So is Cole our #2 despite being 4th in minutes played.
Unfortunately yes. He is playing against the top lines of other teams. That is why in my opinion we need to upgrade that position. If shatty or Petro could play the left side, again this would be a moot discussion since we would be able to spend the money on the top pairing. However again just my opinion spending 5 million on a defenseman that does not always play against the top lines of other teams is a luxury a budget team does not have.
Pietrangelo is way overrated he is a tall version of Steve Duchene.
1.) Who is Steve Duchene? Do you mean Steve Duchesne? The guy who had career highs of 25 goals, 62 assists, and 82 points (PPG right there.) The guy who is a career +88 despite being considered a defensive liability? The guy who put up 752 points in 1113 regular season games (a 0.68 PPG average, or roughly 55 points a season)? The guy who scored 77 points in 121 career playoff games (a 0.64 PPG average)? If Petro is as good now as Duchesne was for his career, that isn't really the bad thing that you make it out to be.
2.) If Petro is as good, right now at 23, as Duchesne was for his career, does that mean that Pietrangelo is fully developed at age 23 and has no room for improvement?
3.) We all saw how Pietrangelo played last year. Why weren't you claiming he was nothing but a tall Duchesne then? Is it perhaps because you are blowing things out of proportion?
4.) Somethings to keep in mind this season when watching Petro: Pietrangelo has played with Jackman, Colaiacovo, Cole, Huskins, and Redden as his partner in the past 100 games. Also keep in mind that Petro wasn't playing overseas during the lock-out. Also keep in mind that so far we are ONLY 21 games into the season. Also that he is only 23.
What I'm saying, is that if Pietrangelo looks, at age 23, after an extended time off, with no training camp, and no regular defensive partner as good as Steve Duchesne did for his career, we could be much, MUCH worse off.
And Pietrangelo deserved EVERY bit of praise he got around here for his play last season. Pretty much everyone around here also admits he hasn't played as well this year, so why do you keep harping on him?
And a friendly note: We don't take kindly to trolls around here. You've posted that same Petro = Duchesne in a couple of threads in no way adding to the conversation. Stop. Just stop.
1.) Who is Steve Duchene? Do you mean Steve Duchesne? The guy who had career highs of 25 goals, 62 assists, and 82 points (PPG right there.) The guy who is a career +88 despite being considered a defensive liability? The guy who put up 752 points in 1113 regular season games (a 0.68 PPG average, or roughly 55 points a season)? The guy who scored 77 points in 121 career playoff games (a 0.64 PPG average)? If Petro is as good now as Duchesne was for his career, that isn't really the bad thing that you make it out to be.
2.) If Petro is as good, right now at 23, as Duchesne was for his career, does that mean that Pietrangelo is fully developed at age 23 and has no room for improvement?
3.) We all saw how Pietrangelo played last year. Why weren't you claiming he was nothing but a tall Duchesne then? Is it perhaps because you are blowing things out of proportion?
4.) Somethings to keep in mind this season when watching Petro: Pietrangelo has played with Jackman, Colaiacovo, Cole, Huskins, and Redden as his partner in the past 100 games. Also keep in mind that Petro wasn't playing overseas during the lock-out. Also keep in mind that so far we are ONLY 21 games into the season. Also that he is only 23.
What I'm saying, is that if Pietrangelo looks, at age 23, after an extended time off, with no training camp, and no regular defensive partner as good as Steve Duchesne did for his career, we could be much, MUCH worse off.
And Pietrangelo deserved EVERY bit of praise he got around here for his play last season. Pretty much everyone around here also admits he hasn't played as well this year, so why do you keep harping on him?
And a friendly note: We don't take kindly to trolls around here. You've posted that same Petro = Duchesne in a couple of threads in no way adding to the conversation. Stop. Just stop.
Thank you for correcting my misspelling of Mr. Duchesne. I have always had the Duchesne opinion of Petro has nothing to do with his overrated play last season. Could it be you are afraid he topped out ala EJ?
