw out his name because I saw Cap'n Bobby ask who was a coach that stuck with a team without winning a cup within a 5 year window. Wasn't he with the Sabres for upwards of 20 years? Seemed like a pretty obvious example so I just randomly threw it out there. I don't personally think much of him as a coach. I guess we may potentially be looking at him, though, right? If Babs really does go?
He'd probably be on the list. Tough to tell if they would go with the crusty veteran coach or the OHL hotshot coach. There have been a ton of those completely unproven guys hired lately, probably chasing after the success the Pens had with Bylsma. Problem is Bylsma's pretty much the only one that's had any success.

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Old
03-05-2013, 08:56 PM
  #39
WingedWheel1987
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Wings are in 4th place

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Old
03-05-2013, 09:09 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
I think you are confusing the NHL with SEC football.
I don't watch SEC football.

In college football, you can win all the time. You're changing players ever 2-3and-4 years.

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Old
03-05-2013, 09:12 PM
  #41
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It's hilarious you guys want Babcock to continue contending for cups every year with completely not acknowledging the fact that his roster has got consistenly thinner since 2009, and that is someone elses job.

If you're going to blame someone, or lobby for someone to get fired, make it the job who has not done his job well recently. Babcock is doing very well given what little he has. Getting mad at him for not being at the top of the conference is like getting mad at someone for losing the Datyona 500 driving a Toyota Prius. Makes no sense. He doesn't have the tools he needs.

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03-05-2013, 10:45 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Silver lining: "We now know without a doubt that Abdelkader sucks."

Lesson learned
I got a pretty good laugh out of this

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Old
03-06-2013, 12:42 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
It's hilarious you guys want Babcock to continue contending for cups every year with completely not acknowledging the fact that his roster has got consistenly thinner since 2009, and that is someone elses job.

If you're going to blame someone, or lobby for someone to get fired, make it the job who has not done his job well recently. Babcock is doing very well given what little he has. Getting mad at him for not being at the top of the conference is like getting mad at someone for losing the Datyona 500 driving a Toyota Prius. Makes no sense. He doesn't have the tools he needs.
Excuses.

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Old
03-06-2013, 01:01 AM
  #44
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That crap about firing Babcock should be in the crappy thread about firing Babcock...
The team seems to be overachieving, although any team with D and Z should be competitive. When healthy, they will be a top 5 team in the West. Its all about health.

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Old
03-06-2013, 01:39 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Wings cant be third.

Top three seeds go to division winders.

Highest they can get is the 4th seed.

@ 14ari13

Wings aren't catching the Hawks. It would take a historic effort from both the Wings and the Hawks for that to happen. A historic collapse and a historic comeback.
I do not think anyone is catching up with the Hawks, in any case not the Wings for sure, but I am saying they might be hit by injuries and then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Wings are in 4th place
We were for a couple of hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
It's hilarious you guys want Babcock to continue contending for cups every year with completely not acknowledging the fact that his roster has got consistenly thinner since 2009, and that is someone elses job.

If you're going to blame someone, or lobby for someone to get fired, make it the job who has not done his job well recently. Babcock is doing very well given what little he has. Getting mad at him for not being at the top of the conference is like getting mad at someone for losing the Datyona 500 driving a Toyota Prius. Makes no sense. He doesn't have the tools he needs.
Holland has not done much to improve this team.

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Old
03-10-2013, 07:18 PM
  #46
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So, it stings more, coming off back-to-back losses to the BJs, but we got the 5 points in 8 games. Sucks because we started with 4 in two games.

The Red Wings have 29 points in 26 games. As of this moment, they are in 4th place, but everyone below them has 1-2-and-3 games in hand, and there are 8 teams who are just 3 points back.

Overall, the Red Wings record is 12-14.
At home they are 9-7.
On the road they are 3-7.

And now we go on the road.
The Wings need to average a point per game on the road.

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Old
03-10-2013, 07:21 PM
  #47
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Nobody outside of the Ducks and Hawks can get any separation from the pack. The last 20 games are going to be wild and have lots of leapfrogging on a daily basis.

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03-10-2013, 07:31 PM
  #48
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Nobody outside of the Ducks and Hawks can get any separation from the pack. The last 20 games are going to be wild and have lots of leapfrogging on a daily basis.
Yep. But you also don't want to far too far behind.
If the Wings don't improve their road record, they're toast. Plain and simple.

I think they will.

One team I expect to start pulling away soon is the Blues. If they can keep winning on the road, they'll get their act together at home.

I'm still expecting to finish in the 6 to 10 range.

We may be catching a break with our Northwest conference swing. That conference sucks this year.

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03-10-2013, 07:31 PM
  #49
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We will NEVER get back to scoring unless that 2nd line is scrapped and redone. You can't win much less try to make a run for the playoffs with 1 (ONE) scoring line. I mean is Babcock BRAIN DEAD? He's taken Datsyuk out of every game that he has played that line.

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Old
03-10-2013, 07:35 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Yep. But you also don't want to far too far behind.
If the Wings don't improve their road record, they're toast. Plain and simple.

I think they will.

One team I expect to start pulling away soon is the Blues. If they can keep winning on the road, they'll get their act together at home.

I'm still expecting to finish in the 6 to 10 range.

We may be catching a break with our Northwest conference swing. That conference sucks this year.
All of this is exactly part of the NHL's master plan. More teams in the playoff hunt mean more fans in more cities care down the stretch. It also gives bubble teams a better chance of getting into the playoffs and spurring a fanbase who may not see many to hit some playoff games.

It's kind of a huge downer for Detroit, but for the rest of the league it's certainly creating some better drama.

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