Why do you continue to say that Petro's play last year was overrated? He finished fourth in Norris voting with no name recognition. I can make a strong argument as to why he should have won. I think he was rated fairly accurately last season. Has he played at the same level this season? No. But nobody here is claiming that. At all.
I'll ask again: If you have always had the opinion that Petro is comparable to Duchesne, why didn't you voice that opinion last year? I see you have been a member since 2009.
I'll add a follow up: If Petro's play last year was comparable to Duchesne, then how can it still be comparable when Petro isn't playing at the level he did last season? (I'll give you a hint: Petro played better defense last season than Duchesne ever did.)
I'm not afraid he has already topped out. Nor do I believe that EJ has topped out yet.
If you want to make the case that Petro had a career year last year, and we shouldn't expect it going forward, that would be one thing. I'd disagree, but I could understand where you were coming from.
But when national hockey pundits rank him #4 in the entire league, it is hard to take you seriously when you say he was overrated by Blues fans last season.
If:
Petro last year == Steve Duchesne
and
Petro this year == Steve Duchesne
then
Petro last year == Petro this year
and that clearly isn't the case. Your logic simply doesn't work. Or put another way:
If:
Petro this year =/= Petro last year
and
Petro this year == Steve Duchesne
then
Petro last year =/= Steve Duchesne
Petro looks like he's playing injured to me. He doesn't have the same burst he used to, in fact, he has no burst this year. He gets beat to the puck way more than he did his first couple seasons. I'm seeing a guy who can't do the same things he's used to doing and it's causing his play to slip a bit.
False. Shattenkirk is a mess in his own end. He's essentially turning into Phil Housley or Steve Duchesne.
Love his offense...but if he's commanding big bucks (more than $4.5M/year), I'd be willing to shop him around the league. The kid needs to figure out how to play in his own zone.
False. Shattenkirk is a mess in his own end. He's essentially turning into Phil Housley or Steve Duchesne.
Love his offense...but if he's commanding big bucks (more than $4.5M/year), I'd be willing to shop him around the league. The kid needs to figure out how to play in his own zone.
False. Shattenkirk is a mess in his own end. He's essentially turning into Phil Housley or Steve Duchesne.
Love his offense...but if he's commanding big bucks (more than $4.5M/year), I'd be willing to shop him around the league. The kid needs to figure out how to play in his own zone.
He's not a MESS, but he's not as good as Pietro, even shriveled 2013 Pietro.
Nearly all of the Blues look worse than they did last year, though, so it's awkward and misleading to pick apart guys who are still playing okay overall - all of whom look better when their teammates are performing, too.
Shattenkirk's "sloppy" play began when Jackman was taken away from him...
Yep...and Petro's suddenly solidified when Jacks was made his partner. Funny how that works.
Every other LHD on this team besides #5 is really struggling. Cole and Russell are borderline useless. Redden has been better lately...but he's not a long-term solution to anything. The Blues really need to hit a home-run on one of their LD draft-picks. Maybe Eronen can be a Tobias Enstrom type find...
I'd love to see Lindbohm or Edmundson develop into a shut-down defender and really solidify the overall depth on the blueline.
Last edited by Stealth JD: 03-08-2013 at 04:27 PM.
Shattenkirk is not a #2 D man, he just happens to be a right handed shot with Pie one of the best D men in the league also being a right handed shot so Shatty plays on a seperate pairing. They are both top young D men that will only get better.
Shattenkirk's "sloppy" play began when Jackman was taken away from him...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth JD
Yep...and Petro's suddenly solidified when Jacks was made his partner. Funny how that works.
Absolutely! Similar to what I was saying earlier in the thread, Barret Jackman categorically elevates his defense partner's play(which is not a new phenomenon). Here are the statistics since the Jackman/Shattenkirk pairing was severed(admittedly, this is a small sample size)...
Pietrangelo:
G: 2
A: 2
P: 4
+/-: 3
Goals on ice for: 8
Goals on ice against: 4
Shattenkirk:
G: 0
A: 0
P: 0
+/-: -3
Goals on ice for: 0
Goals on ice against: 4
Jackman:
G: 0
A: 3
P: 3
+/-: 4
Goals on ice for: 6
Goals on ice against: 2
